Do you think Miller is going to ruin the Spirit in through his movie?

[The Shadow]

The title says it all. And if he does ruin it, we've always got Midnight

No one will ever know the difference between him in the Spirit. Lol.

 

[theMan-Bat]

I remember Midnight.

 

[rogue trooper]

Damn!! I wonder if Eisner sued.

 

[The Shadow]

I doubt it. The only reason Jack Cole made him was in case Eisner got killed in WWII. It was backup for the Spirit. The characters look almost identical, but from what I've read, Cole doesn't put the Eisner Touch on Midnight. Still like him, though.

 

[IDrawDeadPeople]

To answer your question...

No. I don't think Miller will ruin The Spirit with this film.

I think it will be a solid, fun film that has moments of Eisner's characters in it, but won't give an honest interpretation, either. I don't think Denny, Ellen, et al will be completely unrecognizable... just altered to the point of attracting a new audience to the work without giving a full, honest representation of Eisner's ideas.

A good comparison would be 300. Great movie. Other than all the useless sex scenes... and there were multiple sex scenes...

But, 300 is not exactly what one would refer to as historically accurate. Miller went and roid-raged everything up 10,000 notches, so that the brave Spartans who actually fought in the last stand of Thermopalyae seem lame and weak in comparison when people get interested in the story because of Miller's great, fun, impressive exaggeration and then go research the source material.

I love 300, but it's not how it happened. And the historical story is actually not so epic in comparison. Not to take anything away from either Miller's story or the men who actually fought.

The Spirit will be like that. New audiences will love all the negativity and sex, and get totally amped up because I'm sure the film is going to look amazing and be fun as anything... and then people will go looking for some 'historical' views on The Spirit and find what seems lame and old fashioned in comparison, because it's not loaded to the point of bursting with sex, foul language, overblown male posturing, and the sorts of things that makes Miller's work appealing to his audience.

Look at it this way:
If the only Batman I ever read was Miller's, I'd be very confused by the film The Dark Knight... because the entire plot hinged on Batman's 'one rule'... he doesn't kill.

Miller gets the character and says "My fans want death and cursing and murder and sex... to hell with it... Batman kills people".

And, Miller's audience goes ape over it. Which is cool, I suppose... he got some people into Batman by writing fringe material because that's how he knows how to write. Now, all of the sudden, that new audience goes and sees The Dark Knight, and is all blown out because in the comic books they've read, Batman not only kills people... he has a good time doing it, because he's "a b@$t@rd" according to Miller in his preface to the Dark Knight Returns.

That's probably what will happen with The Spirit film. New audiences will love it and go find Eisner's work and be let down, and most Eisner fans will probably admit it's a really flashy film with cool stuff in it... and lament that it's somewhat unrecognizable... but I concede... not entirely unrecognizable.

 

[The Shadow]

New audiences will find the comics quite different than the movie but I can't see them being disappointed by Eisner's work. He has an amazing writing technique. If anything, I'll be let down by the movie.

 

[IDrawDeadPeople]

Don't misinterpret...

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with Eisner's work... the premiere award in comics publishing is named after the guy... which could lead back to the "why does Miller have to 'fix' everything" debate... but we all already know how that ends... it never does.

What my post meant was this... Die hard Miller fanboys (1.) can't admit any flaws in his work in order to look at any of the changes objectively, and (2.) love how Miller writes, so they are obviously fans of banally excessive use of cursing (in place of actually coming up with creative dialogue), pre-pubescent fantasy interpretations of women as objects, and overblown violence for the sake of shock tactics.

Which is fine. If that's a person's thing... well, that's a person's thing.

BUT... and here's the point I made... THOSE members of the film-going audience who have never read Eisner's work who go see the film hoping one of the sex objects in the trailer will get stripped and beaten with a whip like Nancy in Sin City will be all fired up by the film... drive home listening to their Rob Zombie cds in their pick up trucks and go online looking to get a hold of some of this Eisner guy's hardcore, violent sex comic and instead get intelligently written stories with no hyper violent manly moments or orgies or African American men in Nazi uniforms... (Miller has never used Swastikas in his work before )... and they won't find what they are looking for.

Because, according to Miller's audience... Eisner's ideas are in need of massive improvement. Which means the actual comic is a 'step down' from this Citizen Kane of comic-to-film adaptations...

And, I happen to actually like some of Miller's work. It just happens to have absolutely nothing to do with Eisner's talents in writing.

Regardless of what he says in interviews.

Or his kiss-ups try to sell us.

 

[mego joe]

Don't misinterpret...

There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with Eisner's work... the premiere award in comics publishing is named after the guy... which could lead back to the "why does Miller have to 'fix' everything" debate... but we all already know how that ends... it never does.

What my post meant was this... Die hard Miller fanboys (1.) can't admit any flaws in his work in order to look at any of the changes objectively, and (2.) love how Miller writes, so they are obviously fans of banally excessive use of cursing (in place of actually coming up with creative dialogue), pre-pubescent fantasy interpretations of women as objects, and overblown violence for the sake of shock tactics.

Which is fine. If that's a person's thing... well, that's a person's thing.

BUT... and here's the point I made... THOSE members of the film-going audience who have never read Eisner's work who go see the film hoping one of the sex objects in the trailer will get stripped and beaten with a whip like Nancy in Sin City will be all fired up by the film... drive home listening to their Rob Zombie cds in their pick up trucks and go online looking to get a hold of some of this Eisner guy's hardcore, violent sex comic and instead get intelligently written stories with no hyper violent manly moments or orgies or African American men in Nazi uniforms... (Miller has never used Swastikas in his work before )... and they won't find what they are looking for.

Because, according to Miller's audience... Eisner's ideas are in need of massive improvement. Which means the actual comic is a 'step down' from this Citizen Kane of comic-to-film adaptations...

And, I happen to actually like some of Miller's work. It just happens to have absolutely nothing to do with Eisner's talents in writing.

Regardless of what he says in interviews.

Or his kiss-ups try to sell us.

I think you are right on target DrawerofDeadPeople.

 

[Eison]

This movie isn't for Eisner or anyone who is a fan of his work. It is for Miller and people who are fans of his. I don't think many people are going to link the 2 of them together much. The only way I think this move really effects anyone is Miller if it completely bombed but I don't think it will.

Unfortunately, not many people are buying the current Spirit comic published by DC, especially since Cooke is no longer on the title. But I don't think this movie, no matter how good or bad it is, was ever going to drive people to that book or into looking for reprints or collections of Eisner's work either. The styles are just going to be too different for it to really matter.

 

[The Shadow]

If people want to see Miller, I suggest they see Sin City or wait until Sin City 2 comes out. But, looks at the title. We're talking about the Spirit. In my opinion he's one of the greatest characters of all time. I think Miller is obsessed with him self to the point where he just wants to make every thing like Sin City. And hes making the Spirit EXACTLY like Sin City. But, people are over looking that it isn't sin city. This is supposed to be about Will Eisner's THE SPIRIT.

 

[Eison]

This is supposed to be about Will Eisner's THE SPIRIT.

That is the way it should be. But what it really will be is Frank Miller's Spirit.


That's not the way I want it or think it should be, but that is how it got made and how it is being promoted.

 

[The Shadow]

I'd hardly call it the Spirit. You should say, " That is the way it should be. But what it really will be is Frank Miller. Period. Just bearded old frank miller...sob...sob...sniff...sniff...

 

[Comics N' Toons]

I don't even think P'Gell is in this movie

 

[OctaviusINC]

Did anybody read the Wizard interview with Macht? He said that he bought "The Best of the Spirit" graphic novel to prepare for his role and Miller threw it out because he "didn't like it". WTF?

 

[Comics N' Toons]

is that true... it can't be

 

[:-}]

No I dont think it will ruin the spirit.

It will tell an entirely different story then the spirit we here all know and love. Some spirit fans will enjoy it and some won't and then there will be the host of the public who watch the movie, think its awesome, want to buy the comic, then grow to like the comic more.

To be honest though the only who person who ruined the spirit was Will Eisner... by dying.

 

[IDrawDeadPeople]

is that true... it can't be

I haven't seen that particular article, but Macht has used that line before. It's not shocking... especially if you've seen any of the 'fruit' of their collaborated labor. Miller is an egomaniac who has bought into his own hype. He has his vision, which is great if you're a Miller fan, but it's put him in a position where he needs to pull stuff like this to maintain control of the production.

If he wants his cast to do Frank Miller's The Spirit, the last thing they need to be reading is Will Eisner's The Spirit.

Simple as that.

If Miller's 'adaptation' is so faithful to Eisner's work, it would be no harm at all to read a collection of Eisner's stories... even if the film didn't follow those particular arcs. The problem is, Miller can't afford his crew reading Eisner and then questioning why the toilet paper with staples in that he passed off as a script is so far removed from the source material in spirit.

Pun intended or not, depending on the readers' preference.

Would make for some great DVD outtake video, though...

Macht: Frank, I've been reading these old The Spirit comics and I can't seem to find the stories where he has invincibility and pheremone powers.

Miller: Which collection is that? Oh, it's in color. I've always preferred the black and white stories.

Macht: What does that have to do with the story elements?

Miller: Yeah, those old black and white reprints from long after my childhood that weren't what I first fell in love with are the best.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

Well have you read the Script? If so, you have rights to judge. But the Trailer looks pretty good & it seems like reimagining!

Nobody complained about Burton's "reimagining" of Batman...

We'll see

 

[IDrawDeadPeople]

Oh BURN!

You got me. I don't have a leaked script... I'm sorry- you must have seen the trailer that didn't have dialogue or any characters in it. The clips, teasers, and full trailer ... not to mention all of the plot points revealed by the cast & crew... have revealed all sorts of things that Eisner never had his characters say or do, which makes it actually quite easy to get the direction the script is going. And, if you think a Jew who spent the end of his life producing THE PLOT would use a Nazi uniform as a cheap shock/giggle, you're either in denial or you're nuts.

"Reimagining" is a good way of putting it though.

It sounds much better than '****ing on the source material'.


Hope this doesn't sound 'mad', because it's not meant to. Just replying with some humor. Truthfully, the whole "have you read the script" argument isn't a good one. The entire POINT of releasing promotional material, especially trailers or clips from the film, is to generate opinions on the final product. It's the entire purpose. There is no other reason to show a potential audience scenes from a film other than to influence their opinion on the film.

Sadly, some people who have seen the promotional material from Frank Miller's The Spirit also happen to have a decent amount of familiarity/knowledge of Will Einser's The Spirit... and the two don't resemble each other very much.

Unless you're Rogue Trooper or Man Bat. We've covered that, already.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

****ing on the source material is pretty extreme for any film (unless it Joel Shumacher's Batman)...

But I think there are definite things you shouldn't do. For instance, when Tim Burton or somebody had the Joker being the murder of Bruce Wayne's parents... that is ****ing on the source material... but letting Vicki Vale into the batcave is forgivable.


If Miller gets the gist of the Spirit correct & doesn't alter his origin or anything in any way, things should be fine

 

[IDrawDeadPeople]

Does Joker killing Batman's parents in order to alter the source material resonate like Octopus 'killing' Denny Colt to make him the Spirit and give him newly invented superpowers of invincibility and sexual attraction...?

Because Doc Cobra thought he 'killed' Denny in the comic, and it didn't give him any superpowers.

 

[IDrawDeadPeople]

Seperately, regarding other characters...

I found this in another thread, and thought it was hilarious... accurate, yet funny.

Apparently, Miller's reputation as a one trick pony is not only widely recognized... but, it's also influencing the arts.

 

[Comics N' Toons]

IDoes Joker killing Batman's parents in order to alter the source material resonate like Octopus 'killing' Denny Colt to make him the Spirit and give him newly invented superpowers of invincibility and sexual attraction...?

Because Doc Cobra thought he 'killed' Denny in the comic, and it didn't give him any superpowers.

I know... but this might be a reimagining. What superpowers does he have in the movie?

I wasn't aware he had any

 

[IDrawDeadPeople]

At San Diego, it was revealed that he has been altered to be indestructible... like a cartoon character. This was how Miller thought to justify the beatings he could take. He now is indestructible, rather than a tough man who is willing to push past his circumstances.

And to top that off...

He also has had his pheremones altered, so that any woman who meets him wants to have sex with him. And, they can't control it. He has a sex power.

And, on top of that...

Octopus, in this film, was a disgruntled coroner, who somehow was also a world class genetic mastermind (working as a coroner?)... who became the crimelord of the city... and he MADE Denny into this superbeing. He also gave himself superpowers... and made an army of fat, bald clones.

So... about this 're-imagining'?

 

[Comics N' Toons]

Reimagining?

I dunno from what you say, it sounds like he's almost recreating The Spirit.

i dunno