Superman Returns Estimate SR profit

[bud7486]

I have heard alot of arguments about this, so lets hear everyones opinion. If you have facts please state them. My estimate is that it will do just under $100 million in profit maybe $97mill.

 

[FanboyX_Returns]

I have heard alot of arguments about this, so lets hear everyones opinion. If you have facts please state them. My estimate is that it will do just under $100 million in profit maybe $97mill.

It will eventually turn a profit but it's going to be a while I say by this time next year they would have maybe turn a 20-50 million profit after enough time dvd sales should help it enough.

But I don't expect them to make a whole lot...

 

[KalMart]

Real profit starts after you gross twice your investment, in economics/business terms. $204 for production....how much for distribution and marketing? Say another $100M or so? So $300-320M ballpark total (not counting a lot of other things). It sold $391M worldwide in tickets, but not all of that went back to the studio. With DVD sales and such, it'll have to gross around $600M to really 'break even' before real profit starts. What is it at now?

 

[FanboyX_Returns]

Real profit starts after you gross twice your investment, in economics/business terms. $204 for production....how much for distribution and marketing? Say another $100M or so? So $300-320M ballpark total (not counting a lot of other things). It sold $391M worldwide in tickets, but not all of that went back to the studio. With DVD sales and such, it'll have to gross around $600M to really 'break even' before real profit starts. What is it at now?

Somewhere in the 400-480million range... It's got a long way to go before they can say that its made them a profit.
That's with international, and domestic boxoffice, and dvd sales.

 

[matthooper]

I have a question. With Superman returns budget at about $200 million, that is a studio estimate, and marketing between $70 million - $100 million, again from various studio estimates the question I ask is this......

Where in the world did all that money go? Everyone knows the marketing failures, but $70-100 million for marketing is a lot. What happened? As far as the production budget, that $200 million does NOT take in to account any other attemps. That number is the budget given to Singer. What happened to the money? It certainly isn't seen on screen. Even the lovers of the film must acknowledge the discrepancy between the budget and the final film. Even taking into account the $10 million wasted journey scene.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

Real profit starts after you gross twice your investment, in economics/business terms. $204 for production....how much for distribution and marketing? Say another $100M or so? So $300-320M ballpark total (not counting a lot of other things). It sold $391M worldwide in tickets, but not all of that went back to the studio. With DVD sales and such, it'll have to gross around $600M to really 'break even' before real profit starts. What is it at now?

Well, it's made $391 million worldwide (that in itself is just about enough to cover the production costs), then you have the $92 million in DVD sales thus far (these are only the domestic figures, btw), the $50 million in rentals, plus another $25 million for television rights, plus ancillary sales. Based on the rough numbers, SR seems to be in the profitable range now. Again, this is without further DVD numbers (e.g. numbers since the sales report and without the sales overseas).

 

[matthooper]

Well, it's made $391 million worldwide (that in itself is just about enough to cover the production costs), then you have the $92 million in DVD sales thus far (these are only the domestic figures, btw), the $50 million in rentals, plus another $25 million for television rights, plus ancillary sales. Based on the rough numbers, SR seems to be in the profitable range now. Again, this is without further DVD numbers (e.g. numbers since the sales report and without the sales overseas).

Don't forget the $100 million marketing budget for the theatrical release.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

Don't forget the $100 million marketing budget for the theatrical release.

Well you figure $391 million is just under twice the production budget. So the lot of the $92 million and $50 million in sales and rentals definitely goes toward the marketing cost, and then like I said the ancillary sales and the $25 million for television rights just add to it.

Not sure if Pay-Per-View counts separately or as rentals, but if not then there's that money too. SR's at least earned a bit of profit by now.

 

[matthooper]

You are probably right in your opinion. It's probably at or near the profitable range now. But even you have to admit it is $100 million (at a minimum) from where it should have been.

 

[Freddy_Krueger]

You are probably right in your opinion. It's probably at or near the profitable range now. But even you have to admit it is $100 million (at a minimum) from where it should have been.

Well yeah, of course. I'm not saying that SR is this great huge success. It definitely disappointed box office wise. WB certainly wanted it to make more than it did. But c'est la vie. Things happen. But if they make the sequel more appealing to the general audience, like I think they will, then I don't think the franchise will have anything to worry about.

 

[matthooper]

Like I said, it could have made $400 million domestic or $5 million domestic for all I cared. I was dissapointed in the film and box office figures can't change that.

Making it more apealing for the general audience could mean we get a film I like even less. The studio will want more action, but to me the lack of action was just one of many failures. I'd like Singer to start with some good writers with some good ideas. Unfortunately, half the sequel will have to deal with the kid, Richard and Lex.

 

[KalMart]

I have a question. With Superman returns budget at about $200 million, that is a studio estimate, and marketing between $70 million - $100 million, again from various studio estimates the question I ask is this......

Where in the world did all that money go? Everyone knows the marketing failures, but $70-100 million for marketing is a lot. What happened?

Worldwide marketing, buying TV time like everyone else, producing and distributing trailers, posters/displays/toys/product tie-ins/etc.

As far as the production budget, that $200 million does NOT take in to account any other attemps. That number is the budget given to Singer. What happened to the money? It certainly isn't seen on screen. Even the lovers of the film must acknowledge the discrepancy between the budget and the final film. Even taking into account the $10 million wasted journey scene.

There is still no sure way of knowing what dollar amount results in what onsreen. If that were the case, we should be able to see a movie without knowing how much it cost to make, and estimate the budget based on what we saw. Perhaps a lot more time spent developing new effects/wire-rigs/sets, then the time needed for R&D and training, and a premium paid for just man-hours. Sure, you could look at SR and say that we didn't see a '$200M movie', but how miuch it cost isn't really our concern unless we hld stock in WB or what not. Did we like it or not? Not every action-adventure movie costs the same to make per detail. That said...$200M does seem like a lot for what we got.

 

[KalMart]

Well, it's made $391 million worldwide (that in itself is just about enough to cover the production costs), then you have the $92 million in DVD sales thus far (these are only the domestic figures, btw), the $50 million in rentals, plus another $25 million for television rights, plus ancillary sales. Based on the rough numbers, SR seems to be in the profitable range now. Again, this is without further DVD numbers (e.g. numbers since the sales report and without the sales overseas).

I forgot how the percentages change over the course of a film's run, but how much of the $391 in ticket sales actually went back to the studio?

 

[matthooper]

I forgot how the percentages change over the course of a film's run, but how much of the $391 in ticket sales actually went back to the studio?

It usually averages out to about half.

 

[KalMart]

Any way you look at it, they've got a ways to go.

Despite the grievances that some fans had with its opening so close to POTC2, it's hard to argue releasing the DVD so close to the holidays. That must've helped. Helped POTC2 as well, though.

 

[FanboyX_Returns]

I forgot how the percentages change over the course of a film's run, but how much of the $391 in ticket sales actually went back to the studio?

A little less then half of that... The studios get 50% of the ticket revenue back from theaters, and theaters keep the other 50%. That's in the USA.
Outside the united states they get from 25% - 30% depends on the country also.

Some places don't even get to 25% of the ticket revenue back because of this studios which produce movie's like Superman worry more about it's boxoffice numbers here at home, and not overseas.
That's why they said that it needs to pass 200million US money for them to consider doing a sequel, and not "it needs to make 400million world wide for us to consider a sequel." They know they won't get much money from the oversea's market, and while those numbers really add to the movie's boxoffice legacy (or lack of one) in studio terms it's not as important as what the movie makes here.

Now don't get me wrong It's still is important, and there's movies which make as much or more boxoffice from outside the USA then here but since the studio see's less of that money then they do the American money well you know where their priority's stand.

I used to manage for AMC theaters, and know a little how it works...
So from 391million that it made world wide it made a little less then half of that for the studios in return.... The box office alone might have brought back in about 150million - 170million

Like I said eventually they will turn a profit... But the movie should have made more then a profit just on it's USA boxoffice like how Pirates 2 did, and how Spiderman 1 & 2 did.

The truth is that it didn't, and the studio's or Singer won't ever admit to it they will sweep it under the rug, and try again.
The only clue's that they know it failed, and will be hard to turn a profit is that the sequel will have a shorter running time, and it will have a smaller budget.

These things mean that they hope to make a smaller movie with more action to try, and see if it turns a profit, and if they can save the franchise.

For now the Superman franchise is on life support thanks to Superman Returns, and if the next one brings in for example a box office total less then SR did even with the smaller budget the studio won't let Singer make another movie.

Heck from what the majority of the fans feel they shouldn't let him make another Superman movie now as it is... They must see something that the rest of the world doesn't see in Singer, and his Superman.

One thing tho to everyone at the WB... GET BETTER WRITERS!

 

[lexlives]

A little less then half of that... The studios get 50% of the ticket revenue back from theaters, and theaters keep the other 50%. That's in the USA.
Outside the united states they get from 25% - 30% depends on the country also.

Some places don't even get to 25% of the ticket revenue back because of this studios which produce movie's like Superman worry more about it's boxoffice numbers here at home, and not overseas.
That's why they said that it needs to pass 200million US money for them to consider doing a sequel, and not "it needs to make 400million world wide for us to consider a sequel." They know they won't get much money from the oversea's market, and while those numbers really add to the movie's boxoffice legacy (or lack of one) in studio terms it's not as important as what the movie makes here.

Now don't get me wrong It's still is important, and there's movies which make as much or more boxoffice from outside the USA then here but since the studio see's less of that money then they do the American money well you know where their priority's stand.

I used to manage for AMC theaters, and know a little how it works...
So from 391million that it made world wide it made a little less then half of that for the studios in return.... The box office alone might have brought back in about 150million - 170million

Like I said eventually they will turn a profit... But the movie should have made more then a profit just on it's USA boxoffice like how Pirates 2 did, and how Spiderman 1 & 2 did.

The truth is that it didn't, and the studio's or Singer won't ever admit to it they will sweep it under the rug, and try again.
The only clue's that they know it failed, and will be hard to turn a profit is that the sequel will have a shorter running time, and it will have a smaller budget.

These things mean that they hope to make a smaller movie with more action to try, and see if it turns a profit, and if they can save the franchise.

For now the Superman franchise is on life support thanks to Superman Returns, and if the next one brings in for example a box office total less then SR did even with the smaller budget the studio won't let Singer make another movie.

Heck from what the majority of the fans feel they shouldn't let him make another Superman movie now as it is... They must see something that the rest of the world doesn't see in Singer, and his Superman.

One thing tho to everyone at the WB... GET BETTER WRITERS!

Good points.

SR will end up with a small profit - less than 50 million certainly while BB did over 200 million in profit and FF even more.

If they green-light a sequel they must have faith, but the failure of the DVD sales has to be a shock for WB and indicates a sequel will do just around 200 million and basically kill off the franchise for good.

Horn knows the numbers - take this to the bank - in the end a sequel will not get a green light. Best thing for WB, but even better thing for fans. And some who do not see so now will see so in hindsight.

 

[Mr. Socko]

How did FF do that much in profit?

 

[lexlives]

I have a question. With Superman returns budget at about $200 million, that is a studio estimate, and marketing between $70 million - $100 million, again from various studio estimates the question I ask is this......

Where in the world did all that money go? Everyone knows the marketing failures, but $70-100 million for marketing is a lot. What happened? As far as the production budget, that $200 million does NOT take in to account any other attemps. That number is the budget given to Singer. What happened to the money? It certainly isn't seen on screen. Even the lovers of the film must acknowledge the discrepancy between the budget and the final film. Even taking into account the $10 million wasted journey scene.

Its worse than that friend - Singer was given 223 million and spent that. The 200 million figure is after the 22 or so million tax credit they got for shooting in Australia. Actual money spent though was 220 million plus - where in the he** did that money go?!

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

Some places don't even get to 25% of the ticket revenue back because of this studios which produce movie's like Superman worry more about it's boxoffice numbers here at home, and not overseas.

Which places? In Europe WB gets 60% in the first weeks and 50 % then.

 

[matthooper]

Which places? In Europe WB gets 60% in the first weeks and 50 % then.

Your numbers are wrong professor.

http://www.factbook.net/wbglobal_rev.htm


From Whedonesque:
"The studio typically gets less than half of that, especially from overseas showings, so the film is still quite far from even making back its production budget, not to mention marketing costs."


It's Asia where the studio gets much more of the take. Once again you prove you know nothing.
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=1242

 

[JamalYIgle]

Good points.

SR will end up with a small profit - less than 50 million certainly while BB did over 200 million in profit and FF even more.

If they green-light a sequel they must have faith, but the failure of the DVD sales has to be a shock for WB and indicates a sequel will do just around 200 million and basically kill off the franchise for good.

Horn knows the numbers - take this to the bank - in the end a sequel will not get a green light. Best thing for WB, but even better thing for fans. And some who do not see so now will see so in hindsight.

what the hell are you talking about?
Batman Begins
B.O. $205,197,285 (Domestic) over all $371,824,647 budget $150,000,000
Rentals $58,930,000 over 14 weeks SR did that in 9 weeks ( $50,920,000)
ad budget $44,400,000
TV rights 25,000,000
so
371,824,647
-150,000,000
-44,000,000
+58,930,000
+25,000,000
total :$261,754,647 Profit.

Superman Returns

B.O. $200,120,000 (Domestic) 391,120,000 (international)
Budget(Which has been officially released) 204,000,000
Imax theaters (not part of the total domestic gross) 22,800,000
US Video game slaes:400,000
Rentals( $50,920,000)
Ad budget(never released) but apparently according to my source closer to BB's budget than this mystical 100 mil that people keep touting.TV rights(25,000,000)
Total profit before DVD sales and ancillary merchandising and licensing(Product tie ins include , Hasbro,General mills,Hot Topic, Target, Pepsi, Pizza hut,etc.)
$242,240,000 Profit.
So with a slighty higher budget the still managed to make 20 million less than Batman Begins

 

[lexlives]

Wow, once again, same baseless argument with no facts to back it up.

From Whedonesque:
"The studio typically gets less than half of that, especially from overseas showings, so the film is still quite far from even making back its production budget, not to mention marketing costs."

The general rule I've heard is that a film breaks even when it makes 2x its production/marketing budget.

For BB that would have been around 400 million, for SR around 600 million. For FF around 300 million.

 

[lexlives]

what the hell are you talking about?
Batman Begins
B.O. $205,197,285 (Domestic) over all $371,824,647 budget $150,000,000
Rentals $58,930,000 over 14 weeks SR did that in 9 weeks ( $50,920,000)
ad budget $44,400,000
TV rights 25,000,000
so
371,824,647
-150,000,000
-44,000,000
+58,930,000
+25,000,000
total :$261,754,647 Profit.

Superman Returns

B.O. $200,120,000 (Domestic) 391,120,000 (international)
Budget(Which has been officially released) 204,000,000
Imax theaters (not part of the total domestic gross) 22,800,000
US Video game slaes:400,000
Rentals( $50,920,000)
Ad budget(never released) but apparently according to my source closer to BB's budget than this mystical 100 mil that people keep touting.TV rights(25,000,000)
Total profit before DVD sales and ancillary merchandising and licensing(Product tie ins include , Hasbro,General mills,Hot Topic, Target, Pepsi, Pizza hut,etc.)
$242,240,000 Profit.
So with a slighty higher budget the still managed to make 20 million less than Batman Begins

BTW, SR did not do 59 million rentals in 9 weeks, its 51 it will soon be off the rental charts as its had weak legs despite a strong first week. BB was on 14 weeks and SR will probably drop after this week (10 weeks) off the chart. SR will not make BB's 58 million in rentals, but will end up around 53 million.

 

[JamalYIgle]

BTW, SR did not do 59 million rentals in 9 weeks, its 51 it will soon be off the rental charts as its had weak legs despite a strong first week. BB was on 14 weeks and SR will probably drop after this week (10 weeks) off the chart. SR will not make BB's 58 million in rentals, but will end up around 53 million.

I never said 59 million I said 50.
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/superman_returns/numbers.php
VHS RENTAL HISTORY
Week Rank Gross Cumulative
Week #1 1 $12,950,000 $12,950,000
Week #2 2 $10,710,000 $23,660,000
Week #3 4 $7,900,000 $31,560,000
Week #4 7 $5,970,000 $37,530,000
Week #5 13 $4,300,000 $41,840,000
Week #6 16 $3,260,000 $45,090,000
Week #7 21 $2,490,000 $47,580,000
Week #8 24 $1,880,000 $49,470,000
Week #9 26 $1,460,000 $50,920,000
The Total VHS Rentals figure at the top of the page is the cumulative figure before it drops off the top 10 rentals chart. A video, on average, will make about 60% more after dropping off the top 10 rentals chart.