Firefighters Forced To Attend Gay Pride Parade

[CristoTheSecond]

For thinking that a fire chief should not have forced firemen to implicitly support a pride parade? And btw, I'd have the same reservations about an MLK parade, regardless of the fact that it is less controversial in present society. Now, as for Celldog calling the gays at the parade antagonizers for razzing a bunch of people that shouldn't have been there in the first place, he's full of ****. But that fire chief was out of bounds.

Stop it.

Just stop it. The mods should do something about the black/gay MLK/Chaquita comparisons. That's how damn insulting it is.

 

[Kritish]

Stop it.

Just stop it. The mods should do something about the black/gay MLK/Chaquita comparisons. That's how damn insulting it is.

Lame

 

[Darthphere]

If you like pina coladas.

 

[PhotoJones]

For thinking that a fire chief should not have forced firemen to implicitly support a pride parade? And btw, I'd have the same reservations about an MLK parade, regardless of the fact that it is less controversial in present society. Now, as for Celldog calling the gays at the parade antagonizers for razzing a bunch of people that shouldn't have been there in the first place, he's full of ****. But that fire chief was out of bounds.

See. That's why you're confused. You're really agreeing with the rest of society, not Celldog. It's common consensus that the fire chief stepped out of bounds and made a mistake she's going to pay for.

So unless you agree with bigotry, you're not agreeing with Celldog.

 

[Sandman138]

@Cristo: It's an analogy, and like all analogies, it is imperfect, if it was perfect, they wouldn't be analogous, they'd be the exact same. Like it or not, their are similarities, and the gay rights movement was modeled after the civil rights movement. Am I saying that gay people have the exact same concerns as black people? No. Indeed, a black gay woman has different concerns than a white gay man, but both minorities faced similar challenges at different times in this past century.

 

[Darthphere]

I agree with bigotry, because it rhymes.

 

[jaguarr]

In a nutshell........you remove all responsibility from the homosexuals for their behavior simply because you don't like the fact that these firemen didn't want to be there and didn't like the things that were happening?

No. I'm saying the responsibility is on the Fire Chief. Did some of the gay people at the parade behave badly? Certainly. But not all groups react well to outsiders. Try being a white boy in East L.A. at 11pm and see what happens, for example. But to use this situation as a way to target an entire group as rude, obnoxious, unclean, immoral and lewd just because you disagree with their lifestyle, as you seem to be attempting to do in this thread, is wrong.

Sounds to me like you're demonizing the real victims in this case. ...sounds like a "they got what they deserved" moment, to me.

No, I'm saying that they need to lighten up a little bit. Did they get physically attacked? No. Did anyone hold them down and sodomize them? No. They had lewd gestures made at them by some of the people at the parade, who were probably only doing it just to get a reaction out of them; the exact reaction that they got. Any woman who's ever walked past a construction site can attest that, while these kinds of jerks are annoying, if you ignore them it will all be just fine. I find it difficult to believe that four grown macho men who run into burning buildings and have watched people burn to death could be traumatized by something so insignificant. What was it Eleanor Roosevelt said? "They can't take away our dignity if we don't give it to them?". These firemen gave up their dignity like a drunk schoolgirl on extasy on prom night as far as I'm concerned, and it speaks just as loudly about their character as it does about the people who made offensive gestures towards them.

I already agree with you on the abuse of power issue. But it doesn't just "stop" in the front office. Every person in that parade had a resposibility to be decent and respectable. "F--you firemen!" , doesn't fit into that category, free speech or not.

Does uttering the phrase "F**k you, firemen!" lack class? Absolutely. But it's still exercising their freedom of speech. Part of having and enjoying free speech is realizing that we don't live in Happy Fluffy Bunny Land where everyone holds hands and eats candy canes and gum drops while singing "Kumbayah" and that there are people who will say things that we don't agree with or that we find distasteful. It's a small price to pay, as far as I'm concerned. I hear a-holes say stupid things all the time, some of them famous. I can laugh at them and move on. It's why God gave me critical thinking skills, a sense of humor and a thick skin.

And for the record, we don't have total freedom of speech! There are lines that can be crossed where parties or persons can feel threatened. These firemen were more than out numbered and the crowd was obviously hostile. And you don't see anything wrong with that??

What happened at the parade does not cross free speech lines, though. You'd obviously like for it to, but it does not. What it does do is cross employment boundaries. It was an environment those four men had no business being in because of their beliefs and own attitudes towards gay people (which I'm sure was more than apparent to the crowd). You're trying to make this all about free speech and it's still not the crux of the problem. A white person at a Black Panther rally would have gotten just as hostile reception, if not worse (that analogy was just for you, Cristo, since you seem to be somehow making this all about black people vs. the gays for some reason ). The problem still comes down to an employer abusing her power. Period. It's not a free speech issue. It's not a gay issue. It's an abuse of power in the workplace issue and that's the only kind of issue that will stand up in a court of law with this situation. It's also the only issue I have with all of this morally, to be honest. I learned a long time ago that jerks, bigots and a-holes come in all shapes, sizes, colors, religions, creeds and, yes...sexual orientations. These people can't be changed and trying to create legal issues around their actions where there are none doesn't make any difference.

Kinda' surprised at you , Jag.

Not at all surprised at you, Slim.

jag

 

[Sandman138]

See. That's why you're confused. You're really agreeing with the rest of society, not Celldog. It's common consensus that the fire chief stepped out of bounds and made a mistake she's going to pay for.

So unless you agree with bigotry, you're not agreeing with Celldog.

Oh, okay. That makes sense.

 

[PhotoJones]

It's an analogy, and like all analogies, it is imperfect, if it was perfect, they wouldn't be analogous, they'd be the exact same. Like it or not, their are similarities, and the gay rights movement was modeled after the civil rights movement. Am I saying that gay people have the exact same concerns as black people? No. Indeed, a black gay woman has different concerns than a white gay man, but both minorities faced similar challenges at different times in this past century.

Okay, I'll try to make it simpler for you.

Celldog: "I hate gay people. They are the Devil's children."

You: "I agree with Celldog."

Is that what you're saying?

 

[Kritish]

Okay, I'll try to make it simpler for you.

Celldog: "I hate gay people. They are the Devil's children."

You: "I agree with Celldog."

Is that what you're saying?

That's not how you do Celldog, this is Celldog.

[Celldog] Gay people are evil. Evil right down to their cold, black hearts, which pump not blood, like yours and mine, but rather a thick, black vomitous oil. [/Celldog]

 

[Sandman138]

Okay, I'll try to make it simpler for you.

Celldog: "I hate gay people. They are the Devil's children."

You: "I agree with Celldog."

Is that what you're saying?

That was directed at Cristo *****ing about me insulting black people.

 

[PhotoJones]

Oh, okay. That makes sense.

That's because it's logic and reason based.

That was directed at Cristo *****ing about me insulting black people.

I see the correction now.

 

[CristoTheSecond]

@Cristo: It's an analogy, and like all analogies, it is imperfect, if it was perfect, they wouldn't be analogous, they'd be the exact same. Like it or not, their are similarities, and the gay rights movement was modeled after the civil rights movement. Am I saying that gay people have the exact same concerns as black people? No. Indeed, a black gay woman has different concerns than a white gay man, but both minorities faced similar challenges at different times in this past century.

What similarities? The only similarities are ones that gay people have made themselves. There are no plain-to-see similarities.

 

[PhotoJones]

What similarities? The only similarities are ones that gay people have made themselves. There are no plain-to-see similarities.

^ If that doesn't confirm the identity, I don't know what will.

 

[jaguarr]

What similarities? The only similarities are ones that gay people have made themselves. There are no plain-to-see similarities.

Are you serious?

jag

 

[Memphis Slim]

Not at all surprised at you, Slim.

jag

Good.....I'm consistent.

 

[jaguarr]

Good.....I'm consistent.

Nahhh. Sometimes you and I agree on certain things, sometimes we don't. It's the way of the world. :strokesbeardknowingly:

jag

 

[PhotoJones]

Nahhh. Sometimes you and I agree on certain things, sometimes we don't. It's the way of the world. :strokesbeardknowingly:

jag

What could you possibly agree with Celldog about?

 

[jaguarr]

What could you possibly agree with Celldog about?

We both agree that En Vogue was better than SWV. Important stuff like that.

jag

 

[PhotoJones]

We both agree that En Vogue was better than SWV. Important stuff like that.

jag

Got it.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Those are exactly my thoughts. I very much in favor of gay marriage and gay rights in general, but this was a bit extreme.

I do agree as well that some people jump to conclusions when someone disagrees with a certain factor of the homosexual lifestyle. My dad is a conservative who doesn't feel they should have the right to marry (though he's in favor of civil unions and gay right s ingeneral), and because of that people think he's a hateful person, when in fact he has no problem with gays at all.

Luckily I haven't faced that.

I have known a few homosexuals in my time, and I am accepting of them. But in no ways do I agree with their lifestyle choice.

And yes, I do believe it is a choice. Maybe not a concious choice... but a choice none-the-less. I didn't wake up one day deciding what type of music and movies I liked. Those preferences developed as I learned what did and didn't appeal to me. And I believe it is the same for homosexuality. You don't wake up saying "I'm GAY now!!!", but over time, you learn what appeals to you, and sometimes, it's not the opposite sex.

I don't agree with homosexuality. Men and women were created for a reason - procreation. You can't procreate with the same gender. I don't believe it is natural, and I don't agree with it.

At the same time, someone else's lifestyle choice, when it is a personal decision of their's, has absolutley no effect on me or my life. If a guy wants to sleep with another guy, that is their business, not mine. I don't agree with it, but I have no right to tell you what you can or can't do in your own personal life. If gays want to get married, then I think they should. I believe they should have the same rights as everyone else, and shouldn't be oppressed for a lifestyle choice that doesn't harm anyone.

Along with that, I also don't have a problem with gay people personally. I have known, and befriended gays before, and I don't treat them any differently than my heterosexual aquantences. When I have gay guys who are all but stalking me, and won't take no for an answer, that's when I have a problem. Other than that, I don't care.

 

[Darthphere]

The firefighters couldn't fight these flames off.

 

[moraldeficiency]

This thread has become gay...

 

[Erzengel]

Everybody Dance Now!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kZaTjxnfEwU

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I disagree with your last statement. That's like telling women who are being taunted and harassed by men to just, 'get over it.'

Well... yea, they should.

Honestly.

In any case, I really get tired of people crying "sexual harrassment" at every point.