Firefighters Forced To Attend Gay Pride Parade

[hammy]

Well i am a live and let live person but my main point is the issue should be about freedom of choice here IMO.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Memphis Slim]

Have all 4 guys actually said they are anti gay or did they just get all flustered b/c some dudes made a few sexual jokes towards them ?

This should be about the right to choose not the right to disapprove of people's sexuality.

These guys were offended by the actions of those lude homosexuals! Period....end of story. If they object to the homosexual lifestyle, isn't that their right?? Does that mean they hate them? No. But maybe NOW they do! After being subjected to something by mandate, that would turn anyone sour. And after being verbally assaulted too?? Are you kidding me?? "F--you firemen???" And you can call them jokes.....but it's the ones on the receiving end whose feelings matter in this.

Surely you are not trying to spin this one.

 

[Memphis Slim]

OK Celldog, I hate to break it to you but there's no secret headquarters for homosexuals where they sit around thinking about how to make straight people's lives miserable. 99.9 percent of gays just want you to leave them the hell alone.

As I figured .....you got nothing.

 

[Hunter Rider]

[/b]



These guys were offended by the actions of those lude homosexuals! Period....end of story. If they object to the homosexual lifestyle, isn't that their right?? Does that mean they hate them? No. But maybe NOW they do! After being subjected to something by mandate, that would turn anyone sour. And after being verbally assaulted too?? Are you kidding me?? "F--you firemen???" And you can call them jokes.....but it's the ones on the receiving end whose feelings matter in this.

Surely you are not trying to spin this one.

You seem to want this to be all about gays, it isn't, it's about freedom to choose and lets be honest, how many guys get all insecure if a gay dude cracks onto them and blow it all out of proportion ?

This issue is about the right to choose whether they should attend ANY function, the fact they got some gay heckling is hardly as important of a point for anyone not already hung up on Gay's to begin with.

 

[squeekness]

[/b]



These guys were offended by the actions of those lude homosexuals! Period....end of story. If they object to the homosexual lifestyle, isn't that their right?? Does that mean they hate them? No. But maybe NOW they do! After being subjected to something by mandate, that would turn anyone sour. And after being verbally assaulted too?? Are you kidding me?? "F--you firemen???" And you can call them jokes.....but it's the ones on the receiving end whose feelings matter in this.

Surely you are not trying to spin this one.

So is the problem freedom of choice for the firefighters, or whether or not it is okay for them to be heckled? It seems to me that the problem is sexual harrassment and not neccessarily one of being forced to participate. Why was there no crowd control?

 

[hammy]

You seem to want this to be all about gays, it isn't, it's about freedom to choose and lets be honest, how many guys get all insecure if a gay dude cracks onto them and blow it all out of proportion ?

This issue is about the right to choose whether they should attend ANY function, the fact they got some gay heckling is hardly as important of a point for anyone not already hung up on Gay's to begin with.

I disagree with your last statement. That's like telling women who are being taunted and harassed by men to just, 'get over it.'

 

[Memphis Slim]

You think straight men treat women any better when they're drunk?

1. Who said they gays were drunk? That's not in the text. And if they were, that's no excuse.

2. If your silly scenario is played out, is that some twisted justification for what happened to these men?


Why is it so hard for you to say that their rights were violated and that they we treated badly by those homosexuals and their boss??

 

[Kritish]

1. Who said they gays were drunk? That not in the text. And they were, that's no excuse.

2. If your silly scenario is played out, is that some twisted justification for what happened to these men?


Why is it so hard for you to say that their rights were violated and that they we treated badly by those homosexuals and their boss??

Here where I live (Earth) hetrosexual men don't need to be drunk to make comments on the same level as those. Don't hold straight people to a different standard.

But what's most cute is how you've turned this thread into your own little gay bash-a-thon.

 

[Memphis Slim]

You seem to want this to be all about gays, it isn't, it's about freedom to choose and lets be honest, how many guys get all insecure if a gay dude cracks onto them and blow it all out of proportion ?

This issue is about the right to choose whether they should attend ANY function, the fact they got some gay heckling is hardly as important of a point for anyone not already hung up on Gay's to begin with.

1. It is about the gays. Like it or not. They are the offenders in this issue. They made this about them. You can't see that or you don't want to?

2. And yes....It's also about the freedom to choose. The freedom for the firefighter to choose not to be subject to behavior they didn't want to be around. The freedom to be insecure if they want (though it's not insecurity). Deal with it. People are different. And some times they conflict with your beliefs.

Again how would you feel if these gay people were forced to attend a church rally where they were preaching the Biblical view of heterosexual relationships???

Would you be spinning this this way? Heck no....

I, on the other hand, believe that no gay person should be forced to do such a thing or be forced to listen to things they don't want to hear.

Why can't you give this same slack to the firemen without second guessing their motives?

 

[Hunter Rider]

I disagree with your last statement. That's like telling women who are being taunted and harassed by men to just, 'get over it.'

I think it depends a lot on the context and indeed level of the supposed taunting.

Why is it so hard for you to say that their rights were violated and that they we treated badly by those homosexuals and their boss??

This is where you lose focus, they were treat badly by their boss and these men, the sexuality of the boss and the men is irrelevent, abuse of power and verbal abuse is something *******s do, their sexual preference has no bearing on their actions.

 

[Kritish]

Wow, gays hit on some firefighters, I'm surprised that they didn't turn into stone or worse yet, catch the gay!

Get over yourself celldog, and stop looking for reasons to be bigot.

 

[Hunter Rider]

1. It is about the gays. Like it or not. They are the offenders in this issue. They made this about them. You can't see that or you don't want to?

2. And yes....It's also about the freedom to choose. The freedom for the firefighter to choose not to be subject to behavior they didn't want to be around. The freedom to be insecure if they want (though it's not insecurity). Deal with it. People are different. And some times they conflict with your beliefs.

Again how would you feel if these gay people were forced to attend a church rally where they were preaching the Biblical view of heterosexual relationships???

Would you be spinning this this way? Heck no....

I, on the other hand, believe that no gay person should be forced to do such a thing or be forced to listen to things they don't want to hear.

Why can't you give this same slack to the firemen without second guessing their motives?

Again you make it all about the gays, if they had been forced to go to an old peoples home to watch grannies put on a play of Othello we'd be talking about the issue of freedom of choice and that alone, it's b/c it's gay ppl that the issue for YOU is that gayness was forced into a hetro dudes life.

 

[Memphis Slim]

Here where I live (Earth) hetrosexual men don't need to be drunk to make comments on the same level as those. Don't hold straight people to a different standard.

Again....you didn't answer my question. This has nothing to do with alcohol or heterosexual men.

But what's most cute is how you've turned this thread into your own little gay bash-a-thon.

Oh puleeez....don't try to defelect........

Why can't you say that these men's rights were violated? What is wrong with you?

 

[hammy]

I think it depends a lot on the context and indeed level of the supposed taunting.

If it was equivalent to what was described for the firefighters, there would be a lot more outrage (and justifiably). I don't understand why some people aren't willing to afford the men the same considerations they would the women.

This is where you lose focus, they were treat badly by their boss and these men, the sexuality of the boss and the men is irrelevent, abuse of power and verbal abuse is something *******s do, their sexual preference has no bearing on their actions.

I don't see why it should be irrelevant.

 

[Kritish]

Oh puleeez....don't try to defelect........

Why can't you say that these men's rights were violated? What is wrong with you?

Listen dumb ass, I never once said that I supported the fire chief making them go to a gay pride parade. But you're once again using stories like this to justify that the fact that you're a bigot, worse yet you're spinning this in an attempt to make everyone hate gays as much as you do.

 

[Hunter Rider]

If it was equivalent to what was described for the firefighters, there would be a lot more outrage (and justifiably). I don't understand why some people aren't willing to afford the men the same considerations they would the women.

The thing is the firefighters are the ones telling their side right now but we aren't hearing much from the other side.

I don't see why it should be irrelevant.

B/c it is irrelevant, *******s heckled them, it doesn't matter if they are male, female, gay, straight, black or white, it's the verbal abuse that matters, for instance if a bunch of guys did that to a girl would we hear "Those damn heteros were taunting her" or would we simply hear " A bunch of male yobs taunted her" ?

 

[Kritish]

The thing is the firefighters are the ones telling their side right now but we aren't hearing much from the other side.

B/c it is irrelevant, *******s heckled them, it doesn't matter if they are male, female, gay, straight, black or white, it's the verbal abuse that matters, for instance if a bunch of guys did that to a girl would we hear "Those damn heteros were taunting her" or would we simply hear " A bunch of male yobs taunted her" ?

But it's not hereros that celldog hates.

 

[Memphis Slim]

I think it depends a lot on the context and indeed level of the supposed taunting.

No it doesn't. That is too subjective and you know it. They should not have been there. And no taunting was acceptable. And now it's supposed taunting??? Wow....

This is where you lose focus, they were treat badly by their boss and these men, the sexuality of the boss and the men is irrelevent, abuse of power and verbal abuse is something *******s do, their sexual preference has no bearing on their actions.

No I'm right on target, bud. If the boss was a Christian that was forcing this gay person to a pro-hetero sexual marriage rally you'd have a fit. That would be abuse of power...just like this is. And it could be argued that either boss was biased because of their beliefs. The lesbian cheif even said the parade was "great fun" for everyone! How is that, when your guys already protested they didn't want to go??? She was trying to make them like it whether they wanted to or not.

 

[Spider-Bite]

I'd be happy to march, but nobody should be forced. It goes against everything America stands for, and it defeats the purpose. A protest doesn't mean much when the protestors are being forced to protest against their will.

 

[Memphis Slim]

Listen dumb ass, I never once said that I supported the fire chief making them go to a gay pride parade. But you're once again using stories like this to justify that the fact that you're a bigot, worse yet you're spinning this in an attempt to make everyone hate gays as much as you do.

All of your lame-brained comments point to that!

Are you on the side of the firefighters or not??

 

[Hunter Rider]

No I'm right on target, bud. If the boss was a Christian that was forcing this gay person to a pro-hetero sexual marriage rally you'd have a fit. That would be abuse of power...just like this is. And it could be argued they either boss was biased because of their beliefs. The lesbian cheif even said the parade was "great fun" for everyone! How is that, when your guys already protested they didn't want to go??? She was trying to make them like it whether they wanted to or not.

No you are simply obsessed with hating gays, if a black fire chief had said "Hey you all have to go to the MLK day parade" and the guys turned round and said "No i don't want to go b/c i don't like blacks" you'd scream that the men were bigots and wouldn't mention the abuse of power of the chief.

Also why are the insults so certain to you ? is it b/c the gays did it ? this is all about gays for you and has little to do wit the general concept of freedom.

 

[squeekness]

No I'm right on target, bud. If the boss was a Christian that was forcing this gay person to a pro-hetero sexual marriage rally you'd have a fit. That would be abuse of power...just like this is. And it could be argued they either boss was biased because of their beliefs. The lesbian cheif even said the parade was "great fun" for everyone! How is that, when your guys already protested they didn't want to go??? She was trying to make them like it whether they wanted to or not.

I almost always disagree with you, but I can't here. If this was not a city function, they should not have been forced to go. Forcing them to go to something this controversial is abuse of power.

 

[hammy]

The thing is the firefighters are the ones telling their side right now but we aren't hearing much from the other side.

Of course, that's why I said IF, but IF it WAS equivalent, do you agree or do you hold a different standard for men?

B/c it is irrelevant, *******s heckled them, it doesn't matter if they are male, female, gay, straight, black or white, it's the verbal abuse that matters, for instance if a bunch of guys did that to a girl would we hear "Those damn heteros were taunting her" or would we simply hear " A bunch of male yobs taunted her" ?

I still don't agree that it's irrelevant. There are two issues at stake here, the first being whether or not they had the right to choose or refuse to attend, and secondly, whether or not they had the right to be turned off by the gay lifestyle, displays, whatever they were doing.

As for the comparison with women, THAT is where it's irrelevant. Of course there wouldn't be a distinction about whether the guys were called hetero or simply male. But homosexual guys being lewd to straight guys is the equivalent of heterosexual men being lewd to straight women. If anything, some might consider it worse.

 

[Memphis Slim]

I'd be happy to march, but nobody should be forced. It goes against everything America stands for, and it defeats the purpose. A protest doesn't mean much when the protestors are being forced to protest against their will.

And if the gay-rights movement is trying to make in-roads to acceptance, it's stuff like this that keeps a lot of people turned off. Even some homosexuals try to distance themselves from those lude parades. It hurts their cause in a big way.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Of course, that's why I said IF, but IF it WAS equivalent, do you agree or do you hold a different standard for men?

I guess i can only speak for myself here, personally if i saw it happen to a woman i'd be appalled and say something, if a gay dude did it to me i'd probably flip him the bird and laugh, maybe that's a "Male ego" thing but it feels like something i'd deal with myself.

I still don't agree that it's irrelevant. There are two issues at stake here, the first being whether or not they had the right to choose or refuse to attend, and secondly, whether or not they had the right to be turned off by the gay lifestyle, displays, whatever they were doing.

As for the comparison with women, THAT is where it's irrelevant. Of course there wouldn't be a distinction about whether the guys were called hetero or simply male. But homosexual guys being lewd to straight guys is the equivalent of heterosexual men being lewd to straight women. If anything, some might consider it worse.

The issue first and foremost is about freedom and then we come to the subject of bigotry, at what point does freedom to disapprove become bigotry ?

We also have this bad habit of constantly pointing out the colour or sexuality of an offender if that colour is not white or if that sexuality is not straight as if somehow their sexuality increases the nature of the crime, being a jerk and offensive really is about an attitude not about a race or sexual preference and the offenders should be talked about on the level of verbal abuse not what the verbal abuse was.