Discussion: Global Warming and Other Environmental Issues

[Knightsaber Priss]

When it snows in Las Vegas can we really be sure of this Global Warming theory?

 

[The Senator]

When it snows in Las Vegas can we really be sure of this Global Warming theory?

Yes. When snow in Las Vegas becomes a regular occurrence, then you can be skeptical. Freak weather events like this occur all the time; but it is not a refutation or indicator of climate change unless it becomes a repetitive occurrence.

 

[Carcharodon]

Yeah, that's what really gets me. IncrediNate is a Christian who claims that the Earth exists because God created it for us to enjoy its treasures, yet we have destroyed the planet to a degree where we won't even have the basic treasures we were supposed to enjoy. And instead of believing that we should conserve our resources and do everything we can to prevent this emerging climate crisis, he thinks its perfectly fine for us to go on the way we are living, trashing the Earth and ruining its ability to sustain future generations.

So, I can't be too sure... but I believe IncrediNate is sinning with these beliefs.

Sinning or not, it's awfully contradictory to the principles and ideals he claims to uphold.

Even if HE is joking, this is a disturbing trend seen among the political right that I have a lot of trouble understanding. There's such a level of indifference to the issue among a group of people who (to a large extent) share IncrediNate's ideological views that I'm frequently astonished to be quite frank.

 

[Knightsaber Priss]

Yes. When snow in Las Vegas becomes a regular occurrence, then you can be skeptical. Freak weather events like this occur all the time; but it is not a refutation or indicator of climate change unless it becomes a repetitive occurrence.

Maybe I should pray for more snow on the West Coast then.

 

[Carcharodon]

Maybe I should pray for more snow on the West Coast then.

Please don't. I live in Oregon and I'm already snowed in, you jerk.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Burrrrrr! I'm in upstate New York right now and it is freezing here! Yeah, I know what you're saying, because it's cold in some places, that totally means global warming doesn't exist...

Oh, except the United States is in a nationwide drought, the Arctic ice sheet is separating, half of the earth's species are estimated to die out within the next one hundred years, and several countries are experiencing drastic water shortages... all of this, by the way, is linked to the changing climate...

So, because it got colder where you live, that doesn't mean climate change isn't real. That sort of thinking is representative of the worst anti-intellectualism I have ever come across on this topic.

Countries have been having water shortages for years man, it isn't just some new thing that has started happening in the last few years.

Britains worst drought on record was in the 70s. It must of been global warming back then as well!

 

[Ace of Knaves]

The sad thing is that it IS a game to many people. It amazes me that somebody who so firmly believes that this world was placed here specifically so that WE as a species could live could take its utter desecration with such levity.

It's like taking a gift directly from God, looking him in the face and telling him, "**** you, this is mine to do with whatever I damn well please."

Amazing. Then again, I'm sure you're just pulling my leg.

Or...fin.

Er...whatever.

Well to be honest man, when some one gives me a gift, I usually do what the **** I want with it.

I understand what you and Jmanspice are saying, and I agree with a lot of it. I'm not that stupid.

But the question is this. Is there actual proof that we, as a race, are effecting global warming that much? Who says this isn't just nature taking it's course? How did the dinosaurs die out? I'm sure they weren't polluting the earth and giving out carbon emissions.

And also, how can anyone prove that we, as a race, can do a damn thing to change any of this? People can have theories yea, no problems. But when people start telling me how to live my life in the hope that it will actually effect all this it kinda pisses me off.

 

[Galactus]

Even if humans are not responsible for global warming we are still responsible for turning this planet into one big junkyard, polluting the environments, cutting down the rain forests, bringing a lot of animals to the brink of extinction. And so on.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Even if humans are not responsible for global warming we are still responsible for turning this planet into one big junkyard, polluting the environments, cutting down the rain forests, bringing a lot of animals to the brink of extinction. And so on.

Yea man I'm not denying that, it is a disgrace. But what else are we supposed to do? Live like cave-men?

 

[DorkyFresh]

Even if humans are not responsible for global warming we are still responsible for turning this planet into one big junkyard, polluting the environments, cutting down the rain forests, bringing a lot of animals to the brink of extinction. And so on.

if there is anything that humans have done to contribute to the climate crisis, this would be the biggest problem. half of the world's rainforests are gone because of us.

 

[The Senator]

Countries have been having water shortages for years man, it isn't just some new thing that has started happening in the last few years.

Britains worst drought on record was in the 70s. It must of been global warming back then as well!

Actually, it probably was, since the effects of climate change have been accumulating since the mid-1800s when countries started to industrialize en masse... it's only getting worse, with every year that passes...

 

[The Senator]

Yea man I'm not denying that, it is a disgrace. But what else are we supposed to do? Live like cave-men?

Yeah, because reducing our impact on the environment automatically means we need to go back to the Neolithic era...

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Yeah, because reducing our impact on the environment automatically means we need to go back to the Neolithic era...

LOLZ. My tongue was firmly in cheek there man.

Why haven't you responded to my other posts?

 

[The Senator]

Well to be honest man, when some one gives me a gift, I usually do what the **** I want with it.

I understand what you and Jmanspice are saying, and I agree with a lot of it. I'm not that stupid.

But the question is this. Is there actual proof that we, as a race, are effecting global warming that much? Who says this isn't just nature taking it's course? How did the dinosaurs die out? I'm sure they weren't polluting the earth and giving out carbon emissions.

And also, how can anyone prove that we, as a race, can do a damn thing to change any of this? People can have theories yea, no problems. But when people start telling me how to live my life in the hope that it will actually effect all this it kinda pisses me off.

You are correct that climate change is a theory. But it is a theory 94% of scientists agree is true, and there is vast circumstantial evidence which suggests human development has accelerated the greenhouse effect.

This, of course, is not a theory on the same grounds as evolution. It is not one people can casually disagree with. If we don't do anything to combat climate change, the predicted environmental consequences will be extraordinary. The human race will suffer incredible losses, from health to economic losses.

Also, it doesn't make sense why we shouldn't reduce carbon emissions, whether people agree that global warming is a problem or not. Carbon emissions contribute to numerous health problems. Fossil fuels are limited and extremely hazardous to the overall ecosystem. We also need to change how we conduct businesses, from production to consumption, to reduce our carbon impact.

The planet is better off if we implement alternative energy technology and remake the way we design products, buildings, and infrastructure-- regardless of whether you believe global warming/ climate change is a legitimate threat or not.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

You are correct that climate change is a theory. But it is a theory 94% of scientists agree is true, and there is vast circumstantial evidence which suggests human development has accelerated the greenhouse effect.

This, of course, is not a theory on the same grounds as evolution. It is not one people can casually disagree with. If we don't do anything to combat climate change, the predicted environmental consequences will be extraordinary. The human race will suffer incredible losses, from health to economic losses.

Also, it doesn't make sense why we shouldn't reduce carbon emissions, whether people agree that global warming is a problem or not. Carbon emissions contribute to numerous health problems. Fossil fuels are limited and extremely hazardous to the overall ecosystem. We also need to change how we conduct businesses, from production to consumption, to reduce our carbon impact.

The planet is better off if we implement alternative energy technology and remake the way we design products, buildings, and infrastructure-- regardless of whether you believe global warming/ climate change is a legitimate threat or not.

Yea but thats just it man, I 100% agree with you that we should be finding new ways to do them things. Wholeheartedly.

And yes of course trying to combat it is better than going "Oh well, **** happens."

But I still believe that there is a chance that this is just the way it goes, that this is natures natural course.

The dinosaurs and that couldn't possibly effect climate change could they? So what happened to them?

Your a clever bloke, you must know that Africa and Europe were one land mass millions of years ago right? (might not be the right examples but you get what i'm saying). So what happened there then?

 

[The Senator]

Yea but thats just it man, I 100% agree with you that we should be finding new ways to do them things. Wholeheartedly.

And yes of course trying to combat it is better than going "Oh well, **** happens."

But I still believe that there is a chance that this is just the way it goes, that this is natures natural course.

The dinosaurs and that couldn't possibly effect climate change could they? So what happened to them?

Your a clever bloke, you must know that Africa and Europe were one land mass millions of years ago right? (might not be the right examples but you get what i'm saying). So what happened there then?

Why are you bringing the dinosaurs into this at all, considering no one knows definitively what happened to that species?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Why are you bringing the dinosaurs into this at all, considering no one knows definitively what happened to that species?

Well not dinosaurs, just the prehistoric age.

So what about the drastic change in land mass millions of years ago? Mass flooding must be a possibility there, that may have been caused by the ice sheets melting. But how did they melt? It couldn't of been from man made global warming could it?

 

[The Senator]

Well not dinosaurs, just the prehistoric age.

So what about the drastic change in land mass millions of years ago? Mass flooding must be a possibility there, that may have been caused by the ice sheets melting. But how did they melt? It couldn't of been from man made global warming could it?

There are natural cycles the earth experiences.

The greenhouse effect, for instance, is a natural cycle and explains why ice melts.

However, the ice should not be melting at the rate at which it is. The previous melting and warming cycles you refer to occurred over a very long period of time. Today, we went from having a complete arctic ice sheet to none in a fifteen year period. That far exceeds the hundreds upon hundreds of years it took for far larger ice sheets and glaciers to melt in previous warming cycles.

The amount of ice we stand to lose from the greenhouse effect is unprecedented. The carbon we emit causes heat to become trapped in the atmosphere and has expedited our natural cycles to a point where catastrophe is imminent.

The amount of species dying out (we lose 3,000 per year), the amount of damage done to our ecosystems, the public health crises numerous nations face... all of this can be traced to human-induced environmental degradation.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

There are natural cycles the earth experiences.

The greenhouse effect, for instance, is a natural cycle and explains why ice melts.

However, the ice should not be melting at the rate at which it is. The previous melting and warming cycles you refer to occurred over a very long period of time. Today, we went from having a complete arctic ice sheet to none in a fifteen year period. That far exceeds the hundreds upon hundreds of years it took for far larger ice sheets and glaciers to melt in previous warming cycles.

The amount of ice we stand to lose from the greenhouse effect is unprecedented. The carbon we emit causes heat to become trapped in the atmosphere and has expedited our natural cycles to a point where catastrophe is imminent.

The amount of species dying out (we lose 3,000 per year), the amount of damage done to our ecosystems, the public health crises numerous nations face... all of this can be traced to human-induced environmental degradation.

I see. Thanks for explaning. You may have actually slightly changed my mind. Major props!

But still, who are we to say what is right and what is wrong when it comes to ice melting? You say the ice shouldn't be melting at the rate it is. But who says it shouldn't? Maybe that is just natures doing? I think that is pretty hard to prove either way.

I'm not saying that we have absolutely no control over it, not at all. But what if what we are doing to the planet is insignificant compared to what is just happening naturally? That right there is what i think is the hardest thing to prove.

 

[Carcharodon]

Who says this isn't just nature taking it's course? How did the dinosaurs die out? I'm sure they weren't polluting the earth and giving out carbon emissions.

What does the extinction of the dinosaurs have to do with anything concerning climate change?

The reason that there's such strong doubt that this is nature "taking it's course," is precisely because of the emissions we're putting out. We're releasing carbon dioxide at fantastic levels, and there can be no question that we are in fact disrupting the Carbon cycle on this planet.

See, the planet has a natural system for sequestering Carbon (which, by the way, exists in a finite amount on this planet) in massive amounts so that it's not free to do anything else. All that oil and coal we're burning? Yeah. It's not meant to be burned. Before us, not a lot WAS burned...like, at all.

So it's a pretty logical conclusion that we're doing something that hasn't been done before. So those, uh, "cycles," that we KNOW occur naturally can't be directly applied to this situation. The planet hasn't seen something like this happen in the past, so everything we know about natural climate cycles is virtually moot.

*(By the by, the greenhouse effect is very real, whether climate change is or isn't.)*

I think it's amazing that people can put out the argument that this is cyclical and not realize this relatively basic principle.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

What does the extinction of the dinosaurs have to do with anything concerning climate change?

The reason that there's such strong doubt that this is nature "taking it's course," is precisely because of the emissions we're putting out. We're releasing carbon dioxide at fantastic levels, and there can be no question that we are in fact disrupting the Carbon cycle on this planet.

See, the planet has a natural system for sequestering Carbon (which, by the way, exists in a finite amount on this planet) in massive amounts so that it's not free to do anything else. All that oil and coal we're burning? Yeah. It's not meant to be burned. Before us, not a lot WAS burned...like, at all.

So it's a pretty logical conclusion that we're doing something that hasn't been done before. So those, uh, "cycles," that we KNOW occur naturally can't be directly applied to this situation. The planet hasn't seen something like this happen in the past, so everything we know about natural climate cycles is virtually moot.

*(By the by, the greenhouse effect is very real, whether climate change is or isn't.)*

I think it's amazing that people can put out the argument that this is cyclical and not realize this relatively basic principle.

Well what would the human race be like if we didn't use fossil fuels?

 

[Carcharodon]

Well what would the human race be like if we didn't use fossil fuels?

How the **** am I supposed to know?

 

[Ace of Knaves]

How the **** am I supposed to know?

lolz. Good point.

I believe that if the human race never utilized fossil fuels me and you wouldn't be having a conversation on a computer right now.

 

[Carcharodon]

...what does any of this have to do with what I said, though? Or is it just an aside?

 

[IncrediNate]

Sinning or not, it's awfully contradictory to the principles and ideals he claims to uphold.

Even if HE is joking, this is a disturbing trend seen among the political right that I have a lot of trouble understanding. There's such a level of indifference to the issue among a group of people who (to a large extent) share IncrediNate's ideological views that I'm frequently astonished to be quite frank.

We are supposed to be Earth's protector's but that doesn't make it a sin to not recycle cans daily. The earth isn't falling apart anymore then is allowed by government officials that spend more time protecting flourishing polar bear population than the Amazon. Don't blame me for your elected senators ways of working.