For Political Lovers: If you were to run for president what would be your platform?

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

definitely militarize the border with orders to shoot anyone coming across. that'll put an end to it pretty damn quick.

You live in the midwest don't you....

 

[Kritish]

Hey Mysterio, I've got a better idea. Let's shoot an illegal and string him up on a fence to serve as a lesson to others. You know, like a coyote.

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Hey Mysterio, I've got a better idea. Let's shoot an illegal and string him up on a fence to serve as a lesson to others. You know, like a coyote.

Dear God, don't give him any ideas!

 

[jaguarr]

minimum wage isn't $2 or $3 dollars an hour, so i fail to see your point or how that even addresses mine.

As others have intimated, this is indeed the case.

jag

 

[mrsparkle]

Kids can't vote. You fail.

jag

someone cant smell a joke.

 

[jaguarr]

someone cant smell a joke.

I've got something you can smell.

jag

 

[Mysterio]

What he means is that illegial immigrants are the ones picking our strawberries and fruits as well as many other jobs Americans think they are too good for.

Therefore they will not take any job and you fail to see Jag's point because you fail to see the bigger picture my friend.

again, americans will take any job if the pay is good. that includes "picking our strawberries and fruits."

 

[mrsparkle]

I've got something you can smell.

jag

Is it an airfreshening cardboard pine tree? You saucy devil you:heart:

 

[jaguarr]

again, americans will take any job if the pay is good. that includes "picking our strawberries and fruits."

How many Americans do you know that have worked 8-10 hours a day, five days a week in the field picking strawberries for minimum wage?

jag

 

[Mysterio]

As others have intimated, this is indeed the case.

let's quickly review: i said americans will take any job if it pays enough, and you chose to highlight that particular line from my post. you asked, "How many Americans do you know who have been out in the fields picking strawberries for minimum wage 8-10 hours a day, five days a week? Let alone 6-7 days a week for $2-3 an hour?"

again, $2 and $3/hour are below minimum wage. that does not discount my saying americans will take any job if it pays enough. so i don't see your point. as a hypothetical, do you think americans would pick strawberries if it paid $25/hr? $100/hr? $1000/hr? do you think there aren't any americans picking strawberries, fruit, lettuce, etc. in this country at all?

 

[Kritish]

Dear God, don't give him any ideas!

He would have came up with it by himself eventually.

 

[Mysterio]

How many Americans do you know that have worked 8-10 hours a day, five days a week in the field picking strawberries for minimum wage?

again, that doesn't discount what i've said. i said that americans would take any job as long as it paid enough. for whatever reason, you seem to believe that means minimum wage. also, americans aren't going to work 10 hours a day, five days a week and get paid overtime. that ain't happening.

 

[jaguarr]

let's quickly review: i said americans will take any job if it pays enough, and you chose to highlight that particular line from my post. you asked, "How many Americans do you know who have been out in the fields picking strawberries for minimum wage 8-10 hours a day, five days a week? Let alone 6-7 days a week for $2-3 an hour?"

again, $2 and $3/hour are below minimum wage. that does not discount my saying americans will take any job if it pays enough. so i don't see your point. as a hypothetical, do you think americans would pick strawberries if it paid $25/hr? $100/hr? $1000/hr?

You completely missed the point, on that we do agree. The work is currently done by illegals for $2-3 an hour, not even minimum wage. By law, the growers would have to pay American citizens at least minimum wage which is 2-3 times higher than what they are paying now. IF they could find enough American workers willing to leave the welfare and unemployment systems or less strenuous minimum wage jobs to do the work for minimum wage, this would send the cost of strawberries skyrocketing. Even worse if it paid $25 an hour. Pretty soon, nobody is buying strawberries. The farmers fold up shop. All those people are once again out of a job and there's now even more of a burden on welfare and unemployment. You just killed an industry and cost the tax payers even more dollars. Congratulations. Let's put those dirty lettuce farmers out of business next.

jag

 

[Mysterio]

You completely missed the point, on that we do agree. The work is currently done by illegals for $2-3 an hour, not even minimum wage. By law, the growers would have to pay American citizens at least minimum wage which is 2-3 times higher than what they are paying now. IF they could find enough American workers willing to leave the welfare and unemployment systems or less strenuous minimum wage jobs to do the work for minimum wage, this would send the cost of strawberries skyrocketing. Even worse if it paid $25 an hour. Pretty soon, nobody is buying strawberries. The farmers fold up shop. All those people are once again out of a job and there's now even more of a burden on welfare and unemployment. You just killed an industry and cost the tax payers even more dollars. Congratulations. Let's put those dirty lettuce farmers out of business next.

not even close to a realistic scenario. let's take things one step at a time (we'll get to the rest shortly), you claimed that these jobs are jobs americans wouldn't do. do you actually disagree that if the job paid enough, americans would do them? for example, if it paid $25/hr do you think americans wouldn't take the job?

 

[jaguarr]

not even close to a realistic scenario. let's take things one step at a time (we'll get to the rest shortly), you claimed that these jobs are jobs americans wouldn't do. do you actually disagree that if the job paid enough, americans would do them? for example, if it paid $25/hr do you think americans wouldn't take the job?

What do you think the would happen to the economy and the national market for produce and other goods produced by underpaid illegals if all of those jobs paid $25 an hour? It's a totally realistic scenario and naive to think that you could possibly sustain an economy like that. You'd send inflation through the roof. It's all connected. Would Americans do a job like that for $25 an hour? Sure. Is that the entire point you're trying to make? That Americans will do that work for $25/hour? Okay. I hope they save that money because that job isn't going to last very long when the market for it shrivels up and people refuse to pay enough for the product that it covers all the overhead and margins for the farmers and sellers so that they can reap enough profit to make it worth their while. Your whole argument is that people will do crappy jobs if they are paid well enough. Well, duh. But it's not realistic to think that the kind of money your citing as necessary to lure Americans to do those jobs allows for a sustainable market.

jag

 

[Kritish]

Guys, can I assassinate Mysterio if he becomes president?

 

[Matt]

Why do you guys even bite? He is clearly just stating ridiculously outrageous things to get attention.

 

[DBella]

What farmer in their right mind is willing to pay $25/hour to have people pick strawberries? Do you realize what that will do for the price of strawberries? It'd be ridiculously high. McDonald's will start charging for the tiny pack of Strawberry jam they're giving for 'free' now. bad place no!

I am so glad you're not running for political office, Mysterio. You're ridiculous!

 

[jaguarr]

Why do you guys even bite? He is clearly just stating ridiculously outrageous things to get attention.

I just find it affirming that there's someone who knows far, far less about basic economics than I do because I am the furthest thing from an expert and even I understand these concepts.

jag

 

[Mysterio]

What do you think the would happen to the economy and the national market for produce and other goods produced by underpaid illegals if all of those jobs paid $25 an hour? It's a totally realistic scenario and naive to think that you could possibly sustain an economy like that. You'd send inflation through the roof. It's all connected. Would Americans do a job like that for $25 an hour? Sure. Is that the entire point you're trying to make? That Americans will do that work for $25/hour? Okay. I hope they save that money because that job isn't going to last very long when the market for it shrivels up and people refuse to pay enough for the product that it covers all the overhead and margins for the farmers and sellers so that they can reap enough profit to make it worth their while. Your whole argument is that people will do crappy jobs if they are paid well enough. Well, duh. But it's not realistic to think that the kind of money your citing as necessary to lure Americans to do those jobs allows for a sustainable market.

jag

like i said, let's take this a step at a time. thank you for answering the question. do you think they would do it for $10? i think that's a "yes" as well. i think you'd find americans who would do it for less than that, even. the fact is, if you have an abundance of labor, you're going to have low wages for everyone - especially when you have a glut of illegal labor doing the job for less than minimum wage. when there is a demand for labor, wages increase as well. eliminate the illegals, and you will see the demand for labor increase and wages increase. eventually, the wages market itself will even out. will prices go up? perhaps, but not enough to eliminate an industry. industry will find ways to compensate other than solely raising prices or pricing themselves out of business. but at least we got rid of this ridiculous notion that americans won't do these jobs. that's a start.

 

[Mysterio]

Why do you guys even bite? He is clearly just stating ridiculously outrageous things to get attention.

not at all. there isn't a single thing i've said that is either ridiculous or outrageous.

 

[Mysterio]

What farmer in their right mind is willing to pay $25/hour to have people pick strawberries? Do you realize what that will do for the price of strawberries? It'd be ridiculously high. McDonald's will start charging for the tiny pack of Strawberry jam they're giving for 'free' now. bad place no!

please. i never said that. i was using a hypothetical wage to disprove the ridiculous notion that americans won't do these jobs. americans will do the jobs if the pay is good, whether that's $25, $13, $10, or $8. this is not a difficult concept. and so what if prices of goods go up? not everyone can purchase a ferrari or many other goods that cost far less. as demand decreases (if it will), so will prices in order to increase demand. the market works itself out.

 

[Venom'sDad]

...

Love your avatar.

 

[jaguarr]

like i said, let's take this a step at a time. thank you for answering the question. do you think they would do it for $10? i think that's a "yes" as well. i think you'd find americans who would do it for less than that, even. the fact is, if you have an abundance of labor, you're going to have low wages for everyone - especially when you have a glut of illegal labor doing the job for less than minimum wage. when there is a demand for labor, wages increase as well. eliminate the illegals, and you will see the demand for labor increase and wages increase. eventually, the wages market itself will even out. will prices go up? perhaps, but not enough to eliminate an industry. industry will find ways to compensate other than solely raising prices or pricing themselves out of business. but at least we got rid of this ridiculous notion that americans won't do these jobs. that's a start.

Actually, I don't think very many Americans would do that kind of back breaking work for $10 an hour. Especially the ones already getting a sweet ride on welfare and unemployment. And, the ones that would really be need to do the work in order to make this plan of yours successful live largely in the cities and nowhere near the fields where the work is. And if you increase the costs of goods by five times what they currently are, which is what they'd have to do to cover the margins if they were paying $10/hour, your market will significantly shrink. Possibly and perhaps even probably to the point that you will not be able to stay in business any longer. I like your well thought out counterpoint of "industry will find ways to compensate other than solely raising prices or pricing themselves out of business". So, what efficiency and process gains would they make that they already haven't that would allow them to keep from having to raise prices up to a point where the average consumer can't or won't buy their produce or products? This is already a low margin, high volume business we're talking about. They're driven to efficiencies already by necessity. It's naive to say that industry will just "find a way".

So, yes, you got rid of the notion that American's won't do these jobs by proposing to pay them $10-25/hr which probably isn't enough to lure them in sufficient numbers to sustain an industry on the low end of your proposed salary range and completely unable to keep an industry going in the marketplace in either instance or anywhere in between. So, at the cost of economic stability and the sustainability of several industries, we proved that Americans will do jobs if you offer them enough money. Never mind that the kind of money we're talking about isn't realistic at all.

jag

 

[jaguarr]

please. i never said that. i was using a hypothetical wage to disprove the ridiculous notion that americans won't do these jobs. americans will do the jobs if the pay is good, whether that's $25, $13, $10, or $8. this is not a difficult concept. and so what if prices of goods go up? not everyone can purchase a ferrari or many other goods that cost far less. as demand decreases (if it will), so will prices in order to increase demand. the market works itself out.

You really don't understand the cumulative and interconnected ramifications on the economy of the cost of goods going up on a cross-industry basis? Decreased demand does not instantly equal reduced prices in order to created increased demand. It doesn't necessarily work that way at all. And in order for the cost of goods to some down to an acceptable level, guess what? The cost of labor is going to have to come down severely, because that's the only margin control point these businesses have anymore. Cost of labor goes down, people lose their jobs or can't afford things anyway. The entire economic index goes down the sh1tter. Industries dry up to a trickle or completely. You're advocating creating a massive economic depression.

jag