The Amazing Spider-Man 2 Does this movie really deserve the hate it gets?

[Climperoonie]

Is this a analysis of the film out of list form?

Exactly...

In all seriousness, I really do agree with you, I think TASM2 is extremely layered, and some are put off by the first layer, don't bother to go any deeper, and then spend the rest of the time complaining about how bad the first layer was!

What's wrong with lists?

Agreed. I remember when I first watched it, I was a bit underwhelmed until the third act, which I thought was spectacular. When I went back a second time, and already knew the beats and so on, everything seemed to connect and flow better.

I think that's the biggest problem, people saw it, didn't like it because it can be cumbersome on first viewing, and then wrote it off and didn't watch it again, which is a shame because I expect half of those people would enjoy it more second time round.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Why would people want to watch a film they didn't like more than once?

 

[OriginalMiles]

"none of the subplots are connected" is a complaint I've seen.

That's a lie... it all connects at some point.

Peter's personal quest joins up with Harry's when watching the video with Norman and Richard as Peter finds out more about his father, while Harry is looking for a cure.*

Electro's story connects with both Harry's story and Peter and Gwen's love story when Harry frees him (trying to get into Oscorp for a cure) and when he attacks the power plant leading to Peter and Gwen having to stop him (he causes her to go there, the place of her death).

Harry's quest connects to Peter's personal quest because Peter's father made the Spiders (and the venom) that transform Harry into Goblin, which leads him to kill Gwen (which connects it to Peter and Gwen's story).

 

[The Joker]

Bingo!!

Anyone disagree? Surely the worst CBM ever has a poor opening scene?

If not, let's move on to the Truck Chase Scene, and how it is worse than other CBM's!

Fun times ahead!!

You're behaving like you want to start a flame war with your constant hyperbolic sarcasm, silly demands, and stupid baiting remarks. Who said the opening scene of the movie, or even every single scene in the movie is poor?

The likes of Batman and Robin, Green Lantern, Superman 4 etc have got some good or decent or passable scenes in them. But they're still bad movies. That doesn't just go for bad comic book movies, but bad movies in general. Likewise that good movies can sometimes have some bad scenes in them.

As if you didn't know all this though. No wonder your posts are being ignored.

"none of the subplots are connected" is a complaint I've seen.

That's a lie... it all connects at some point.

Peter's personal quest joins up with Harry's when watching the video with Norman and Richard as Peter finds out more about his father, while Harry is looking for a cure.*

Electro's story connects with both Harry's story and Peter and Gwen's love story when Harry frees him (trying to get into Oscorp for a cure) and when he attacks the power plant leading to Peter and Gwen having to stop him (he causes her to go there, the place of her death).

Harry's quest connects to Peter's personal quest because Peter's father made the Spiders (and the venom) that transform Harry into Goblin, which leads him to kill Gwen (which connects it to Peter and Gwen's story).

No, none of the sub plots connect naturally or are developed naturally into something that feels properly connected. It's all very unnatural and forced. Harry pops up, he's sick and dying. All this revealed in his first scene. There's 90% of the character for the whole movie already revealed in one scene. He used to be friends with Peter so we'll get a quick awkward scene of them hanging out spewing awful dialogue at each other ("My butler holds the mirror I hold the comb"), he shows Peter a vid of their two dads working together. Voila. No build up, no development, nothing put into structuring these sub plots. It's all just here's a new character, he knows Peter, their dads worked together. They're connected.

Electro's story connects with Harry's on the most superficial level. They both worked at Oscorp. Electro is nothing but a flashy action piece, who is tucked away in jail for the bulk of the movie until they can conveniently and ridiculously have Harry bust him out as action fodder for the weak finale.

The only stories that feel properly connected is Peter and Gwen, and Peter and the deadly dull parents storyline. That's partially because they've been going on since the first movie.

 

[OriginalMiles]

No, none of the sub plots connect naturally or are developed naturally into something that feels properly connected.

Okay...

1: They're still connected, so the complaint is still invalid

It's all very unnatural and forced. Harry pops up, he's sick and dying. All this revealed in his first scene. There's 90% of the character for the whole movie already revealed in one scene. He used to be friends with Peter so we'll get a quick awkward scene of them hanging out spewing awful dialogue at each other ("My butler holds the mirror I hold the comb"), he shows Peter a vid of their two dads working together. Voila. No build up, no development, nothing put into structuring these sub plots. It's all just here's a new character, he knows Peter, their dads worked together. They're connected.

2: "Unnatural and forced" What, so the introductions to these character's and their purposes are forced? That's ridiculous, it's not forced! It unfolds pretty naturally. I would bring up the Raimi movies but that's not allowed, but introducing characters and showing us how they connect to the story happens in almost every movie. It's not like Harry is just a random guy who's father happened to work with Richard Parker. No, we're told Norman is dying in TASM1, and we're pretty much shown that in TASM2, he shows and tells us Harry is dying too. Harry and Peter being childhood friends, yeah that's kind of forced on us but it makes sense, their fathers worked together because they not only worked in the same place, but Richard Parker's research was being used to cure Norman, as we know from TASM1 so of course they worked together and their son's would've almost certainly interacted at some point and become friends. Harry discovers some of the research from those days and decides to show Peter, pretty natural to me.... They show us, and tell us and it felt natural.

Electro's story connects with Harry's on the most superficial level. They both worked at Oscorp. Electro is nothing but a flashy action piece, who is tucked away in jail for the bulk of the movie until they can conveniently and ridiculously have Harry bust him out as action fodder for the weak finale. The only stories that feel properly connected is Peter and Gwen, and Peter and the deadly dull parents storyline. That's partially because they've been going on since the first movie.

3: Yeah, no arguments here!

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I honestly feel like a big issue with the film was the dialogue. I think some of the scenes come across in a negative way that could have been seen in a positive light with better written lines for the actors. Much of the dialogue almost seemed improvised or 'forced' rather than what should have felt like it was coming from a natural place.

 

[Erzengel]

I haven't watched TASM2. It's going to be next on my Netflix Queue.

However, my wife watched it. She's not that into comic book movies as I am. But to give a little background:

She thinks GL and Wolverine Origins was bad.
The Winter Soldier was really good however, she could never get into how goody goody Cap is.
Spider-Man 1 was better than Spider-Man 2.
She saw TASM2 and thought it was decent but below TWS and DOFP.

I personally think the truth about this movie is somewhere in the middle of the people who really disliked it and the people who are enthusiastic about it.

Everyone has their own favorites and preferences based on favorite characters, comic books, studios, etc. and that's fine. I just have a hard time believing in a year where we had 4 comic book films and 3 of them were praised by the GA, the critics and the CBFans that you have a movie like Spider-Man (where even if you feel it's unfair should still be held to a higher standard) that seems to be more mediocre and everyone was wrong.

I'm going to watch TASM2 with low expectations and I'm sure it's not going to be as bad as some people make it out to be. But after watching the other 3, I don't see how it can be better.

 

[StarkTheProdigy]

You're behaving like you want to start a flame war with your constant hyperbolic sarcasm, silly demands, and stupid baiting remarks. Who said the opening scene of the movie, or even every single scene in the movie is poor?

The likes of Batman and Robin, Green Lantern, Superman 4 etc have got some good or decent or passable scenes in them. But they're still bad movies. That doesn't just go for bad comic book movies, but bad movies in general. Likewise that good movies can sometimes have some bad scenes in them.

As if you didn't know all this though. No wonder your posts are being ignored.

Thank you

 

[GoodYoung]

SM2 its milles better then xmen dofp or most super hero movies. 1 it has one of the best villians in a cbm in doc ock. 2. The train fight is still the best action scence in a CBM yet. 3 just a great story.

No, SM2 is terrible and DOFP is one of the best cbm ever made.
1) Doc Ock is not one of the best villains. Not even in top-10.
2) Train scene was good but nothing special.

 

[OriginalMiles]

No, SM2 is terrible and DOFP is one of tgebbest cbm ever made.
1) Doc Ock is not one of the best villains. Not even in top-10.
2) Train scene was good but nothing special.

Are you high?

 

[GoodYoung]

He used to be friends with Peter so we'll get a quick awkward scene of them hanging out spewing awful dialogue at each other ("My butler holds the mirror I hold the comb")

It's actually great scene and good dialogue between them.

 

[GoodYoung]

Are you high?

Nope.

 

[The Joker]

Thank you

1: They're still connected, so the complaint is still invalid

I can't speak for anyone who said they're not connected, but I'm saying they're badly/loosely connected. Perhaps that's what the others mean when they say they don't feel connected, as in connected properly.

2: "Unnatural and forced" What, so the introductions to these character's and their purposes are forced?

Yes exactly.

That's ridiculous, it's not forced!

Yes it is. I've already covered Harry in the previous post, so lets look at another one, like Electro. Spider-Man randomly bumps into some loser in the midst of an action scene with a comical comb over, gap teeth, 150 pens in his chest pocket, for about 20 seconds, and that's the crux of the Spider-Man/Electro relationship for the movie.

It unfolds pretty naturally.

Yeah that's why people are rejoicing that Orci is gone. Because he's so good at natural story telling.

It's not like Harry is just a random guy who's father happened to work with Richard Parker. No, we're told Norman is dying in TASM1, and we're pretty much shown that in TASM2, he shows and tells us Harry is dying too.

But we don't see Norman. We don't know Norman. He's just a faceless name in TASM. We don't care about him. Only Spider-Man fans would know the significance of who Norman Osborn is, but from the TASM movie perspective, he's nothing but a name. Harry was non existent in TASM. Then in TASM 2 we see him for one scene, along with his newly introduced son, all in their first scene, and we're told he's dying like we're supposed to give a damn. Instead of making the audience care. Harry is just an angry little *****e for the rest of the movie looking for a cure.

Harry and Peter being childhood friends, yeah that's kind of forced on us but it makes sense, their fathers worked together because they not only worked in the same place, but Richard Parker's research was being used to cure Norman, as we know from TASM1 so of course they worked together and their son's would've almost certainly interacted at some point and become friends.

I never said it didn't make sense that they had been friends once, I said we're just told they were, it's never developed, we're shown nothing of substance that shows they were friends other than one awful cheesy scene of 'friendly' interaction between them.

3: Yeah, no arguments here!

Yay, third time's a charm

It's actually great scene and good dialogue between them.

Yeah in the same universe where Halle Berry's Catwoman movie is the best CBM ever.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Here's my opinion on ASM2:

The biggest problem with this movie is that it didn't know what it wanted, so it tries throw everything at once to the point where the movie suffers greatly for it. Tonally, it bounces from serious to comedic several times to the point where it's jarring. Plot-wise, it's all over the place. You have Peter trying to take down Electro, disover secrets about his father, trying to figure out his relationship with Gwen Stacy; Harry trying to get Peter's blood while trying to stay alive (more on this later); Gwen trying to keep Peter in her life while contemplating leaving; Electro and his subplot; and on top of that, even Aunt May gets a subplot in a film chock full of subplots. The huge problem with this movie is that while this movie is full subplots, none of these subplots take a dominant enough role to be the main plot. Another poster said in this thread, and I believe it to be true, but Peter lacked a clear, defining arc. A lot of the movie feels like a setup for another.

Another problem I had were the villain turns. Electro's villain turn feels very rushed and forced. I know he had a subplot that dealt with his mother. If they took out the other subplots, they probably would have had time to develop Electro.

Harry's subplot could have been completely cut out. You don't need to force Harry to become Green Goblin in this movie. You have spent time developing Peter and Harry's friendship and have him turn on him in a sequel. There was no need to introduce Harry (with no mention of him before, but I'll let that slide), have him need Peter to give blood, panic about Peter's refusal (even though he has decades to find a cure in an era of even more advanced science), steal Peter's blood, become Green Goblin, kill Gwen Stacy, and begin laying the groundwork to start the sinister six all in one movie. That's all a plot for one movie, let alone a movie with several plots.

I don't hate the movie, because somewhere deeply buried within this movie is a good movie. I do find it very disappointing because this movie so crammed. All this movie needs is another rewrite, or at least another look in the editing room to possibly the best Spider-Man. Instead, it squandered its potential.

 

[OriginalMiles]

I can't speak for anyone who said they're not connected, but I'm saying they're badly/loosely connected. Perhaps that's what the others mean when they say they don't feel connected, as in connected properly.
Yes exactly.
Yes it is. I've already covered Harry in the previous post, so lets look at another one, like Electro. Spider-Man randomly bumps into some loser in the midst of an action scene with a comical comb over, gap teeth, 150 pens in his chest pocket, for about 20 seconds, and that's the crux of the Spider-Man/Electro relationship for the movie.
Yeah that's why people are rejoicing that Orci is gone. Because he's so good at natural story telling.
But we don't see Norman. We don't know Norman. He's just a faceless name in TASM. We don't care about him. Only Spider-Man fans would know the significance of who Norman Osborn is, but from the TASM movie perspective, he's nothing but a name. Harry was non existent in TASM. Then in TASM 2 we see him for one scene, along with his newly introduced son, all in their first scene, and we're told he's dying like we're supposed to give a damn. Instead of making the audience care. Harry is just an angry little *****e for the rest of the movie looking for a cure.
I never said it didn't make sense that they had been friends once, I said we're just told they were, it's never developed, we're shown nothing of substance that shows they were friends other than one awful cheesy scene of 'friendly' interaction between them.

Alright Joker, you've made your point. I cannot disagree with this or make another point, even though I thought they pulled it off pretty well.. I guess we should just leave it at that.

 

[The Joker]

Alright Joker, you've made your point. I cannot disagree with this or make another point, even though I thought they pulled it off pretty well.. I guess we should just leave it at that.

As you wish

 

[Andrew Lucas]

"none of the subplots are connected" is a complaint I've seen.

That's a lie... it all connects at some point.

Peter's personal quest joins up with Harry's when watching the video with Norman and Richard as Peter finds out more about his father, while Harry is looking for a cure.*

Electro's story connects with both Harry's story and Peter and Gwen's love story when Harry frees him (trying to get into Oscorp for a cure) and when he attacks the power plant leading to Peter and Gwen having to stop him (he causes her to go there, the place of her death).

Harry's quest connects to Peter's personal quest because Peter's father made the Spiders (and the venom) that transform Harry into Goblin, which leads him to kill Gwen (which connects it to Peter and Gwen's story).

Pretty much this

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Here's my opinion on ASM2:

Harry's subplot could have been completely cut out. You don't need to force Harry to become Green Goblin in this movie. You have spent time developing Peter and Harry's friendship and have him turn on him in a sequel. There was no need to introduce Harry (with no mention of him before, but I'll let that slide), have him need Peter to give blood, panic about Peter's refusal (even though he has decades to find a cure in an era of even more advanced science), steal Peter's blood, become Green Goblin, kill Gwen Stacy, and begin laying the groundwork to start the sinister six all in one movie. That's all a plot for one movie, let alone a movie with several plots.

Agreed.

Harry becoming GG was the most disappointing thing for me.

They should had developed their relationship more and make him GG on TASM3.

That would've be a lot better.

 

[Spider-knight]

let's just try and get along guys like how we usually do back in the day.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Green Goblin was pretty much Venom from SM3.

He appeared on the movie as a plot device to kill Gwen and got defeated in seconds.

Lame.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

Agreed.

Harry becoming GG was the most disappointing thing for me.

They should had developed their relationship more and make him GG on TASM3.

That would've be a lot better.

That would have given this movie a lot more breathing room also in which more focus could have been spent on developing Electro into a full fledged threat.

Instead of just saying "I have all these files and info people following you Peter," they should have spent a whole movie developing their friendship and lead up to that revelation. Keep Norman around, and if you want to kill him via disease, have him weakening in this movie. Show us what kind of character he was, show us more of Peter's friendship, and show us more of Harry finding out more about Peter Parker.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

He could also had discovered his disease on the after credits scenes I think, that would be much better than of what we got IMO.

Also,after asking Spider-Man blood every single scene with Harry makes the movie darker and gritty,not that I really mind but the energetic and colorful vibe from the start quickly dissapeared,it came back after Peter reconciled with Gwen (Started to crack jokes) but BAM....depression again.

 

[Spider-knight]

the funny thing is when you notice most of the scenes cut out like when harry and peter kept talking it felt like they were developing as friends. infact, someone on this forum stated in a commentary that there was a flashback scene of harry and peter as kids and they have such a nice moment being kids and even playing some chess while norman watches them.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Green Goblin was pretty much Venom from SM3.

He appeared on the movie as a plot device to kill Gwen and got defeated in seconds.

Lame.

Venom at least got a great birth scene and a better fight.

 

[Spider-knight]

i also would've thought that harry would've gotten the disease in the after credit scene thanks to an incident with electro