Failed Comic Book Movie Franchises

[The Overlord]

With the release of the second Ghost Rider movie, which made less money then the first one and still wasn't a quality film, it seems like Ghost Rider is a failed comic book movie franchise, a franchise that hasn't produced a single quality film. Since Ghost Rider is a failed franchise, I think audiences would be less likely to give another Ghost Rider film much of a chance, the same drop off happened with the second Fantastic Four movie.

Franchises like Batman and X-Men have had bad films sure, but they have also have had some good films as well, so the general public would be more willing to give these franchises a chance after a bad movie is released. What should be done with these failed comic book movie franchises?

 

[cherokeesam]

They should be given a second chance with people who know what the hell they're doing. It wasn't the characters or the concepts that caused FF and GR to fail, it was quite simply the fact that the films were made by people who had no concept about the source material and **** all over it.

 

[Figs]

Personally, I think some characters just don't have a wide appeal with the general audience.

I know that the new Ghost Rider's BO take was less than the first because the first wasn't liked by many, judging by it's own BO, but I really don't think a lot of the general audience can take that character seriously to the point where there will most likely never be a successful film in the future.

 

[The Overlord]

They should be given a second chance with people who know what the hell they're doing. It wasn't the characters or the concepts that caused FF and GR to fail, it was quite simply the fact that the films were made by people who had no concept about the source material and **** all over it.

But GR and Punisher did get a second chance with a different creative teams and their movies were still terrible. First impressions are everything and the general audience is not as forgiving as comic book fans are.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Well, fame helps. Ghost Rider lacks the name recognition of say, Spider-man or Batman. Or even X-Men. It could have compensated for that by being a good movie... Actually X-Men might not be a good example, since the successful movies have made it fairly famous. Let's go with Thor.

It's not too surprising Ghost Rider failed again. No idea why they reused Nicolas Cage.

 

[The Overlord]

Well, fame helps. Ghost Rider lacks the name recognition of say, Spider-man or Batman. Or even X-Men. It could have compensated for that by being a good movie... Actually X-Men might not be a good example, since the successful movies have made it fairly famous. Let's go with Thor.

It's not too surprising Ghost Rider failed again. No idea why they reused Nicolas Cage.

Well no one outside comic book fans really knew about Blade or Iron Man, but those characters became successful after their movies were released and struck a cord with the general public.

Besides all new movie franchises are unknown before they are released, Stars Wars didn't exist before the movie came out and it struck a cord with audiences in 1977.

If the Ghost Rider movies had been good they could have done well with the general public, instead they come off as rather lazy and half hearted efforts. Quality is often the key hear with characters who are not well known, its what made the Iron Man films popular and made the Fantastic Four film franchise a failure, ultimately.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Personally, I think some characters just don't have a wide appeal with the general audience.

I know that the new Ghost Rider's BO take was less than the first because the first wasn't liked by many, judging by it's own BO, but I really don't think a lot of the general audience can take that character seriously to the point where there will most likely never be a successful film in the future.

neither did blade... but he succeeded. The problem is so many studios don't know when and when not to deviate from the comic... Ghostrider is a prime example of when not to. Stick with one of his good storylines, and bring it to film (Same with the fan 4)

Blade had alot of hit and miss, and was relatively unheard of.. so his deviation from the comic, was actually a blessing.

those with successful comics, have alot of rich history, those shouldn't deviate. If it works, don't fix it. But if something is relatively unpopular... sure.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Well, fame helps. Ghost Rider lacks the name recognition of say, Spider-man or Batman. Or even X-Men. It could have compensated for that by being a good movie... Actually X-Men might not be a good example, since the successful movies have made it fairly famous. Let's go with Thor.

It's not too surprising Ghost Rider failed again. No idea why they reused Nicolas Cage.

Ghost Rider didn't need name recognition, it had a simple concept, and striking image, guy sells his soul and becomes a flaming skull on a motorcycle, and starred a household name, Nicholas Cage, that is why the movie did very well on it's opening weekend, it actually made a fair bit of money in total iirc. If it had been a good movie, it would have been a genuine blockbuster.
edit: aye, it was not a disaster money wise, it made 228 mil off a 110 mil budget, for such a crap movie, that is not bad at all. They raked in that money on image and advertising alone imo.

 

[The Morningstar]

Problem with Ghost Rider is that he is more of a cult, niche character, that should be in a more pulpy R rated horror esque comic book movie that doesn't need to appeal to mass audiences.

You can compare it to Blade in that way.

Difference being, Blade doesn't require a **** ton of CGI to pull off. Ghost Rider does.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

A lot of these movies do not *need* to be 'R'/18 rated imo. You could do a great GR film and it need not be 'R' rated, it would it be great to see an 'R' rated GR, yes, but not necessarily.
I think it's the same with Wolverine, we got some great Logan onscreen without having to go to that rating, we had him ploughing through soldiers with gusto and it did not have to be 'R' rated. But would it be great to see him in an 'R' rated film? Of course, but you don't need it to realise the character onscreen in a satisfying way,
Same with Conan, folk went on about how it needed to be 'R' rated, but it didn't really, you could go a bit further than LOTR and still have a great Conan film.

 

[The Morningstar]

I think if you wanted to do an adaptation of one of, if not the best GR story, Road to Damnation, it'd have to be rated R.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

I think if you wanted to do an adaptation of one of, if not the best GR story, Road to Damnation, it'd have to be rated R.

Ok, I have not read many comics with GR, so will bow to your superior knowledge, haha. But aye, I can think of a few great Wolverine comics that would be 'R' rated, if you wanted to really see him go nuts.
like, in the deleted scenes from X2, it shows you the full uncut shot of him screaming while stabbing that soldier into the fridge, Singer said they had to edit it so that the film cut to ice-man watching from behind the counter, before cutting back to Logan finishing his scream, so they could keep the rating down.
So, it was not so much the stabbing and killing, but the intensity of emotion shown when doing so, that determined the film's rating.

 

[The Morningstar]

Well that's it, it's not necessarily the violence/gore on the surface, it's the context and meaning of it. The tone, as well.

Like the old Indiana Jones movies. Plenty of blood and guts. But they ain't rated R because of the tone and the context.

But a movie with GR or Wolverine? Where they are not necessarily good guys and the tones of their films should be much darker and in the case of GR specifically, macabre, even venturing into "body horror" territory, I think rated R is what is needed to do the characters justice.

 

[cherokeesam]

Problem with Ghost Rider is that he is more of a cult, niche character, that should be in a more pulpy R rated horror esque comic book movie that doesn't need to appeal to mass audiences.

You can compare it to Blade in that way.

Difference being, Blade doesn't require a **** ton of CGI to pull off. Ghost Rider does.

Yup. GR (and any of the "Marvel Knights") need to have an R rating to be taken "seriously." And put ANYONE besides Cage in that role, and the movie sells.

As for someone mentioning Punisher above: as I've said from Day One, the problem with Punisher is the actual CONCEPT. Punisher is an action movie hero whose main claim to fame is that he is, well, an action movie hero. That gives him a great fish-out-of-water hook in a superhero universe, where everyone dresses in tights and shoots lightning bolts out their asses; but when you put an action movie hero in a generic action *movie,* he becomes completely redundant. There's nothing at all (besides a nifty skull logo) to differentiate him from any of your Stathams or Seagals or Van Dammes.

 

[The Morningstar]

There is if they take a leaf out of Jason Aaron's PunisherMax series. He isn't just a guy out for revenge. It actually makes him quite complex and the portrayal, if handled seriously, could be a really good movie.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Well that's it, it's not necessarily the violence/gore on the surface, it's the context and meaning of it. The tone, as well.

Like the old Indiana Jones movies. Plenty of blood and guts. But they ain't rated R because of the tone and the context.

But a movie with GR or Wolverine? Where they are not necessarily good guys and the tones of their films should be much darker and in the case of GR specifically, macabre, even venturing into "body horror" territory, I think rated R is what is needed to do the characters justice.

It depends of the story, if they adapted some of my fav Wolverine stories to the screen, they would not need an 'R' rating, and they would more than do justice to the character.

look at the example I was talking about, they couldn't show Logan screaming *while* he was actually stabbing someone, but what they could do, was show him screaming off camera while he stabbed them, or as he ran towards the soldiers screaming. You don't need to do an 'R' rated Wolverine to do justice to the character, you just have to play around with what is allowed.
It has been a long time since i read it, as i lent my book out years ago, but they should be able to do a great adaptation of the CC/FM mini-series for the next movie, without it having to be 'R' rated.

 

[Micromind]

Some fans want Marvel to get rights to Ghost Rider back, so that it can have another chance, but after two unsuccessful movies, I think it is clear that GA are not interested to see this character again. Some of the "failed" Marvel characters that should Not get another chance as they had at least two chances at B.O. and GA is not interested are -

Ghost Rider, Punisher, Fantastic Four and Hulk.

Instead of making movies to these failed properties, it is better to give some new properties a chance, like -

Moon Knight, Dr. Strange, Ant man, Black Panther.

 

[chamber-music]

I think Ghost Rider and The Punisher could appeal to a wider audience with the right approach.

The problem is they have been adapted badly. The movies where cheap and generic as well as only scraping the surface of the characters.

I don't understand why more superhero movies don't just rip stories directly from the comics. There are great stories that only need a few changes of plot and dialogue that would be perfect for adaptation instead of getting a screenwriter to come up some completely original screenplay that usual sucks.

I guess they don't want to pay some comic writer royalties.

Ghost Rider should of took the Blade approach and made it a dark r rated horror action movie. They should of cast an actor who fit the role which sadly Nicolas Cage doesn't.

 

[The Morningstar]

Fantastic Four should definitely be given another go. They're semi famous and a superhero family is a great concept. Especially one that is famous and doesn't have secret identities. There is a lot that can be done there.

The Fox films failed not because of the F4 concept, but because they were just mediocre as films.

Although I agree that Marvel should try new characters also. And it seems that's what they are doing. I'd love to see Ant-Man, Dr Strange and Black Panther movies. Moon Knight I think would be better as a serialised TV show on HBO or something.

 

[Lord]

Fantastic Four definitelly deserve another chance
Both films were bad and comited similar errors, in the hands of the right person it can be great, well, this can be said for any of those 4 actually, but both hulk movies were ok, they tried the smart route with Ang Lee, and the smash route with TIH, but still the audience wasn't interested by either so that franchise should rest a little.

The first Punisher movie was much better than i expected, i heard many trashing it but it was a great tribute to old action films, War Zone has its followers but failed at the box-office, in my opinion, if the first wasn't accepted as the perfect Punisher film then forget making more.

Hulk and Punisher are going to try the TV route, in fact they may work there, but we'll see. The failed franchises should be given a rest for some more 8-15 years, Fantastic Four may not be given one as FOX already wants to reboot it or the rights will revert back to Marvel, i say Good Luck then.

 

[The Morningstar]

F4 is the only rights i really want to go back to Marvel. I couldn't care less about X-Men or Spider-Man. Just get the F4 back with Marvel. It could open up so many possibilities.

 

[Lord]

Yeah, the FF belong to the bigger Marvel universe, the X-Men can hold a world of it's oun, the company that had Spidey should also have Daredevil, that is a team-up i kinda like

 

[cherokeesam]

Some fans want Marvel to get rights to Ghost Rider back, so that it can have another chance, but after two unsuccessful movies, I think it is clear that GA are not interested to see this character again. Some of the "failed" Marvel characters that should Not get another chance as they had at least two chances at B.O. and GA is not interested are -

Ghost Rider, Punisher, Fantastic Four and Hulk.

Instead of making movies to these failed properties, it is better to give some new properties a chance, like -

Moon Knight, Dr. Strange, Ant man, Black Panther.

I don't think any franchise deserves to be abandoned just because somebody made sh***y movies about them. That does *not* mean the GA isn't interested in the characters or concepts; only that no filmmaker has done them justice yet. Back in the 80s and 90s, there were several half-ass attempts at making superhero movies that were absolutely awful (and very low budget) --- Punisher, Captain America, Supergirl, Steel, etc. But just because lousy movies were made about them doesn't mean they won't be successful in the right hands.

 

[Micromind]

No matter how good movie Marvel can make, not many will go amd watch it, can anyone from GA care to go and see another -Punisher / Ghost Rider / Hulk and so on ?

Better to make Moon Knight, Black Panther etc.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Ghost Rider should definately be given another chance, his movies have been poor but that is because the directors decided that they knew better than the comics and made tons of unnecessary changes that made the concept worse rather than better.

Take Blackout in GR2 as a prime example, like his comic-book counterpart in appearence and almost nothing else. Its pointless to make these changes. Plenty of GR stories are movies in and of themselves, so adapt them and get good directors to do so and we are getting somewere. Same with the other so called 'failed' properties.