The Rise of Skywalker Does Kathleen Kennedy get fired after ROS?

[jmc]

Kennedy should be fired for her failures but in her defense Star Wars has been going downhill for a while. Lets not forget Luca's prequels in the late 90's early 2000's were probably only the 4th biggest sci-fi/fantasy franchise of the time after Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter and Raimi's Spider-Man.

I disagree with not expanding the audience. Kennedy's failure to expand the brand overseas especially China is another one of her great failures. Star Wars continues to lag behind many other franchises overseas box office. But you can expand the fan base without alienating the old fans. Look at how Marvel's box office grew not just domestically but overseas as well the past decade.

Kennedy cannot be blamed for China because China has never been interested in Star Wars in the first place. You can place a lot of the issues this trilogy and this franchise have come across on the shoulders of Kennedy, but China is not one of them. Marvel's advantage is that for the most part they are introducing what are essentially new characters to people. I'll guarantee you most people who went to see Avengers have never once picked up and read an Avengers comic book. So, for all intense and purposes Marvel is creating original characters for the masses . The truth is Star Wars had nowhere else to expand to, and Iger should have known this before buying it from Lucas. 100% misguided to point fingers towards Kennedy here, this was Iger's miscalculation.

 

[TheGuy]

I disagree that Marvel's success in China is due to the introduction of new characters. Superheroes have existed long before Star Wars, and the audience for them is actually bigger. Tapping into that market is Marvel's biggest asset. Not to minimize the effects of Star Wars on popular culture, but the Star Wars fandom has always been about North America. I live in Asia and I can tell you quite frankly that Star Wars is an afterthought to most. And I dare say that if Star Wars movies were released on May-June or at the pace to superhero movies that we will get more Solo BO results.

 

[Consona]

I already outlined what happened for you but you’d rather believe angry Youtubers swayed the general populace and then talk to us about “proof”. Lol

Show me your sources. If you have any.

 

[writer0327]

So are folks saying that KK's major sin is the failure to engage the fanbase on the same level as Marvel? Or is it poorly developed projects? Which Disney SW projects would you say was a misfire? Except for Solo all have been profitable.

 

[Patrick77]

A completely different direction, less focused on nostalgia, might have sparked more enthusiasm in places that didn't already care about Star Wars. The Force Awakens cashed in on established interest, but that's about it.

When Star Wars eventually comes back to the big screen, the studio will have to think about a lot of basic stuff. How does it look, how does it feel? What is the state of the galaxy?

It will have to be less backward-looking to really work, I think. Completely new characters, move away from Rebels vs. Empire, probably. We've seen that a lot. The Force, the Jedi, the Sith and related stuff would still be a part of it, most likely, but they will need to find a way to make those elements inspire wonder and awe again.

We shouldn't have this feeling of tired repetition, or the assumption that the Force should inspire wonder when it really doesn't anymore.

That's part of the issue, of course. The cool factor of these movies isn't what it used to be, in comparison with other stuff.

 

[jmc]

So are folks saying that KK's major sin is the failure to engage the fanbase on the same level as Marvel? Or is it poorly developed projects? Which Disney SW projects would you say was a misfire? Except for Solo all have been profitable.

I don't think she needed to engage with fans. She just needed to care about the projects more. She might be a good producer, but she's clearly not a fan of Star Wars.

 

[writer0327]

I don't think she needed to engage with fans. She just needed to care about the projects more. She might be a good producer, but she's clearly not a fan of Star Wars.

And by engage, I don't mean her personally, but her projects failed to engage the fanbase. I believe the hiring/firing of multiple directors shows she cared on some level. What else could she have done? Greenlit more projects? Less?

 

[Prettyricky]

So are folks saying that KK's major sin is the failure to engage the fanbase on the same level as Marvel? Or is it poorly developed projects? Which Disney SW projects would you say was a misfire? Except for Solo all have been profitable.

profitable success is entirely different from overall success

 

[Patrick77]

Looking at what has happened over the course of these movies, I don't think that there's any big mystery about why there have been diminishing returns.

They went all in on nostalgia in the first couple of films, but that can only take you so far.

There's almost nothing in any of these films that would inspire a lot of passion or interest if you weren't already invested in Star Wars, that I can see.

 

[Zarex]

Well, show me some analysis of the situation instead of your IMOs and I have no problem changing my mind.

Certain hardcore fanboys may have clutched their pearls over Hermit Luke. For me, Luke tossing the light saber was one of the all-time great scenes in the franchise. I thought I knew exactly what the TLJ story was going to be, but NOPE! A welcome, bold decision for an aging franchise.

But despite the outcry the film did very well at the BO. There was a drop off from the 1st, but ESB suffered the same effect. It earned very strong critical reviews and an a 'A' Cinemascore. It's a challenge to link the film's performance to Solo's struggles.

So what were the reasons for Solo's struggles? Well, start with an awful release date near Infinity War and too close to TLJ, and then go to highly publicized behind the scenes controversies that included a director change and a complete reshoot. Add in the recast of one of the most popular actor-character combinations in cinematic history and a prequel story for a character who's past probably should have remained a mystery.

In conclusion, it's difficult to blame TLJ for Solo when there are so many stronger reasons for why it underperformed.

 

[sueb1863]

What they need are some top notch writers who can put together interesting, compelling SW stories. The ST was too much marketing and not enough really solid storytelling. That's how we ended up with characters like Phasma, who had a cool costume and just about nothing to do in the story. She was only there to sell toys.

 

[superion]

Kennedy cannot be blamed for China because China has never been interested in Star Wars in the first place. You can place a lot of the issues this trilogy and this franchise have come across on the shoulders of Kennedy, but China is not one of them. Marvel's advantage is that for the most part they are introducing what are essentially new characters to people. I'll guarantee you most people who went to see Avengers have never once picked up and read an Avengers comic book. So, for all intense and purposes Marvel is creating original characters for the masses . The truth is Star Wars had nowhere else to expand to, and Iger should have known this before buying it from Lucas. 100% misguided to point fingers towards Kennedy here, this was Iger's miscalculation.

Yes I can blame Kennedy. While the sequels were a problem because they relied on knowledge of the previous movies the stand alone films should have attempted to be original films that did not rely on nostalgia.

There was no reason for Solo. I and probably everyone else thought it was a stupid idea the moment it was announced.. In its place they should have come up with an original Star Wars story separate from the other films that could serve as a introduction to the Star Wars universe for new viewers.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Solo was a Lucas/Kasdan thing...apparently it was in development a long time before even the Sequel Trilogy.

 

[TheVileOne]

They should've have forced a May 2018 release date. That was insanity and did not help the movie. But that was a Bob Iger decision and he's admitted as such. Lord and Miller should not have been fired. Studio should've had their backs.

 

[writer0327]

profitable success is entirely different from overall success

So what is the measurement for overall success? I agree the ST was not executed well, but let's examine at all SW projects under her watch. Which of these was a misfire?

Films: TFA, R1, TLJ, Solo, TROS
Animated shows: Clone Wars, Rebels, Resistance
TV shows: The Mandalorian
Theme Parks: Galaxy's Edge (x2)

If anything I'd argue she probably could have/should have done more than this in 7 years since purchasing from Lucas, but most of these projects have been successful. Successful as they should have been? That's debatable. Solo is the only major misfire, both critically and financially.

 

[Patrick77]

The concerning thing would be the declining interest in the blockbuster films, mostly.

Maybe there are some not-so-great signs in other areas. But that would be the main thing.

I don't know that focusing on Kennedy makes a lot of sense, tbh. People like to bring up Feige, but he's unusual. The DC films have also been doing great recently, but they have relied on individual directors. Most studios rely on directors to set the creative vision.

There was obviously a ton of built up demand for a return to the original Star Wars ambiance, so I'm not sure that The Force Awakens can be called a failure of judgment. People were excited for what that movie had to offer.

In retrospect, however, the nostalgia evaporated fairly quickly, they didn't have much of a story to tell, and now they need to rethink how these movies work almost entirely, from what I can see.

 

[jmc]

Yes I can blame Kennedy. While the sequels were a problem because they relied on knowledge of the previous movies the stand alone films should have attempted to be original films that did not rely on nostalgia.

There was no reason for Solo. I and probably everyone else thought it was a stupid idea the moment it was announced.. In its place they should have come up with an original Star Wars story separate from the other films that could serve as a introduction to the Star Wars universe for new viewers.

None of which was guaranteed to work in China even if they were 100% new ideas. So, no, I don't agree Kennedy is somehow responsible for the failure in China. Star Wars has never been something China and other parts of Asia cared for. That's something that should have accepted by Disney when the purchase was made. You can lay blame on Kennedy for trying to move beyond the old fanbase though. Both approaches failed for the same reason. There is not a new fan base for Star Wars to attract. There is no mythical fan base to replace the existing one who is suddenly going to fall in love with the property and start buying all the merch.

 

[Consona]

Certain hardcore fanboys may have clutched their pearls over Hermit Luke. For me, Luke tossing the light sabre was one of the all-time great scenes in the franchise. I thought I knew exactly what the TLJ story was going to be, but NOPE! A welcome, bold decision for an aging franchise.

But despite the outcry the film did very well at the BO. There was a drop off from the 1st, but ESB suffered the same effect. It earned very strong critical reviews and an a 'A' Cinemascore. It's a challenge to link the film's performance to Solo's struggles.

So what were the reasons for Solo's struggles? Well, start with an awful release date near Infinity War and too close to TLJ, and then go to highly publicized behind the scenes controversies that included a director change and a complete reshoot. Add in the recast of one of the most popular actor-character combinations in cinematic history and a prequel story for a character who's past probably should have remained a mystery.

In conclusion, it's difficult to blame TLJ for Solo when there are so many stronger reasons for why it underperformed.

I don't know why you don't understand what I want from you, guys. All you are giving me is your interpretation of the situation. Everybody has one. I ask for your sources and data you base your claims on.

 

[Flint Marko]

I don't know why you don't understand what I want from you, guys. All you are giving me is your interpretation of the situation. Everybody has one. I ask for your sources and data you base your claims on.

I don’t know how you don’t understand we’re just telling you what happened with the production. The widely publicized course of events that played out in front of all of us and made everyone wary well before TLJ premiere.

What data do you have that angry Youtubers and TLJ brought down Solo?

 

[Zarex]

I don't know why you don't understand what I want from you, guys. All you are giving me is your interpretation of the situation. Everybody has one. I ask for your sources and data you base your claims on.

I'm sure The Mouse has hard and fast facts as to why Solo lost over $50M, but they ain't sharing them. So all that us forum posters, redditors, Twitter accounts and YT video creators can do is speculate given the facts at hand. And the theory that fan outrage killed Solo is the weakest one of the lot.

We've seen certain types of fans attack Captain Marvel (49% RT Audience Score!), Watchmen (53% RT Audience Score!) and The Last Jedi (43% RT Audience Score!) with little to no impact on the audience. So the "Fan Outrage over The Last Jedi killed Solo!" theory is weak sauce.

 

[Flint Marko]

Here’s an article regurgitating everything we’ve told you, Consona, along with the tidbit that Disney allegedly expected it to bomb because of production troubles and script issues:

How Worried Should We Be About ‘Solo: A Star Wars Story’?

 

[shinlyle]

I'm sure The Mouse has hard and fast facts as to why Solo lost over $50M, but they ain't sharing them. So all that us forum posters, redditors, Twitter accounts and YT video creators can do is speculate given the facts at hand. And the theory that fan outrage killed Solo is the weakest one of the lot.

We've seen certain types of fans attack Captain Marvel (49% RT Audience Score!), Watchmen (53% RT Audience Score!) and The Last Jedi (43% RT Audience Score!) with little to no impact on the audience. So the "Fan Outrage over The Last Jedi killed Solo!" theory is weak sauce.

I personally think Solo was just a product without a market. No one was demanding it, this wasn't an era where there were too many questions, and the film suffered all those production woes...

We knew Han got the Falcon from Lando. We knew Han freed Chewie, and that he and Chewie were pals for life. We knew he made the Kessel Run in record time. We didn't need a 2 hour film to andwer the questions we already knew. If anything, it cheapened the fun behind Han and Chewie.

A better plan would have been a film set between 3 and 4 around a planetary purge with new characters, and maybe even some Jedi who could meet a heroic end at the hands of Vader. Apparently, a minute and a half of Vader can go a long way...

 

[writer0327]

None of which was guaranteed to work in China even if they were 100% new ideas. So, no, I don't agree Kennedy is somehow responsible for the failure in China. Star Wars has never been something China and other parts of Asia cared for. That's something that should have accepted by Disney when the purchase was made. You can lay blame on Kennedy for trying to move beyond the old fanbase though. Both approaches failed for the same reason. There is not a new fan base for Star Wars to attract. There is no mythical fan base to replace the existing one who is suddenly going to fall in love with the property and start buying all the merch.

What about the children? Won't someone think of the children?

Seriously, if they don't attract new fans, the existing older fans are going to die eventually

 

[Consona]

I don’t know how you don’t understand we’re just telling you what happened with the production. The widely publicized course of events that played out in front of all of us and made everyone wary well before TLJ premiere.

What data do you have that angry Youtubers and TLJ brought down Solo?

I don’t know how you don’t understand... all you are giving me are your opinions on what happened?

Yea, those are my data, and I could be wrong.

Some IMO article isn't a proof.

So all that us forum posters, redditors, Twitter accounts and YT video creators can do is speculate

Exactly.
What is or isn't a strong theory is just your speculation.

 

[TheRandomWhoa]

They should've have forced a May 2018 release date. That was insanity and did not help the movie. But that was a Bob Iger decision and he's admitted as such. Lord and Miller should not have been fired. Studio should've had their backs.

Solo gets killed by Aquaman if it was a December release