Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

[teseract]

And that's how socialism came about. Total Socialism is Bad.

Right, but socialism mixed with capitalism, ah, now that's a different cow, isn't it?

 

[Steve Rogers]

"Everyone should be allowed to reproduce once. That's it."

Man + Woman = baby

for that one child, the man has reproduced once; for that one child, the woman has reproduced once. according to your wishes, they both have reproduced once. get it? this isn't complicated stuff here.

This coming from someone who could not even define the word reproduced when asked to. Yeah, I take what you have to say to heart.

 

[Sandman138]

This coming from someone who could not even define the word reproduced when asked to. Yeah, I take what you have to say to heart.

He's going to come back telling you that you are ignorant of the difference between what a man can do and what he chooses to do.

 

[Mysterio]

Then you do agree with me, that government is incompetent and private business should not be let off the reign so easy because they aren't exactly know for their trustworthyness in terms of business practices?

i mostly prescribe to your blanket statement about government, but not to business.

 

[Mysterio]

This coming from someone who could not even define the word reproduced when asked to. Yeah, I take what you have to say to heart.

you make the mistake of confusing "can't" and "wouldn't." again, it was your construct, not mine. the burden was on you. but that was a nice attempt at dodging my response. better to just ignore it instead of responding to it.

 

[Steve Rogers]

He's going to come back telling you that you are ignorant of the difference between what a man can do and what he chooses to do.

Let him. I've explained one squared plus one squared to him countless times.
I can't force him to get it.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

which points would those be?

If you have to ask.....

 

[Mysterio]

If you have to ask.....

i haven't read the entire thread and have skimmed over a lot. i was asking for help. oh, well.

 

[SuBe]

Yeah, Sparky is here! Now we can really debate the facts.

 

[teseract]

i mostly prescribe to your blanket statement about government, but not to business.

hmmm, should I put that in the category of blind faith, even though there have been numerous accounts of private business doing shady practice?

It sounds to me like you wish private business and capitalism to be all good with flowers and sunshine but reality has given numerous examples to the contrary. There is nothing wrong with liking capitalism, heck I do that myself, I love to make money. However, it's also not wrong to admit that the system has its faults and problems that need to be addressed. It's simply realistic, no economic system is picture perfect as well as it isn't all evil with no redeeming qualities.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

i haven't read the entire thread and have skimmed over a lot. i was asking for help. oh, well.

simple.
my point was that Private enterprise cannot be trusted with looking after the welfare of the people.
you agreed with me, that inherently private enterprise would look after it's own interests with ferocity as is it's nature.
therefore I suggested that a regulatory organ, that in case would be the government would have to be in place in order for the private sector to remain in check.
both aspects are uniquely flawed but to eliminate either one is insane.
and health care should be free, because everyone deserves to live, not just those who can afford it.

 

[SuBe]

simple.
my point was that Private enterprise cannot be trusted with looking after the welfare of the people.
you agreed with me, that inherently private enterprise would look after it's own interests with ferocity as is it's nature.
therefore I suggested that a regulatory organ, that in case would be the government would have to be in place in order for the private sector to remain in check.
both aspects are uniquely flawed but to eliminate either one is insane.
and health care should be free, because everyone deserves to live, not just those who can afford it.

Health Care is not a right gaurenteed in the Constitution, there fore the Government has no right to provide it. Ever heard of Personal Responibility?

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Health Care is not a right gaurenteed in the Constitution, there fore the Government has no right to provide it. Ever heard of Personal Responibility?

no obligation you mean.
I don't see anything in your post that negates my argument that not only those who can afford to should be able to get health care.
personal responsibility has nothing to do with this.
what if a 23 year old who makes minimum wage gets cancer?
he'll not be able to afford the treatment or the meds easily ( if at all) what does that have to do with personal responsibility?
he should've told his cells to NOT go crazy and try to kill him?
I mean, seriously, personal responsibility? that's really not the answer.
to not die in a fire is not a right guaranteed by the constitution yet, explain firemen to me.

 

[SuBe]

no obligation you mean.
I don't see anything in your post that negates my argument that not only those who can afford to should be able to get health care.
personal responsibility has nothing to do with this.
what if a 23 year old who makes minimum wage gets cancer?
he'll not be able to afford the treatment or the meds easily ( if at all) what does that have to do with personal responsibility?
he should've told his cells to NOT go crazy and try to kill him?
I mean, seriously, personal responsibility? that's really not the answer.
to not die in a fire is not a right guaranteed by the constitution yet, explain firemen to me.

Why would this fictional 23 year old not apply himself before this date and work and built a resume that would get him a job that either has Health Benifets or afford it. Did this 23 year old slack off when he was in high school? Did this 23 Year Old make bad choices now the rest of society has to pick up after him? How about instead of Taxing everyone else for the few that decide that someone will always be there to protect them, you solve the problem from the start and increase competition in the schools to get productive members of society so this 23 year old isnt in a job flipping burgers or collecting movie ticket at that age, and actually applying himself at a better, more satisfying job? Anyway, what does this 23 year old have that he can sacrifice? Or is TV and a Cell Phone, iPod and going out and buying 2-3 new DVDs every tuesday a Constitutional Right?

But, this has nothing to do with the thread's topic.

 

[Carcharodon]

Why would this fictional 23 year old not apply himself before this date and work and built a resume that would get him a job that either has Health Benifets or afford it. Did this 23 year old slack off when he was in high school? Did this 23 Year Old make bad choices now the rest of society has to pick up after him? How about instead of Taxing everyone else for the few that decide that someone will always be there to protect them, you solve the problem from the start and increase competition in the schools to get productive members of society so this 23 year old isnt in a job flipping burgers or collecting movie ticket at that age, and actually applying himself at a better, more satisfying job? Anyway, what does this 23 year old have that he can sacrifice? Or is TV and a Cell Phone, iPod and going out and buying 2-3 new DVDs every tuesday a Constitutional Right?

But, this has nothing to do with the thread's topic.

What if said 23 year old is going to college in order to put himself in a position to get said better job? It has everything to do with thread's topic, actually: personal responsibility.

 

[Sandman138]

What if said 23 year old is going to college in order to put himself in a position to get said better job? It has everything to do with thread's topic, actually: personal responsibility.

This isn't a universal, but most colleges offer health insurance.

 

[SuBe]

What if said 23 year old is going to college in order to put himself in a position to get said better job? It has everything to do with thread's topic, actually: personal responsibility.

Then, isn't Said 23 Year Old, covered by his Parents Health Coverage?

 

[Carcharodon]

Then, isn't Said 23 Year Old, covered by his Parents Health Coverage?

Working to put himself through college. Orphan.

...

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Why would this fictional 23 year old not apply himself before this date and work and built a resume that would get him a job that either has Health Benifets or afford it. Did this 23 year old slack off when he was in high school? Did this 23 Year Old make bad choices now the rest of society has to pick up after him? How about instead of Taxing everyone else for the few that decide that someone will always be there to protect them, you solve the problem from the start and increase competition in the schools to get productive members of society so this 23 year old isnt in a job flipping burgers or collecting movie ticket at that age, and actually applying himself at a better, more satisfying job? Anyway, what does this 23 year old have that he can sacrifice? Or is TV and a Cell Phone, iPod and going out and buying 2-3 new DVDs every tuesday a Constitutional Right?

But, this has nothing to do with the thread's topic.

no, because whether you are ready to admit it or not, some people regardless of all circumstances will NOT have great jobs with benefits.
some people have to pump gas, some people have to toil in minimum wage jobs whose benefits wouldn't cover the cost of treatment.
but jobs that are integral to the functioning of society, all these people deserve the right to free health care.
some people are in debt for completely random stuff related to health care.
to say in a manner so cavalier "shouldn't have bought that ipod chump!" is insane, 300 dlls would never cover the cost of cancer treatment.
for instance I have friend whose son was working at Kragen autoparts.
one time while riding home from basketball practice the kid gets real pale and starts to have trouble breathing.
he had a small hole in his lung and thank go two days later he was recovering, he was also 25 dlls in debt.
and just so you know, many people like him, at 23 are still studying, and since apparently a right to a free education isn't in the constitution as well, by the time they are out of college some people are deep in debt.

now, again, how do you apply your "personal responsibility"and "free market economy" mentality to the problem of firemen and policemen?
what's the difference?

 

[SuBe]

Working to put himself through college. Orphan.

...

You make me Smile.

The Opranage doesn't have a health plan! Outrage!

 

[teseract]

Health Care is not a right gaurenteed in the Constitution, there fore the Government has no right to provide it. Ever heard of Personal Responibility?

Right to life, besides Health is something that is to a large factor not dependant on personal responsibility. Personal responsibilty is all nice and dandy, however when things go to the level of the existancial minimum personal responsibilty should not be an issue. It's unbecoming to a civil society when people are dying left and right because someone wants to keep the moral high ground.

 

[Sandman138]

Then, isn't Said 23 Year Old, covered by his Parents Health Coverage?

Where the **** do you live? I got cut off from that option the minute I turned 18.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

This isn't a universal, but most colleges offer health insurance.

but that's the thing isn't it.
that uncertainty.
what if said 23 year old CAN'T go to college right now, because hey, some people have different life paths than others.
what if said 23 year old have to take care of his family in part, because one of the members is sick and can't afford treatment.
you'd be surprised how much that happens.

 

[Mysterio]

hmmm, should I put that in the category of blind faith, even though there have been numerous accounts of private business doing shady practice?

no, you should put that in the category of not subscribing to blanket statements.

 

[Mysterio]

simple.
my point was that Private enterprise cannot be trusted with looking after the welfare of the people.
you agreed with me, that inherently private enterprise would look after it's own interests with ferocity as is it's nature.

no, i didn't agree with you on that. i said the goal and purpose of private enterprise is not benevolence and that you are judging a system by a standard in which it isn't meant to be judged. nor is private enterprise's goal "the welfare of the people." that is the people's goal, not government's and not businesses'.

and health care should be free, because everyone deserves to live, not just those who can afford it.

i strongly disagree.