BvS Do you think Batman is taking the heat away from Superman?

Well of course people are excited to cast the Batman side characters because guess what? The Superman side characters are already cast.

Yes but this is set in Metropolis. As far as I know Batman is the only Batman character in this and I assumed he would be more of a side supporting character, sort of like Green Arrow was in Smallville seasons 6, 8-10.

I know the Ben Affleck story is huge with him becoming Batman, since he is a big star himself. But, I hope that the rest of the year isn't just dominated by Batman talk and I wanted to say that as soon as possible, to remind people this is a SUPERMAN movie, haha.
 
Yes. This is important for both Cavill and Affleck.
 
There is no spin. SR was an underperforming film that was relatively liked by critics, polarized fanboys, and was ultimately forgettable to the GA. B&R is a notorious flop disliked by a majority. It is not the same situation.

It's obviously not the same situation, givin how B&R was a kids franchise that was never going to continue as BB was a serious take on the character, but it's the same jest.

As you said, SR was an unforgettable film that was absolutley polarized by fanboys and a movie, that cost $45 million extra to make than MOS, that wasn't accepted as a serious take on the Superman franchise when it had every intention to be. In a nutshell, though BB had the much more embarrassing predecessor than MOS, MOS still had an uphill battle to win back an audience heavily turned off by ITS predecessor.

Anyhow, no use in arguing over it. It's all but pointless to argue such a stupid thing anyhow.
 
At least MOS is getting another chance to redeem himself which SR didn't..

Lmao, as predictable, you act as though MOS was a FLOP. It wasn't. It hit its mark. It took all but 30 some days and change for WB to announce S/B. WB never came to such a decision to "chuck" MOS. They were moving forward with this franchise, in one way or another, regardless.

Other than how you view Cavill and his performance, which I thought was great givin' what he was asked to work with (and giving me confidence in the Superman character moving forward) I agree with most of your post.
 
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Yes. This is important for both Cavill and Affleck.

Cavill got treated better in the reviews than the film itself but he didn't get rave reviews either. At this point I don't think he has made the role his own. For reasons going beyond him alone. They could probably bring in another actor for JL Superman and there would not be much of an uproar - well, except for Henry's female fans. Including my girlfriend who made me steal Details magazine from the dentist's office - it has pictures on both covers of him. Long article which is where I got the tidbit no other actor screen-tested for the part of Superman besides Cavill. To this day I want to return the mag but she won't let me.

But if he really delivers in Batman vs Superman, he will make the role his own and move into a more major star category.
 
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Cavill got treated better in the reviews than the film itself but he didn't get rave reviews either. At this point I don't think he has made the role his own. For reasons going beyhiond him alone. They could probably bring in another actor for JL Superman and there would not be much of an uproar - well, except for Henry's female fans.

But if he really delivers in Batman vs Superman, he will make the role his own and move into a more major star category.

There is no doubt Cavill has earned the oppurtinity to star in more Superman films and prove his doubters wrong. This is something Routh didn't have to worry about as he was playing a previously portrayed character on screen. Cavill had a tough feat. This isn't Iron Man or Thor or Captain America. Those parts were the first ever and they were accepted into their roles because of it. Henry Cavill is the first Superman to follow a legend in a rebooted franchise, not Christian Bale outperforming Clooney. Give the guy some slack, he did a great job and deserves to be given material Chris perfected (ala Clark Kent Daily Planet, etc.) HC deserves to be allowed to grow, just like this new take on Superman and his character.

As for the female audience, it really didn't play a big part in the percentages. The male demographic was as high as ever for MOS.
 
I thought Cavill did a good job. He didn't even get to play reporter Clark Kent till the very end. I think both he and Affleck will have a chance to shine. It doesn't have to be one or the other.
 
There is no doubt Cavill has earned the oppurtinity to star in more Superman films and prove his doubters wrong. This is something Routh didn't have to worry about as he was playing a previously portrayed character on screen. Cavill had a tough feat. This isn't Iron Man or Thor or Captain America. Those parts were the first ever and they were accepted into their roles because of it. Henry Cavill is the first Superman to follow a legend in a rebooted franchise, not Christian Bale outperforming Clooney. Give the guy some slack, he did a great job and deserves to be given material Chris perfected (ala Clark Kent Daily Planet, etc.) HC deserves to be allowed to grow, just like this new take on Superman and his character.

As for the female audience, it really didn't play a big part in the percentages. The male demographic was as high as ever for MOS.

Absolutely. In a situation like this he needs 2 films to establish his Superman. Ifthe script had been better n MOS and he had been allowed to play more than a brooding Superman he might have been well on the way to doing it by now.

It is what it is though. There will be less time for development of Superman and Clark and that dynamic given, I assume, the story will be split 50/50 between Bruce and Clark.

However, the presence of Affleck to work off of - Aflleck being, though no Bale, a stronger actor than Cavill. The knowledge that this may be a billion dollar film. That in a weird way may counterbalance the loss of screen-time.

If Cavill rises to the occasion and becomes this generation's Superman (which IMO he has not yet done) out of WF, then when his contract ends after JL, WB is going to have no choice but to re-sign him for JL2 and JL3 with a hefty raise and increase in his percentage.
 
I thought Cavill did a good job. He didn't even get to play reporter Clark Kent till the very end. I think both he and Affleck will have a chance to shine. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

^Agreed, Star. AGREED.:jedi
 
I thought Cavill did a good job. He didn't even get to play reporter Clark Kent till the very end. I think both he and Affleck will have a chance to shine. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

This is a big part of the problem with MOS. The Clark/Superman dynamic. The differences in the two characters that are the same person. That is a core element of Superman that is loved but that was basically passed over in MOS.
 
Sure.
But on the other hand ,
We have more confirmed characters from the Superman universe Then we do from Batmans world,
That could change , But the only confirmed character from Gotham so far is Bruce Wayne.
So heat or not, Supermans mythos stands to be pretty well represented.
 
I thought Cavill did a good job. He didn't even get to play reporter Clark Kent till the very end. I think both he and Affleck will have a chance to shine. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

THIS! I think if Supes had more time to be able to be at peace with things (IE. not a tense situation every other scene) he would be more cheerful and better received by audiences and critics, I think. I enjoyed every minute of Cavill's performance.
 
I don't think Snyder would let Batman overshadow Superman in this film...unless WB demanded of it. Which they totally could. I hope it doesn't happen, this is supposed to be a Man of Steel Sequel. There should atleast be equal ammount of screentime. And im not saying Batman is the villain in the movie, but it think he will have the same ammount of build up like a villain WOULD in a movie. And thats a good ammount of build up.
 
I think he should be a shadowy mysterious figure. I think Bruce should be shown now and then, but his name not mentioned. Or something. I want it to be a TRUE sequel that just happens to feature Batman. Having him be a minor, but memorable character could still do Batman justice and set up a team up movie.
 
This is a big part of the problem with MOS. The Clark/Superman dynamic. The differences in the two characters that are the same person. That is a core element of Superman that is loved but that was basically passed over in MOS.

Just a thought for you. In MOS there wasn't a Clark/Superman divide because there was essentially only one character, Clark. When Lois runs up to him after the battle of Smallville, what does she call him ? Clark.
Even Zod calls him Clark. Really, for the purposes of MOS,
Kal-El and Superman are just names, the person stays the same.
(in the Reeve films they are almost two completely different people)


In the original Superman film there's a great scene where Reeve shows up at Lois' apartement, after Superman has taken her out for a fly around town.
Anyway, she's in the other room, and he's waiting there as Clark Kent.

He takes off his glasses and straightens up and says "Lois there's something I've got to tell you." but then changes his mind, slouches and put the specs back on. Anyway, that scene really worked, but mostly because Reeve
did such a good job of selling the change.
In MOS Superman is only mentioned really once, and he's not a separate persona at all. To be honest, I kind of preferred this.
It doesn't matter if he's fighting Zod, giving his mom a hug, or working on
a fishing boat, he's still Clark Kent.

In MOS its about a guy finding the missing pieces, filling in the gaps, the quest for identity. So he's not trying to be two different people, but
trying to be one person, complete and whole -trying to reconcile why
he's different from everyone else while trying to blend in.

In fact, if you think about it, at the end of MOS
Perry White, Jenny and Lombard all see Superman reasonably closely
(before the big smackdown with Zod)
if Lois was smart enough to work out Clark's true identity without
seeing him, you would think that they'll work out that Clark Kent, a guy
they'll be around up close, is actually Superman -which would make
sense.
Hell, half of Smallville (those that survived anyway) will know that Clark
Kent is the guy in the blue S costume (Pete Ross sure as heck will).

Maybe part of BM v SM, will be Clark learning from Bruce, the importance
of having a separate identity, away from costumed crime-fighting,
to protect those you care about, but also to have a break.

So, I'm glad they skipped over the Clark Kent/Superman distinction, I thought
it worked, but that's just my opinion. Maybe it'll feature more in subsequent films, we'll have to wait and see.
 
I don't think Snyder would let Batman overshadow Superman in this film...unless WB demanded of it. Which they totally could. I hope it doesn't happen, this is supposed to be a Man of Steel Sequel. There should atleast be equal ammount of screentime. And im not saying Batman is the villain in the movie, but it think he will have the same ammount of build up like a villain WOULD in a movie. And thats a good ammount of build up.

Agreed Flash. Bruce and Clark's conflict can EASILY be manipulated by the likes of Lex Luthor.
 
THIS! I think if Supes had more time to be able to be at peace with things (IE. not a tense situation every other scene) he would be more cheerful and better received by audiences and critics, I think. I enjoyed every minute of Cavill's performance.

You liked Cavill's performance but you also see the tense situation every other scene and the lack of cheerfulness being a problem. Plus, and I think a huge issue as to why the film was critically not well received, no DP Clark.

Cavill frowned his way through the film, as directed to be sure. One key potential intimate moment that was lost was the Lois and Superman scene in the interrogation room. I thought it would be fully fleshed out but it was quickly over and on to more tense stuff.

People need a break, people need a mix of intensity in scenes. MOS just did not have that. It hurt Cavill's being able to take over the role and for this to turn him into a big star. Which it didn't. It didn't hurt him either I would add. He is just sort of still there on the radar but not much more of a blip than before.

The film lacked intimacy if that makes sense but that is how I would put it. And that hurt it big-time not just with critics but with audiences who basically baled after the first week.
 
No, I see the lack of ALLOWING Superman to be in a situation in which he can be cheerful to be the problem. What type of person would be cheerful when Earth itself is being threatened?
 
it kinda sounds like the only reason batman is in this movie is because the studio heads weren't completely satisfied with MOS's turnout and they need batman to bring in a billion dollars. i'm not gonna lie. i don't disagree with this.

the trick is to make a movie for everyone, not just the fans. when everyone becomes fans it probably gets easier to make the sequels.

this recent news of ben affleck playing batman has taken away from the whole point of this movie. it's a superman sequel. not a batman movie.

we don't need to worry about batman. i think more people want to see where this superman is going. batman will always work, and always overshadow any hero because we can all related to him more than any other superhero. he's human. no powers. he has the best villains, and the best story of triumphing over adversity.

i'm curious to see how it all turns out.
 
No, I see the lack of ALLOWING Superman to be in a situation in which he can be cheerful to be the problem. What type of person would be cheerful when Earth itself is being threatened?

I agree. The film lacked a proper balance. it was generally a downer. The reviews were right in many of their criticisms an that was a big one. Th approach was just wrong as it ended up on screen.
 
it kinda sounds like the only reason batman is in this movie is because the studio heads weren't completely satisfied with MOS's turnout and they need batman to bring in a billion dollars. i'm not gonna lie. i don't disagree with this.

the trick is to make a movie for everyone, not just the fans. when everyone becomes fans it probably gets easier to make the sequels.

this recent news of ben affleck playing batman has taken away from the whole point of this movie. it's a superman sequel. not a batman movie.

we don't need to worry about batman. i think more people want to see where this superman is going. batman will always work, and always overshadow any hero because we can all related to him more than any other superhero. he's human. no powers. he has the best villains, and the best story of triumphing over adversity.

i'm curious to see how it all turns out.

Good points. The underperforming thing is reported more and more now on the likes of Variety so I think, yes, MOS underperformed expectations. This will likely be further confirmed when BOM and other film sites do their summer film results analysis.

Maybe WB wasn't really expecting a billion plusas Robinov says, but it looks like they could have been expecting 800 million.

Batman is safe as you say. No matter what WHF does, Batman is getting his trilogy with Affleck and, if WB has its way, he'll do 4 or 5 Bat films.

Batman is in a league of its own in that its a permanent franchise. They will be making Bat flicks 30, 40 and more years from now. As they will be making Bond, Star Wars and Spiderman films too.

But Superman is not in that category and neither is JL right now.

WF is critical to JL getting launched and to WB doing another stand-alone Superman.

So yes, it will be interesting to see how it unfolds. If WF does huge then JL follows shortly. If WF does huge and Superman audience tests well then yes, WB may try another stand-alone Supes after JL sometime.
 
Aren't you optimistic?
Superman made 4 sequels, one (failed) reboot (or sequel as it seems), 1 origin, and this is a follow-up to MOS.

They'll eventually reboot Superman.

But Wonder Woman and the Flash have yet to get off the ground as a feature.
 
Aren't you optimistic?
Superman made 4 sequels, one (failed) reboot (or sequel as it seems), 1 origin, and this is a follow-up to MOS.

They'll eventually reboot Superman.

But Wonder Woman and the Flash have yet to get off the ground as a feature.

Yes they will eventually reboot.

The question is will they do another MOS/Cavill stand-alone film. That depends on WF in general and Cavill's performance therein in particular.
 
The Superman/Batman movies box performance is what really counts.
 

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