Filling in the Plot Holes

Discussion in 'Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen' started by Hound89, Jun 30, 2009.

  1. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    Ok a Major Complaint i hear is that The plot didn't make sense, but it actually did if u pay attention

    A major Plot hole i hear is "Why didn't Sam use the all Spark shard on Optimus instead of Jetfire"

    Well...

    the Whole reason they went looking for jet fire cause he was the only person who could read the symbols, Their Revelation that they could bring prime back was after Jetfire Explained every thing

    Also Jetfire was'nt dead; the shard did'nt bring him back to life. It just woke him up. I could be wrong but I think Sam still had the Allspark piece anyway even after using it.

    Jetfire had just been hiding out on Earth from the war and had somehow settled into an airplane form.

    Sam also might not have known that Megatron was revived by a shard of the Allspark, since no-one told him the Deepticons stole it. He probably had no idea how he came back to life. And Megatron's injuries were not as serious as Optimus's, so the shard might not have worked anyway. Optimus had his chest ripped open- Megatron just seemed to suffer a heart attack or something.

    Anyway, main point is- Jetfire was'nt dead.

    Also, to revive Megatron the Decepticons killed one of their own and used his parts for repairs- the Allsparks was'nt enough. The Autobots are'nt likely to do that.
     
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  2. The Guard

    The Guard Well-Known Member

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    I think you're wasting your time with this thread. It's pretty obvious some people just want to pick ROTF apart at every level, and simply don't want to think about the things in the movie that do make sense in context, because they're disappointed overall.

    It's interesting, really. Because it's fine when characters in BATMAN BEGINS happen to run into each other or be related somehow, or loose plot threads manage to pull together, and it's fine in THE DARK KNIGHT when Harvey Dent happens to fall halfway into a puddle of gasoline that then happens to ignite to the point where he happens to be burnt halfway, or that a mob would keep all their money in one bank, or someone can fall out a window and survive a 40 MPH plunge onto a car unscathed, or a boat full of criminals doesn't blow up a boat full of innocents, or The Joker manages to put all those barrels and explosives on two National Guard supervised evacuation boats, but in a movie about giant transforming robots, apparently we need to question things like why the evil ones didn't just kill the humans outright, because that would be more realistic, or why the Allspark can both kill and heal...

    I think there's some fair criticism of the movie, to be sure, and this movie has a number of flaws, over the top elements and what have you, but by and large over the last few days, it sort of comes down to, people have a perception of the film as a whole and either because they don't want to, or aren't capable of rational thinking, they want to impose that perception on every single element of it. And to hell and be damned with assessing each element fairly.
     
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  3. Mr. Earle

    Mr. Earle Well-Known Member

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    I second that, but on the other hand this movie had plot holes you could steer an aircraft carrier through. However, these holes have been pointed out millions of times around here so this thread has no point and will only make matters worse. We already have a "WTF" thread where we can lay off some steam.

    Btw, just out of curiosity, i couldnt remember anything in Begins like the part in bold implies. What are you referring to?
     
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  4. Drizzle

    Drizzle I got my cake.

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    I'd like to fill Megan Fox's plot holes. :o
     
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  5. The Guard

    The Guard Well-Known Member

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    Eh, it's here, might as well make this the requisite "plot hole" thread.

    I think the movie has absurd elements and a few key errors more than it has too many actual glaring plotholes.

    The story is overdone for dramatic purposes, like most stories, although on a truly epic level, which both helps and hurts its quality.

    What real plotholes does it have, that cannot be rationally explained, or are not already explained in the film?

    The "chance meeting" of Rachel, Batman, Zsasz and his crew, and the kid Batman happened to run into earlier. Sure was convenient. :)
     
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  6. Mr. Earle

    Mr. Earle Well-Known Member

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    Oh lol that was dumb!
    Why anyone can kill a prime (optimus), but only a prime can kill the fallen (who is a prime too). Etc, etc, etc...
     
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  7. Kane52630

    Kane52630 Just Some Nut

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    here is every plot hole from yahoo movies

    http://movies.yahoo.com/feature/smg-transformers-10-questions.html

    1. In "Transformers," there was this giant battle in the middle of downtown Los Angeles -- excuse me, Mission City -- that was witnessed by thousands of people at the very least. But somehow the government was able to cover up the whole thing, and now the existence of alien robots is just an internet rumor? How did they do it? Pay off everyone who was there and quickly fix millions of dollars in damage? Also, didn't Keller (Jon Voight) go on TV and tell everyone we were being attacked by "a technological civilization far superior to our own"? How did they spin that?

    Shia LaBeouf 2. There are two pieces of the Allspark cube left: the military has one under lock and key, and Sam discovers another. The Decepticons steal one and bring Megatron back to life. But when Sam (Shia LaBeouf) wants to bring back Optimus, he has to find the Matrix of Leadership on the other side of the globe. Why not use the other piece? Mikaela (Megan Fox) has it in her backpack the whole time. It brought his kitchen appliances to life, why can't it do the same for Optimus?

    3. Speaking of Megatron's rebirth, when the Decepticons venture deep into the ocean to revive him, the Navy crew tracking them reads five contacts. When they get down there, they tear apart one of the robots for parts to rebuild Megatron. Then as they rise to the surface, the same Navy guys say they spot six contacts. The little "Doctor" robot popped out down there, but he's about a third of the size of a person. Would he have shown up on sonar?

    Shia LaBeouf 4. That reminds me: even if I were to forgive the Doctor's German accent -- and director Michael Bay is asking me to forgive a lot of ridiculous accents -- why would a robot need glasses? He has little lenses that flip in front of his mechanical eyes. Couldn't he just get his eyes adjusted? You'd think with all the laser guns, someone could perform a Lasik procedure.

    5. Apparently, Transformers can look like people now. How? And how is it that even though the robo-girl (Isabel Lucas) is made of metal, she can still straddle Sam without crushing him. And if Bumblebee knows something's wrong with her, why does he spit antifreeze at her instead of telling Sam? Yes, his voicebox is broken, but wasn't it fixed at the end of the last movie?

    Megan Fox 6. The Fallen is the last of the Primes, since they all sacrificed themselves to stop him from destroying the sun. But then he says that Optimus is a descendant of the Primes. First, Transformers have kids? And second, how could he descend from them if they were all dead? And if the Fallen could only be destroyed by a Prime, why didn't the originals just gang up on him back in the day? And what makes Optimus so special, anyway? Megatron beat him earlier, but all it takes is a few spare parts from creaky old Jetfire for him to take out the Fallen?

    7. Sam, Mikaela, and Simmons (John Turturro) go to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum in Washington D.C. to find Jetfire. Then they walk out the back onto a wide open field with old planes and mountains in the distance. When did the National Mall start to look so much like to Tucson, AZ (where they really filmed that scene)?

    Megan Fox 8. The geography is just as bad when they go to Egypt. The stone city of Petra in Jordan is over 250 miles away, over mountainous terrain, with few paved roads and the Israeli border between them, so how can they drive from one to the other in a couple of hours. And the Pyramids are said to be shooting distance from the Mediterranean, but they are actually well over 80 miles inland. Even if the Navy ship had a secret rail gun, and even if the captain would take an order to fire from a former agent of a government branch that no longer exists (over a walkie-talkie that inexplicably starts working again), how could it hit a moving target from that distance?

    9. Sam briefly dies and goes to Robot Heaven. Robot Heaven?!?!

    Megan Fox 10. Where does Sam's bandage come from? What about his extra sock? Why does Sam's roommate not contribute anything at all? What was the Fallen doing for those thousands of years Megatron was frozen in ice? How does one satellite receive transmissions from everywhere on the planet? Why does Wheelie hump Mikaela's leg? Why do we have to see John Turturro's thong? Why are robots who join together to become Devastator also seen fighting the Army at the same time? Why does the government want only our military fighting Decepticons when our weapons seem unable to make so much as a dent on any of them? Why did the ancient Egyptians build a pyramid around the sun-destroying machines instead of just breaking it? Why is the Matrix of Leadership bigger in the Fallen's hand than in Sam's? And how do Mikaela's pants stay so clean?
     
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  8. Hound89

    Hound89 Well-Known Member

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    1. Cant Answer gonna have to see both movies again

    2. Already answered this one in my OP

    3. this one isnt So much a Plot hole, as a Mistake pure and simple [unless they are counting the Doctor/ or they brought the remains of the Dead Bot with them]

    4.the "glasses" were built into the robot ,so that was the Doctors method of Adjusting its eyes [Over analyzing much?]

    5. How: Robot in DISGUISE , Why isn't she Crushing him :Shes made of light weight metal IF Bubleebee knew their was soem htign wrong why didnt he warn sam: Bee didnt he was jsut tryign to keep sam from cheetign on Mikela Isnt his voicebox broken: Yes it is its still bothering him, and He was playing it up, Gawd danmit Its not that hard to Pay attention

    6. TIS DESTINY!

    7. No Excuse for this one

    8.its Superscience ,

    9.Well of The All Spark , LOOK IT UP!

    10. these are all nit picks
     
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  9. The Guard

    The Guard Well-Known Member

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    It is shown that the government ATTEMPTED to cover it up. The filmmakers showing us Leo's website and Turturro's website and their popularity makes it obvious that this did not work entirely. The Transformers are a well known urban legend. Let's face it, it's really farfetched (which is the point), but given the size of the event, it's within the realm of possibility that the government attempted to cover up exactly what happened. I doubt too many people were taking cell phone footage while running for their lives, you know?

    Don't the Decepticons also murder one of their own and take its spark AND the shard to revive Megatron? Wouldn't Optimus need a spark (As Jetfire shows us, when the Matrix isn't enough to power Prime back up).

    Where is it said that Shia knows how the Decepticons brought Megatron back to life? And even if he knew, and did think it was possible...the shard brought the kitchen appliances to life as murderous, brainless killing machines.

    Hmm...

    I don't know, maybe in a world with technology reverse engineered from alien robots.

    Stay with me here, because this is crazy, and hard to follow:

    The Navy guys thought they saw six, but they were mistaken, there were only five. Realism. :)

    They seemed to be scanners of some sort.

    She's a human sized Decepticon. She's able to approximate skin, eyes, and sweat, but you're worried that she might be too heavy? Suspend your disbelief.

    Bumblebee said all of what, eleven words in TRANSFORMERS? As an actor/singer, I've had sore throats where I lost my voice, then my voice came back, and then went away again. He struggles a bit to speak in the beginning of ROTF, and Sam says he's playing it up as well, and he clearly is. Why do people keep asking this question when the movie provides two pretty obvious explanations as to why Bumblebee isn't speaking?

    He likes speaking through the radio. Or he has trouble doing otherwise.

    Pick one.

    All Bumblee knows is that Sam shouldn't cheat on Mikaela. I'd say he's trying pretty damn clearly in that scene to tell Sam something's "wrong", what with the bits of the car moving around and shaking and things spraying on people, but there's nothing to suggest that Bumblee knows she's a Decepticon.

    Why does descendant have to mean "kids" in the context of alien machines?

    The same way soldiers go to war, die, and manage to have children that survive them. They already had offspring before they died.

    I mean...are you serious with that question?

    I think it's implied that they did. Which is why he was in hiding, which is why he apparently formed the Decepticons. To do his dirty work.

    Megatron beat Prime by being dishonorable and ganging up on him with three other Transformers. Obviously Jetfire's parts were pretty good parts. I think there's also a clear element of "Prime's done messing around" there. He's back, he has business to take care of, and he does so.

    It's a movie. Obviously someone thought it would be neat to have a jet graveyard outside an Air and Space museum. It helps with Jetfire's angle.

    Who gives a damn if that's not there in the real world? It's not a documentary, it's Transformers.

    What's next, people *****ing about how Chicago's Lower Wacker doesn't actually run as long as it appears to in BATMAN BEGINS?

    Who says it was a couple of hours? Where is that line of dialogue, did I miss it?

    Sigh...

    1. It's clearly some sort of high tech superweapon.
    2. It's a desperate situation, suspend your disbelief
    3. It's a massive target, and one assumes they have some of ability to target via satellite or something

    Per Wikipedia:

    The U.S. Navy has tested a railgun that accelerates a 7 pound projectile to seven times the speed of sound.]

    Now, obviously the weapon in the movie is a little more advanced and powerful. Suspend your disbelief.

    I think you're supposed to make up your own mind about what happens there. Could be Robot Heaven, could be a vision of Robot Heaven.

    He does, remember? He takes out a security guard before he shocks himself in the balls.

    Being the robot devil to the Decepticons? Building legions of evil robots?

    It was commandeered by Soundwave and his liquid circuit thingies.

    Because he thinks she's hot and he's like a fifth or sixth her size. He can't exactly mount her normally.

    You don't have to. The moment is pretty much broadcast before it happens, and if you choose to look at length, or at all, it says more about you than it does about the movie giving you the opportunity to see it.

    Because what other forms are the landing Decepticon soldiers who want to turn into things other than jagged metal things supposed to take on? Camels? Buildings? The only other vehicles in the area for them to scan are the other Decepticons. Or maybe the Constructicons are like the grunts of the Decepticon army. Clones in a sense.

    What?

    The government wanted the autobots off the planet because they thought they were drawing the Decepticons there.

    I don't think the ancient Egyptians build that pyramid in this universe. If they did, they probably did it to honor the alien visitors or something.

    Same reason it can become dust. It transforms?

    What in blue hell are you talking about?

    http://www.collider.com/uploads/ima...allen_movie_image_shia_labeouf__megan_fox.jpg

    Anyway...

    This reminds me of the SIMPSONS where Bart is trying to find a geode to take to school and he holds up a bran muffin.

    These aren't plot holes. Plot holes are things that affect the PLOT working, not editing or script errors, or things that people just don't like or can't be bothered to pay attention to elements of the movie and reason out.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2009
  10. LightningFlash

    LightningFlash Well-Known Member

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    Anyone get tired of hearing people nit-pick over Bay's Transformer films, but yet no one in their right mind would dare to nit-pick over Spider-Man 2 or any of Nolan's Batman films, huh? And of silly things too, which can easily be answers.

    Or, deep in their hearts, they really enjoyed the two movies, but just can't seem to say so, because the "cool thing" to do is bash Michael Bay.

    And...are people dumb enough to not know that there is actually a REAL rail gun?
     
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    Last edited: Jun 30, 2009
  11. Antrax255

    Antrax255 The Anti-One

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  12. LightningFlash

    LightningFlash Well-Known Member

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    So he couldn't even ask his own ****, haha.
     
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  13. webs

    webs Well-Known Member

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    :applaud @ The Guard
     
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  14. Visceral

    Visceral A Shadow

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    no.

    all i hear is people nit picking those films saying how they aren't as perfect as everyone thinks they are.

    I wish those films would be left in peace.

    I did enjoy tf2 tho, but I think its okay to pick it apart as long as people are lighthearted about it. Its a movie based on a toy after all.
     
    #14
  15. rnewbz

    rnewbz More human than human

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    Yep this pretty much covers everything that made this movie so ******.
     
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  16. Kane52630

    Kane52630 Just Some Nut

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    i dont have to, it would waste my time (plus a little reading at the begining of my post and you can see i didnt write that)

    btw i saw this in IMAX and my expectations matched to the actual film, just explosions with a weak story :whatever:
     
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  17. 8wid

    8wid Well-Known Member

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    What happened to the Fallen's broadcasts all over the world, is the entire planet Earth now aware of Transformers? Or was it considered a hoax?
     
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  18. Iron_Stark

    Iron_Stark That's a one-off

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    About Shia and his "extra sock" he didn't have an extra sock, if you look closely you can quickly see him reaching down to his foot for the sock.
     
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  19. Nathan

    Nathan ...

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    Yeah, that wasn't hard to miss. Wonder why many assume he pulled out a magical 3rd sock.
     
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  20. The Lizard

    The Lizard Didn't eat Billy

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    #20
  21. The Guard

    The Guard Well-Known Member

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    Because some people are apparently idiots. I mean, one of those points was "How did the Primes have descendants after they died?" for goodness sake.

    REALLY?
     
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  22. Steyin

    Steyin Bidding you ADIEU!

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    I salute you Guard and raise a finger to those who continue to bring up idiotic/trite nitpicks about this film.
     
    #22
  23. Humphrey Bogart

    Humphrey Bogart Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone notice a trend? This sort of thing only really happens to movies that aren't very good. Movies in the 6/6.5 and below range. Iron Man, Spider-Man 2, The Dark Knight ect don't fall into that category. Wolverine does and it got the same treatment.
     
    #23
  24. Superfreak

    Superfreak Gramaton Cleric

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    there is a subtitle that says the NEST team is 6 hours away recently after Simmons makes the phone call from Egypt. So that whole quest through the desert bit took place in a 6 hour time frame.

    I can forgive them for the geography messing with the Museum scene.

    But I think it's kind of pathetic for them to put the 'Great Pyramids' in Jordan (they cross the egyptian border, leaving Egypt before they get to the pyramids) coupled with the fact that they don't know where they are, are they in Jordan, or are they in Egypt(they're in Egypt, being rescued by Jordanian helos)? And at the same time, say that Petra is only 100miles away (maybe as the bird flies, without having to drive all the way around the southern tip of Isreal). It's kind of like saying NYC is actually in Mexico (and then forgeting whether you are in NYC or Mexico). It's just stupid.

    Geography should be something that is not messed with in films IMO, you end up with little kids thinking one thing, not knowing that the filmmakers are a little uneducated.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2009
  25. The Guard

    The Guard Well-Known Member

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    I'm iffy on exactly what you're concerned about. So NEST is six hours away wherever they're located before wheels up? And the issue is that they travel too far too fast, what? Where are Sam and the others before they begin their Trek?

    I think that's just a checkpoint, not neccessarily the actual border, though I guess it could be. Do they ever say it's the border?

    And how is this relevant to how long it takes for them to get anywhere? What does Petra have to do with anything? I don't even remember Petra being mentioned in the movie.

    I don't know any little kids who go into movies to learn where things are in relation to each other. But that might be just me.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2009

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