Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

Status
Not open for further replies.
[YT]5P8mlF8KT6I[/YT]
[YT]vrKfz8NjEzU[/YT]
[YT]hWJeqgG3Tl8[/YT]
[YT]y15UGhhRd6M[/YT]
[YT]WPA-8A4zf2c[/YT]
[YT]vFGU6qvkmTI[/YT]
[YT]boj9ccV9htk[/YT]
 
Do you have anything to base this claim on at all?

First of all, one scientist does not speak for all of them.
Which is why you can always find a scientist disagreeing with global warming.

Secondly, without knowing what his expertise was we cannot evaluate the claim properly.
It was filmed in the location where he was talking about so I'm guessing he's an "expert" in the field.

Third, you haven't stated which year he made the claim - which means we can't fact-check this without wading through pages of articles.
It was in the last 2 years.


Meterologists (those who study weather) are not the same as climatologists (those who study the climate).
If the Sunday's weather cannot be predicted, how can they be so sure of something 20-30 years from now?
 
Which is why you can always find a scientist disagreeing with global warming.

What's your point?

It was filmed in the location where he was talking about so I'm guessing he's an "expert" in the field.

Unfortunately, that's not a definitive conclusion.

It was in the last 2 years.

Okay.

If the Sunday's weather cannot be predicted, how can they be so sure of something 20-30 years from now?

Thank you for completely ignoring what I said :whatever:


The weather is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from the climate.

The CLIMATE is what's changing.


If you want an in-depth discussion on the differences between the two, look at the **first** video I posted.
 
If the Sunday's weather cannot be predicted, how can they be so sure of something 20-30 years from now?
Larger trends are easier to characterize and predict than small-scale, sporadic changes. It's a pretty simple concept.
 
That is an interesting reading of the situation I had no considered before.
Well, again, the accuracy of that model has been hotly disputed (if it hasn't been already discounted). We are in an interglacial period, but as far as whether we would have expected rising or falling temperatures, I'm not entirely sure (probably rising).

So what I said really needs to be taken with a boulder of salt, and the debate is still open in my view. I'm not one to say with 100% certainty that anthropogenic carbon is entirely responsible for these trends, but I have no doubt we're having an effect. This is primarily because:

1) CO2 is, in fact, a greenhouse gas.

2) Humans are by far the largest source of carbon emissions on the planet. There's a myth that volcanoes release more CO2 than human activities, and that is completely false.
 
Last edited:
I will never believe in GW, you hear all the time about people finding faults with the theory.
 
Well the thing is.....GW isn't a theory.....it's a fact, its a natural phenomenon......which is a good thing, considering I'm not really looking forward to a 5th Ice Age, even though I do enjoy the movies.

How much of an impact human's have on GW, THAT is the theory....
 
I will never believe in GW, you hear all the time about people finding faults with the theory.
First, you mean anthropogenic global warming.

Secondly, what faults? The only fault that I personally haven't been able to counter thus far is that CO2 spikes occur AFTER warming begins, but most other "faults" are merely pseudo-scientific mutterings of people who don't have a clue what they're talking about.

So I'd be interested to hear specific examples. That's what this thread is for, after all.
 
Is there anyway we can see a copy of the Climate Change treaty that Obama is supposed to sign in December?
 
If that's it, thanks. I can't download it at work but will when I get home.
 
Hardly new news. Carbon credits are ********.

Look whether you believe in AGW or not, I think it's more productive you take the money to help alleviate and unburden entrepreneurs and engineers to do their work. But the UN thinks their know better than the innovators who created tangible things with "teH policies". More on, paying money to feel less guilty for emitting carbon is ******ed. It doesn't change the fact you polluted. It would actually be more productive to... reduce it. Reality does not allow for such insane video game cheats.
 
First, you mean anthropogenic global warming.

Secondly, what faults? The only fault that I personally haven't been able to counter thus far is that CO2 spikes occur AFTER warming begins, but most other "faults" are merely pseudo-scientific mutterings of people who don't have a clue what they're talking about.

So I'd be interested to hear specific examples. That's what this thread is for, after all.
Will I was not very clear in my post. I believe that their are many faults with the idea that Humans are making the Planet hotter. IMO one that that really set me off was when Gore was asked a question about a recent study that found faults with his movie and someone in the background was heard saying kill the mic. IMO I have never liked Gore and use his Gobal Warming theory as a way to put him down.
 
Soooo how about the 60 meg file that was obtained from haxoring the Global Climate Center, and all those admission about tampering of climate data.
 
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/...ently-been-hacked-hundreds-of-files-released/

http://www.investigatemagazine.com/australia/latestissue.pdf

http://market-ticker.denninger.net/archives/1648-Global-Warming-SCAM-HackLeak-FLASH.html

Apparently a "Global Climate Center" was hacked and the contents have been posted to the Internet. A ZIP file exceeding 60MB and containing a huge number of emails and other documents has been posted worldwide.
Original speculation as to whether the files posted were legitimate or some sort of spoof appears to now be confirmed as legitimate:
“It was a hacker. We were aware of this about three or four days ago that someone had hacked into our system and taken and copied loads of data files and emails.”
I have not had time to read all of the material yet (there are over a thousand files involved!) but what I have skimmed looks VERY damning. Contained within the documents are what appear to be admissions of intentional tampering with data as well as intentional falsification of results to "show" man-made global warming.
One of the emails says:
"I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline."
That is, to hide a decline in global temperatures.
It gets better. Another message, this one allegedly from 2000:
It was good to see you again yesterday - if briefly. One particular thing you said - and we agreed - was about the IPCC reports and the broader climate negotiations were working to the globalisation agenda driven by organisations like the WTO. So my first question is do you have anything written or published, or know of anything particularly on this subject, which talks about this in more detail?
Oh, so it's not about the planet getting warmer, but rather is a convenient means of advancing an agenda that has already been pre-determined?
Then there's this:
In my (perhaps too
> > harsh)
> > view, there have been a number of dishonest presentations of model
> > results by individual authors and by IPCC.
This is why I still use
> > results from MAGICC to compare with observed temperatures. At least
> > here I can assess how sensitive matches are to sensitivity and
> > forcing assumptions/uncertainties.
(Pardon the formatting, it's text-mode email 'yanno.)
Guess who that was addressed to? Michael Mann. You know, the (infamous and now discredited) "Mann Hockey Stick"?
Guess where that email originated? NASA.
Yes, I have the file. So do a few million other people.
There's enough evidence in there, in my opinion, of outrageously fraudulent conduct to make this the scandal of the 20th and 21st century.
Sorry folks, there's no science here - this is, from what I see, a massive and outrageous fraud, and now that the documents have been confirmed as authentic it is time to pull the curtain down on this crap and start locking up all of the proponents - starting with AL GORE.
Here are some interesting "meta statistics" on the documents, and the number of times the words referenced appear:

  • Fraud: 79
  • Falsify: 6
  • Inflate: 14
  • Conceal: 5
  • Hide: 19
Just for starters.
If you think that's bad, you might like this - from the file "ipcc-tar-master.rtf":
General Comments

The idea that climate without human intervention can only undergo “natural variability”, and that “climate change” can only result from human activity is false and fallacious. It is in conflict with all that we know of evolution and geology. It is simply wrong to assume that “ climate change” automatically implies human influence on the climate.

This fallacy is embraced by the Framework Convention on Climate Change, but the IPCC (Footnote to “Summary for Policymakers. Page 1) claim that they are prepared to accept “natural variability” as “climate change”. They are, however, unwilling to accept the truth, which is that climate can change without human intervention.

....

47 out of 91 models listed in Chapter 9 assume that carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is increasing at the rate of 1% a year when the measured rate of increase, for the past 33 years, has been 0.4% a year. The assumption of false figures in models in order to boost future projections is fraudulent. What other figures are falsely exaggerated in the same way?
Update 12:58 - Oh oh.... From Phil Jones who run this place... and its recent:
From: Phil Jones <[email protected]>
To: "Michael E. Mann" <[email protected]>, "raymond s. bradley" <rbradley@geo.
umass.edu>
Subject: A couple of things
Date: Fri May 9 09:53:41 2008
Cc: "Caspar Ammann" <[email protected]>
....
2. You can delete this attachment if you want. Keep this quiet also, but this is the person who is putting in FOI requests for all emails Keith and Tim have written and received re Ch 6 of AR4. We think we've found a way around this.
And then there's this...
From: Phil Jones <[email protected]>
To: "Michael E. Mann" <[email protected]>
Subject: IPCC & FOI
Date: Thu May 29 11:04:11 2008
Mike,
Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4? Keith will do likewise. He's not in at the moment - minor family crisis.
Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don't have his new email address.
We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.
I see that CA claim they discovered the 1945 problem in the Nature paper!!
Cheers
Phil
One has to wonder: was the "way around it" mentioned in the first correspondence to intentionally destroy the data FOI'd?
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/09/29/yamal_scandal/print.html
A scientific scandal is casting a shadow over a number of recent peer-reviewed climate papers.

At least eight papers purporting to reconstruct the historical temperature record times may need to be revisited, with significant implications for contemporary climate studies, the basis of the IPCC&#8217;s assessments. A number of these involve senior climatologists at the British climate research centre CRU at the University East Anglia. In every case, peer review failed to pick up the errors.
 
Last edited:
So far the only major mainstream medias that are reporting about this are:

Wall Street Journal
Fox News
Guardian
BBC
Telegraph

Waiting for MSNBC, CNN, CBS

My favorite parts of the email is how there is active talk about suppressing skeptical counter-factual papers to the global warming movement. Wooo weeee
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"