Sci-Fi Dune

[Monsieur Xavier]

It's not a really vision of a burned hand. The box basically "simulates" the pain. It makes Paul feel like his hand is being to its very bone. So imagine you're being tortured and forced to put your hand in like piranha or shark tank and your hand is getting ripped to shreds and if you so much as move, you're a dead man. So arguably Paul good be envisioning in his head his hand is being burned. But the sensation is supposed to be the simulated pain is so intense that his hand is burning so badly the flesh is being burned off. This was really Paul's moment, not Jessica's. Jessica figures into the aftermath of that moment. I don't like the scene because it undercuts Paul's development. Also, Paul does NOT use the Litany Against Fear. Only Jessica does.

We never hear Paul recite the Litany once.

To add to your comment: RM Mohiam doesn't even acknowledge that she is impressed by how much pain Paul was able to sustain, no "Kull Wahad! no woman child ever withstood that much" line from her.
The box provides pain by nerve induction.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

Has this been posted here? I don't agree with some of the stuff he says but it's still interesting to hear what the editor has to say.

 

[Comicbookguy339]

He mentions that a big question was how to start the film. But sth that struck me as a little funny is that he mentions the shot of Leto putting his hand on Jessica's neck as the servants are packing their belongings on Caladan. That was actually one of the most awkward edits in the film imo. In the trailer we see a wideshot of Jessica standing there and Leto walking up to her but in the film it's just a close-up of Jessica and then someone's hand coming into frame.

 

[henzINNIT]

Jessica is useful during the 'pain box' sequence. Her fear of it builds tension for Paul, who has no idea what he's in for. She is also allowed to have more reaction to the pain than Paul is, to help sell it. It's a very 'book' sequence that you can tell would be much more evocative in text than in film. Considering the dynamic action of this scene is 'boy puts hand in a box and stands still', I think Villeneuve did a pretty great job. Not the only way to do that scene, sure, but it worked well enough for me.

 

[Mjolnir Reborn]

It's not a really vision of a burned hand. The box basically "simulates" the pain. It makes Paul feel like his hand is being burned to its very bone. So imagine you're being tortured and forced to put your hand in like piranha or shark tank and your hand is getting ripped to shreds and if you so much as move, you're a dead man. So arguably Paul could be envisioning in his head his hand is being burned. But the sensation is supposed to be the simulated pain is so intense that his hand is burning so badly the flesh is being burned off. This was really Paul's moment, not Jessica's. Jessica figures into the aftermath of that moment. I don't like the scene because it undercuts Paul's development. Also, Paul does NOT use the Litany Against Fear. Only Jessica does.

We never hear Paul recite the Litany once.

I know what the box does. I just pointed out that among the visions Paul is getting in the scene one is of a burned hand and I think that's a nod to the book readers.

And as said, I think it comes off as Paul's moment and Jessica just adds the sense of the stakes of what Paul is going through in the ritual and through who he is. Just because it's about Paul doesn't mean that it can't show things about other characters. The point isn't to argue about whether something is good or bad though, that's pretty pointless. My point was that I, as one not having read the book, still got the intended messages (as explained by book readers) and didn't feel it was a scene about Jessica.

 

[TheVileOne]

I know what the box does. I just pointed out that among the visions Paul is getting in the scene one is of a burned hand and I think that's a nod to the book readers.

And as said, I think it comes off as Paul's moment and Jessica just adds the sense of the stakes of what Paul is going through in the ritual and through who he is. Just because it's about Paul doesn't mean that it can't show things about other characters. The point isn't to argue about whether something is good or bad though, that's pretty pointless. My point was that I, as one not having read the book, still got the intended messages (as explained by book readers) and didn't feel it was a scene about Jessica.

I still didn't care for the execution.

 

[Blade Hoarder]

Jessica is useful during the 'pain box' sequence. Her fear of it builds tension for Paul, who has no idea what he's in for. She is also allowed to have more reaction to the pain than Paul is, to help sell it. It's a very 'book' sequence that you can tell would be much more evocative in text than in film. Considering the dynamic action of this scene is 'boy puts hand in a box and stands still', I think Villeneuve did a pretty great job. Not the only way to do that scene, sure, but it worked well enough for me.

spot on. In a film, reaction shots are worth a thousand words. Since Denis decided to forgo the narration, using Jessica’s reactions were a great sub.

 

[TheVileOne]

Jessica is useful during the 'pain box' sequence. Her fear of it builds tension for Paul, who has no idea what he's in for. She is also allowed to have more reaction to the pain than Paul is, to help sell it. It's a very 'book' sequence that you can tell would be much more evocative in text than in film. Considering the dynamic action of this scene is 'boy puts hand in a box and stands still', I think Villeneuve did a pretty great job. Not the only way to do that scene, sure, but it worked well enough for me.

I think the fear is well stated established enough for Jessica beforehand. I wanted to see Paul enduring the pain and chanting the Litany himself and feel and smell the flesh of his hand, his hand being burned to the very bone. I didn't feel like I got it.

Secondly, they do not showcase the Weirding Way.

 

[OutOfBoose]

They show Jessica as a trained fighter. They show complex fighting choreography during one of Paul's visions. They might explore it further in part 2. Again, they wanted to clear the script from too many weird terms which are hard to remember for a casual viewer.

 

[TheVileOne]

They show Jessica as a trained fighter. They show complex fighting choreography during one of Paul's visions. They might explore it further in part 2. Again, they wanted to clear the script from too many weird terms which are hard to remember for a casual viewer.

Except that's not the Weirding Way.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Except that's not the Weirding Way.

What does Jessica do to subdue Stilgar?

 

[TheVileOne]

What does Jessica do to subdue Stilgar?

A flip.

 

[OutOfBoose]

A flip.

And what's this weirding way they needed to show but didn't?

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

And what's this weirding way they needed to show but didn't?

The Weirding Way is the Bene Gesserit close combat fighting techniques.
It's part of the absolute control of muscles and nerve that the Sisters teach.
An adept of the Weirding Way can strike blows at super human speed and to the observer, moves as if teleporting.

Part of it is also "metaphysical": mind over matter.

Excerpt from Weirding Way

The key axiom of the Weirding Way was "my mind affects my reality." By imagining oneself suddenly at a nearby location an adept could bypass the laws of physics and make themselves arrive there almost instantaneously.​

I would have liked to see it in this movie. The TV show tried but it wasn't great given the budget and medium.

Edit: Villeneuve could not go in depth will all the technical stuff of the Bene Gesserit, I can understand that.

 

[OutOfBoose]

The Weirding Way is the Bene Gesserit close combat fighting techniques.
It's part of the absolute control of muscles and nerve that the Sisters teach.
An adept of the Weirding Way can strike blows at super human speed and to the observer, moves as if teleporting.

Part of it is also "metaphysical": mind over matter.

Excerpt from Weirding Way

The key axiom of the Weirding Way was "my mind affects my reality." By imagining oneself suddenly at a nearby location an adept could bypass the laws of physics and make themselves arrive there almost instantaneously.​

I would have liked to see it in this movie. The TV show tried but it wasn't great given the budget and medium.

Edit: Villeneuve could not go in depth will all the technical stuff of the Bene Gesserit, I can understand that.

I see. Well, I don't remember any of it in the book, but I took it as Jessica demonstrated exceptional technique and manipulation of the opponent, not Matrix-like movement as shown in TV series.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

I see. Well, I don't remember any of it in the book, but I took it as Jessica demonstrated exceptional technique and manipulation of the opponent, not Matrix-like movement as shown in TV series.

Bold: didn't saw that in the movie except when she used The Voice in the orni when they are to be left in the desert with Paul.
I'm not a fan of Jessica in this movie and also not a fan of how The Bene Gesserit is presented. Book to movie compromises are what they are and I understand that.

Edit: in the book, how dangerous the BG are in combat is just told but in Paul vs Jamis fight you can see it (The Weirding Way). Paul is said to be leaping, jumping reacting super fast.

 

[Weather Witch]

Bold: didn't saw that in the movie (...) Paul vs Jamis fight you can see it (The Weirding Way). Paul is said to be leaping, jumping reacting super fast.

Both Paul and Jessica do some very exceptional moves in the initial showdown with Stilgar and the Fremen, they just aren't super long shots. Stilgar literally goes "you didn't tell me you were a weirding woman" as a result of those physical moves she does there.

But, yeah, this movie managed to sell the audience on a lot of things already. The rest is wisely left for the sequel.

 

[Man in the Suit]

Watched it again on HBO Max. I can confirm this movie still rules.

 

[TheVileOne]

Both Paul and Jessica do some very exceptional moves in the initial showdown with Stilgar and the Fremen, they just aren't super long shots. Stilgar literally goes "you didn't tell me you were a weirding woman" as a result of those physical moves she does there.

But, yeah, this movie managed to sell the audience on a lot of things already. The rest is wisely left for the sequel.

What they did was not what I would consider Weirding Way. If that's their interpretation of Weirding Way, I'm highly disappointed.

 

[Marvolo]

What they did was not what I would consider Weirding Way. If that's their interpretation of Weirding Way, I'm highly disappointed.

The fight between Jamis and Paul was lame. Both the setup and the choreography. Jessica besting Stilgar was cool tho.

 

[Weather Witch]

What they did was not what I would consider Weirding Way. If that's their interpretation of Weirding Way, I'm highly disappointed.

It's them briefly touching on the concept, same as with the mentats. So they don't skip over it, but still allow themselves time to properly build on it for the sequel. It isn't a case of "this is our full interpretation of the Weirding Way", but more a "wow only someone who knows the Weirding Way could pull this off".

Edit: I've been giving this a lot of thought, but let's see what this movie has tried to sell general audiences on so far:

Spoiler

• Spice
• Different planets
• The Emporer, Dukes and Great Houses
  
• Atreides and Harkonnen
• Fremen and Sardukaur
• A huge cast of characters
• The Voice
• Bene Gesserit
• Shields, Lasers, Crysknives, and various types of weaponry
• Thopters, Crawlers and various other vehicles
• The Box and Gom Jabbar
• Other tech like Hunter-Seekers, Filmbooks and Suspensor Lamps
• Stillsuits, Stilltent and the importance (and recycling) of water
• Sandworms and riding them, Wormsign, Spotters, Worm territory etc.
• Sand Walk, Sand Compactors, Drum Sand
• Fremen terminology like Amtal and Sietches
• Everything related to The One / Kwisatz Haderach / Lisan al Gaib
• Paul's visions of possible futures
• A holy war

All while also telling a coherent story, adapting most major beats from the book, and throwing in smaller character moments and little details. Sure people complain about the absence of Feyd-Rautha and Princess Irulan and lack of screentime for:

• Spacing guild (though that's mostly due to the 80s film, not the book)
• Breeding programs / Augmentation / Mentats etc.
• Weirding Way

None of these were explained that in-depth in the part of the book that this adapts, and these things are at least touched upon in the movie, while leaving those two characters for later.

For a 155 minute runtime it honestly crams in an insane amount of concepts, and more importantly, properly sells a general audience on these concepts. Everything else will come in due time. This way they'll have some new tricks for part 2/3 and the Sisterhood series as well. We got a lot of good things here and we have a lot more to look forward to.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

These sort of discussions are funny, seeing someone give a movie a high grade then basically just spend many pages talking about how bad things were.

 

[TheVileOne]

These sort of discussions are funny, seeing someone give a movie a high grade then basically just spend many pages talking about how bad things were.

I've talked about many things I like about the film. But this is also my favorite book of all time, so these elements stand out and if they are making the sequel, I want them fixed.

 

[Persona]

I really did not like Zimmer's score for this and how it was used. So overbearing. Some dialogue was quite hard to hear and I was getting Tenet flashbacks, though obviously not that bad.

It's a neat movie in how it is designed (particularly the sound and production design) and the sense of scale but I don't think I will be coming back to it a lot. The storytelling, pacing, rhythms, characters, action... all a little flat. Villeneuve does great with putting together big images and how he realizes some of the details in scenes... but the dream vision stuff, dramatic scenes, hand to hand combat, and so on all felt a little tepid and uninspired, though certainly the craft is always there to some degree. I definitely enjoyed the theatrical experience but I don't think this is one I will watch at home more than once.

 

[Persona]

I really thought when

Spoiler

Duncan rises up for his final stand he was gonna grab the laser cutter and take down a slew of Sardaukar. Would have been a cool way to punctuate the end of that scene and given it a little more tangible of an action beat.