Explosions and gunfire in Paris

[TeeKay]

I only just found out about this today. I feel like I'm ignorant. Thoughts and prayers go to the victims and their families

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Exactly...

Not really, you said "everybody" couldn't be more ambiguous

 

[Drz]

no one "created" ISIS, that part of the world has been ruled by warlords in one form or another for centuries..ISIS is just a current incarnation of that

Who do you think provided them with weapons and the ability to unleash this hell?

[YT]VbZDyr2LkdI[/YT]

 

[DeadPresident]

you seem to be operating under the assumption that this attack was a result of refugees...a lot of people want to make that connection


one of the gunmen has already been identified as a French citizen..how much you want to bet at least half of them were French citizens?

because I really think that's the case here

I'm not saying it was caused by it, this was probably planned before the refugee crisis. What I mean is the refugee crisis could have contributed, and these attacks are the price France are paying for having such open arms and lax immigration policies.

That said, a few native French are also obviously involved. But the rampant migration from the Middle East plays a distinct role as well as local exponents.

 

[chamber-music]

Australia has some very tough immigration policies and they still had a Islamic terrorist hostage situation in Sydney last year at that cafe.

I don't think immigration policy has a huge amount to do with these Islamic terrorist incidents. Most of the Islamic attacks over the last 14 years have been carried out by people born or raised in the country they attacked. Most grew up as normal citizens until becoming radicalised at some point.

Weird how Al-Qaeda has effectively been replaced by Isis. All those bombs we dropped and it was basically removed by a more extreme group. Changed one extremist inspiration for another.

Much of Al-Qaeda's leadership has been taken out but the biggest change is that they fell out of fashion. ISIS became a lot more enticing to the lunatic fanatics that buy into that kind of Islamic extremism ideology thanks to how they promote themselves. ISIS was releasing slick designed propaganda and bragging about themselves on social media while Al-Qaeda was still releasing grainy videos of themselves sitting on their ass giving lectures about the unbelievers.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Much of Al-Qaeda's leadership has been taken out but the biggest change is that they fell out of fashion. ISIS became a lot more enticing to the lunatic fanatics that buy into that kind of Islamic extremism ideology thanks to how they promote themselves. ISIS was releasing slick designed propaganda and bragging about themselves on social media while Al-Qaeda was still releasing grainy videos of themselves sitting on their ass giving lectures about the unbelievers.

its all in the marketing

I remember hearing about how they were pushing themselves and coordinating through Twitter

I guess their "rules" only apply selectively, as it relates to technology, women, education, history, etc

 

[DeadPresident]

Not really, you said "everybody" couldn't be more ambiguous

It wasn't ambiguous, it was exaggerated and ultimately I was wrong. That said, I believe about half of the people lost their lives? Not a very encouraging ratio.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

They might be willing to fight for their new EU homeland. No one mentions that, either.

Refugees? Since they aren't staying to fight for their homeland why would they be willing to fight for their adopted homeland?

 

[Drz]

A good book to read to understand why all of this is happening would be Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire, it's an amazing book that was even written before 9/11 happened.

 

[Mysteryman]

A good book to read to understand why all of this is happening would be Blowback: The Costs and Consequences of American Empire, it's an amazing book that was even written before 9/11 happened.

What is the book about?

 

[TheCommissioner]

Refugees? Since they aren't staying to fight for their homeland why would they be willing to fight for their adopted homeland?

ask the number of immigrated citizens who have fled similar situations and enlisted in their adopted countrys military - I know a couple I could introduce you to

 

[Victarion]

Refugees? Since they aren't staying to fight for their homeland why would they be willing to fight for their adopted homeland?

Their old ones were hellholes not worth fighting for. In the EU they can enjoy a more liberal lifestyle with more opportunities. Treat the refugees like human beings rather than lump them together as sympathizers with the attackers and they might be persuaded to take up arms should we join the Russians on the ground in Syria or inform on those suspected of treason.

 

[terry78]

I don't doubt we had some hand in creating the monster but at this point I doubt apologies or attempting to make it better would even fly. They're too far gone and have kinda lost any sympathy.

 

[The Apocalypse]

How does something like this happen nowadays? This is something that has to be planned out. I can understand one, maybe two attacks slipping through intel but 4 at the same time?

Anyway, my thoughts go out to everyone in Paris and everyone who had family there. Tragic event.

 

[Drz]

What is the book about?

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40709.Blowback

These reviews explain it better than I ever could.

 

[chamber-music]

One of the attackers is rumoured to be a Syrian refugee who passed through Greece last month. If this is true then Syrian refugees are in for even more of a hard time.

How does something like this happen nowadays? This is something that has to be planned out. I can understand one, maybe two attacks slipping through intel but 4 at the same time?

It seems like a terror cell.

One of the killers is said to of been a known French extremist which means the security services dropped ball at some point if a guy on the watch list managed to succeed in carrying out these attacks

 

[DeadPresident]

French intelligence dropped the ball in a massive way. I can understand something slipping through the cracks, but this number of perpetrators and distinct locations? The responsibility lies with them up to a certain point, at least one or two of these should have been preventable.

 

[chamber-music]

 

[terry78]

Xavier got in touch, he's not in the area.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Xavier got in touch, he's not in the area.

Good news, I was actually worried.

 

[Thundercrack85]

French intelligence dropped the ball in a massive way. I can understand something slipping through the cracks, but this number of perpetrators and distinct locations? The responsibility lies with them up to a certain point, at least one or two of these should have been preventable.

There's only so much intelligence can do. When you have millions of these radicals in the world, and a large free country, this will happen.

 

[Thundercrack85]

no one "created" ISIS, that part of the world has been ruled by warlords in one form or another for centuries..ISIS is just a current incarnation of that

That's not accurate. ISIS actually has fairly traceable roots. There's of course the al-Qaeda connection, but a big part of it was stupid Bush policies in Iraq. Namely deBaathification and the dismissal of Iraq's army.

 

[Teelie]

There is no guaranteed way to capture terrorists. Especially not those who are native to the country attacked. Intelligence can only do so much and not even the NSA or their equivalent's dragnet of eavesdropping on everyone will catch them.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Peaceful Muslims in the west would do well to arrange a mass peace protest denouncing ISIS and all terrorism.

Right now most information people are given about Islam is negative so It would improve the world image of their religion and make their allegiances and views known clearly.

ISIS is apparently defaming their religion to the world, surely if they want this view to change they need to work to change it

There's only so much intelligence can do. When you have millions of these radicals in the world, and a large free country, this will happen.

I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. Doesn't seem hard to kill with homemade explosives if you're willing to die in the attempt. Lots of crowded places. I guess western intelligence agencies foil many before they are instigated.

 

[Thundercrack85]

ISIS has generally focused on attacking enemies in their own turf (the near enemy). It's part of what set them apart from Al Qaeda. That seems to be changing though. If that is the case, these attacks will start to become more frequent.