Batwoman Episode 01/03 "Down, Down, Down"

[Dr.]

As the city waits impatiently for another visit from who they think is Batman, Alice (Rachel Skarsten) continues to taunt Kate (Ruby Rose) with a secret but also sets her sights on Jacob (Dougray Scott) and Catherine (Elizabeth Anweis). Kate is visited by Tommy Elliot (guest star Gabriel Mann), a childhood friend of her cousin who has finally realized his lifelong dream of being wealthier than Bruce Wayne and throws a party so all of Gotham can celebrate his success. Mary (Nicole Kang) gets an unexpected new bestie when Sophie (Meagan Tandy) is assigned to protect her. Luke (Camrus Johnson) and Kate work together to uncover who may have taken a valuable weapon from Batman’s arsenal. And as Batwoman faces a new enemy, Kate realizes she must either walk away from her new role or fully embrace the mantle as Gotham’s new hope. Dermott Downs directed the episode written by Holly Henderson and Don Whitehead.

 

[Web-Head]

I think each episode has gotten a little bit better so far. I'm still not sold on Ruby as Kate, but I like the supporting cast for the most part - especially Luke and I thought Tommy was pretty good.

Riddler reference!

I'll stick with the show for now and might stick it out for the whole season, we'll see. Things should get more interesting with Alice going forward.

 

[Snow Queen]

I don't think I'm ever going to quite get over that someone wrote one of their series/season villains saying "Bestest" during a supposedly dramatic scene.

The last half of the episode is...awkward. They throw in this ticking clock element of a sort, get Batman here or Tommy starts dropping elevators, but then he gives her the time to takes the stairs from a penthouse in a high rise building, stop in the lobby to tell EMTs to do the job they were already on their way to do, get to Wayne Enterprises, repair a bullet hole in the suit, spray paint the suit, go out and buy a wig from party city, and get back. Due to how they chose to put it together, it never really feels like anyone's in any significant danger (beyond the obvious expectation the two with the major characters will be just fine because it's episode 3 of a TV show they want to last seasons) and serves to make Tommy feel laughable ineffectual.

They've really made the whole Kate/Alice dynamic feel super awkward. They're constantly hanging out casually, talking, and now two episodes in a row have ended with Kate just letting her go to undoubtedly murder more people, including outright stating she would do so in this episode. It doesn't help that neither actor is turning in a very good performance, so you've just got a forced crazy act bouncing off a block of wood.

 

[Frodo]

The guy who played Tommy was on Revenge for years. Ironically ,I think he could play a good Joker , but he was a good Tommy Elliot . I think the show is getting better and I feel like its sort of coming together more and more . I think its finding its stride and seems more like they know where they're going while ,the pilot felt like a bit of a jumble .

I still think there are probably too many supporting characters at this early , but I think as long as they don't make them inter-changeable in terms of their functions and personalities,they can make it work.

 

[Frodo]

They've really made the whole Kate/Alice dynamic feel super awkward. They're constantly hanging out casually, talking, and now two episodes in a row have ended with Kate just letting her go to undoubtedly murder more people, including outright stating she would do so in this episode. It doesn't help that neither actor is turning in a very good performance, so you've just got a forced crazy act bouncing off a block of wood.

Well , I think they're taking the approach almost of the Catwoman and Batman dynamic. They're on opposite sides of the law and see the world pretty differently, but its clear they both care about each , and that they want to have some type of relationship. So they aren't foes in the usual sense of the CWverse shows . They're sisters and that comes first before the madness that surrounds them , so even though Kate doesn't like what Alice does, she still loves her, and visa versa.

I guess the question for me is why Kate wants to be Batwoman. I think her character is well defined and I can understand her relationships and dynamics with the other characters on the show.

I still don't quite know why she wants to put on the suit. With Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, and Black Lightening ,I got a sense of why they were doing what they're doing from the jump , but with Kate, I still don't get a sense of what that extra thing is that motivates her to want to be Batwoman or a suited crimefighter in general. Maybe once they define who Batwoman is it will become clearer to me.

 

[Flash525]

I’m still not feeling this one in honesty. I zoned out 2/3 the way through the episode and started browsing here and DeviantArt.

Ruby does nothing for the character of Batwoman, there’s too many awkward scenes, everyone seems to know Kate’s secret already, and there’s just no spark with the show.

There’s little point in slating it, I’m just going to tune out and take her part in the crossover as a mere supporting character, no more vital that Jonah Hex or Smallville Clark.

 

[Sithborg]

Still here mainly for Alice and Mary. Rose has reached "tolerable", so she isn't going to actively drive me away.

I did like the reasoning behind actually differentiating herself from Bruce. If the way they presented it was... rushed.

 

[Karelia]

I think each episode has gotten a little bit better so far. I'm still not sold on Ruby as Kate, but I like the supporting cast for the most part - especially Luke and I thought Tommy was pretty good.

Riddler reference!

I'll stick with the show for now and might stick it out for the whole season, we'll see. Things should get more interesting with Alice going forward.

I agree with all of what you said. It was cool to see the Batwoman suit though.

 

[Snow Queen]

Well , I think they're taking the approach almost of the Catwoman and Batman dynamic. They're on opposite sides of the law and see the world pretty differently, but its clear they both care about each , and that they want to have some type of relationship. So they aren't foes in the usual sense of the CWverse shows . They're sisters and that comes first before the madness that surrounds them , so even though Kate doesn't like what Alice does, she still loves her, and visa versa.

I guess the question for me is why Kate wants to be Batwoman. I think her character is well defined and I can understand her relationships and dynamics with the other characters on the show.

I still don't quite know why she wants to put on the suit. With Arrow, Flash, Supergirl, and Black Lightening ,I got a sense of why they were doing what they're doing from the jump , but with Kate, I still don't get a sense of what that extra thing is that motivates her to want to be Batwoman or a suited crimefighter in general. Maybe once they define who Batwoman is it will become clearer to me.

I think, if that's what they're going for, it's just not working. The problem with comparing it to Batman and Catwoman is that usually, when writers want to focus on that relationship, they tend to focus on the thief angle. Here, instead, we have Kate openly letting a terrorist who attempted to blow up a park full of people go right after she outright states she will continue murdering people. I definitely agree they're going for complicated enemies, they're sisters so they care about each other even with all the murder, but it's just not landing for me. I think it's a side effect of how they've chosen to portray Alice so far, really. It comes off less like letting a jewel thief like Catwoman go, or even someone who's also a victim in this situation like comics Alice (leaving aside different circumstances in status quo and post-reveal stuff), and more like she keeps letting the Joker off the hook because they're related.

Now this, I absolutely agree with. I can see how they got into that situation, but so far it all does come off as rooted in an unfortunate amount of self-interest or only caring when it has an effect on her. Which can work as an arc, but I'm not sure if it's supposed to actually feel like that.

 

[Frodo]

I think, if that's what they're going for, it's just not working. The problem with comparing it to Batman and Catwoman is that usually, when writers want to focus on that relationship, they tend to focus on the thief angle. Here, instead, we have Kate openly letting a terrorist who attempted to blow up a park full of people go right after she outright states she will continue murdering people. I definitely agree they're going for complicated enemies, they're sisters so they care about each other even with all the murder, but it's just not landing for me. I think it's a side effect of how they've chosen to portray Alice so far, really. It comes off less like letting a jewel thief like Catwoman go, or even someone who's also a victim in this situation like comics Alice (leaving aside different circumstances in status quo and post-reveal stuff), and more like she keeps letting the Joker off the hook because they're related.

Now this, I absolutely agree with. I can see how they got into that situation, but so far it all does come off as rooted in an unfortunate amount of self-interest or only caring when it has an effect on her. Which can work as an arc, but I'm not sure if it's supposed to actually feel like that.

I think your criticisms are valid. To be clear ,I used the Batman and Catwoman analogy because that's the closet one I can think of to describe what the writers are attempting to do. A better analogy may be Spike and Angel in Buffy or Louie and Lestat in Interview with a Vampire .

I guess the whole Kate kinda just "dealing with Alice's behavior" , for lack of a better way of putting it, doesn't bother me so much since Kate's character with regards to justice, the law , and duty is isn't all that clear to me.

If she were defined as sharply as Batman is in that respect ,and I knew she really had a code of ethics and principles, it would stand out more to me in terms of how her character should/would react. Now that's not to give the writers as pass on something they need to address. It comes from my own lack of clarity of what Kate's goal is as Batwoman. Or , put another way , what Batwoman's goal and purpose is.

I don't think they have a handle on what this Batwoman's code as a hero is . Is she morally grey when it comes to dealing with criminals? Is she suiting up to protect Gotham or just those she cares about?

I think the writers know who their Kate Kane is , but I don't think they have a handle or know yet , on who their Batwoman is.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I don't think I'm ever going to quite get over that someone wrote one of their series/season villains saying "Bestest" during a supposedly dramatic scene.

 

[Sithborg]

I think, if that's what they're going for, it's just not working. The problem with comparing it to Batman and Catwoman is that usually, when writers want to focus on that relationship, they tend to focus on the thief angle. Here, instead, we have Kate openly letting a terrorist who attempted to blow up a park full of people go right after she outright states she will continue murdering people. I definitely agree they're going for complicated enemies, they're sisters so they care about each other even with all the murder, but it's just not landing for me. I think it's a side effect of how they've chosen to portray Alice so far, really. It comes off less like letting a jewel thief like Catwoman go, or even someone who's also a victim in this situation like comics Alice (leaving aside different circumstances in status quo and post-reveal stuff), and more like she keeps letting the Joker off the hook because they're related.

Now this, I absolutely agree with. I can see how they got into that situation, but so far it all does come off as rooted in an unfortunate amount of self-interest or only caring when it has an effect on her. Which can work as an arc, but I'm not sure if it's supposed to actually feel like that.

I am really hoping that they depict it more of her selfish behavior. I know what they said about her motivations for changing the look, but there is also a streak of selfishness to it.

Though I admit, the main reason I want them to deal with it is to diverge from the god damn "love triangle".

 

[Snow Queen]

I am really hoping that they depict it more of her selfish behavior. I know what they said about her motivations for changing the look, but there is also a streak of selfishness to it.

Though I admit, the main reason I want them to deal with it is to diverge from the god damn "love triangle".

I agree that there is definitely a bit of that to it. It's an odd choice and not one I'd do, but I just hope that they realize they're doing it and can make an arc out of it that could redeem it as a starting point. I'm just not super convinced so far they're entirely aware of how she's coming off. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Anything for that.

 

[Sithborg]

Yeah, I'm not super confident in the writers here.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I don't think I'm ever going to quite get over that someone wrote one of their series/season villains saying "Bestest" during a supposedly dramatic scene.

The last half of the episode is...awkward. They throw in this ticking clock element of a sort, get Batman here or Tommy starts dropping elevators, but then he gives her the time to takes the stairs from a penthouse in a high rise building, stop in the lobby to tell EMTs to do the job they were already on their way to do, get to Wayne Enterprises, repair a bullet hole in the suit, spray paint the suit, go out and buy a wig from party city, and get back. Due to how they chose to put it together, it never really feels like anyone's in any significant danger (beyond the obvious expectation the two with the major characters will be just fine because it's episode 3 of a TV show they want to last seasons) and serves to make Tommy feel laughable ineffectual.

They've really made the whole Kate/Alice dynamic feel super awkward. They're constantly hanging out casually, talking, and now two episodes in a row have ended with Kate just letting her go to undoubtedly murder more people, including outright stating she would do so in this episode. It doesn't help that neither actor is turning in a very good performance, so you've just got a forced crazy act bouncing off a block of wood.

We are like 3 episodes away from this Black Mask:

 

[Snow Queen]

We are like 3 episodes away from this Black Mask:

Where'd this Birds of Prey footage come from?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Where'd this Birds of Prey footage come from?

It was hand delivered by this guy, from this very boat.

It was weird though. He wouldn't stop complaining about WB and how it should have been his...

 

[Frodo]

Though I admit, the main reason I want them to deal with it is to diverge from the god damn "love triangle".

Lol. Unfortunately, love triangles are sort of the bane, no pun intended , of the CW superhero shows. Clark Lana and Whitney, Oliver Laurel and Tommy, Barry Iris and Eddie, Kara Jimmy and Lucy,

These writers always attempt to pull it off, and they always tend to fall flat, and be annoying at best.

Black Lightening pretty much avoided it thankfully. I don't know about LOT.

 

[Sithborg]

LOT had the Hawks. We do not speak of the Hawks.

Ironically, the Kara, Jimmy, Lucy stuff wasn't CW. Season 3, however...

 

[Lencho01]

The episode was ok, I guess. I think after 3 so far, I'm just going to expect the whole show to be as lifeless as its version of Gotham.

 

[Dark Raven]

The guy who played Tommy was on Revenge for years. Ironically ,I think he could play a good Joker , but he was a good Tommy Elliot . I think the show is getting better and I feel like its sort of coming together more and more . I think its finding its stride and seems more like they know where they're going while ,the pilot felt like a bit of a jumble .

I still think there are probably too many supporting characters at this early , but I think as long as they don't make them inter-changeable in terms of their functions and personalities,they can make it work.

I wonder if Gabriel Mann was meant to be another subtle TDK reference. After all, his character was named Nolan on Revenge.

Is Kate Kane going to date Reagan? Or is Reagan going to end up dying?

Slightly better than the previous episodes but still bland. Ruby Rose is not a good actress.

At least we finally see the Batwoman costume. But I wish it weren't as rushed. Why did she choose red? And the wig seems like it might not be in character with her. Did it look like that exactly in the Elseworlds crossover?