Germans. Still Evil?

[Thundercrack85]

My money is on North Korea. For the big one, I mean.

 

[Schlosser85]

They're certainly crazy enough.

 

[Silvermoth]

This thread shows the silliest understanding of World War II history really. The idea that the Germans were inferior and weak which led to nazism.

Do you know what the difference between and nazi and you genetically is? Nothing at all. That's the important lesson to take away from this. That hatred of people for superficial reasons is always wrong and that it's a constant struggle to keep bad people away.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I missed that part.

What I would argue is that the Nazis didn't really do all that much to create the popular stereotype of Germans being "evil". Really, World War I did it first (that was back when yellow journalists had their reign). And even before World War I, Germans were known for their ruthless efficiency and proficiency in battle. Read some literature from the Napoleonic era.

World War II just strengthened the old stereotype.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Because collateral damage in warfare is the same as systematically rounding up every Iraqi man, woman, and child and shoving them into gas chambers.

This is among the more dim-witted (or disingenuous) false equivalences I've read.

Eh, not to them. Bush regularly shows up on lists of people, usually from countries outside the US and they equate with Hitler, Stalin, and others (yet Obama gets this far less). Again, this is sort of the "you killed more" game. Because to the victims, they don't really ask much about the method.

"Oh he was killed in an air strike meant to intimidate a few people in our countries...oh, that's fine. At least it wasn't rounding up people".

The Germans chose the method they chose due to a variety of factors, it's not as if those were their only option. It just fit their existing infrastructure, and they stole the policy from us, studying our Indian Removal policy. Also, the ripping out gold teeth, and some of the more egregious torture methods were isolated, generally because SS officers had dictatorial control over their camps, basically enabling them to do whatever they saw fit. Famously Mengle, who got his medical license from I assume whatever school Dick Cheney went to, did tons of experiments, and was almost fired by people who began to get wise. They were also somewhat in competition with each other, especially at the camps that drove production. So you had people who were very brutal, then you had a few small cases of camps that were run fairly nicely (ya'know for a prison camp you weren't allowed to leave). Most of what you read about specific Nazi death methods are anecdotes. Like the story of electrocution, we know that happened quite a bit, and why it's reported on less than other things who knows. Most common method was shooting them, surprise, surprise. Actually most died of disease before even reaching some sort of chamber, gun barrel or whatever else.

But there's a lot of anecdotes about our soldiers or torture methods we have employed.

If you want a contemporary example, Reservations were still policed at gunpoint in the 1940s, and we were still torturing and killing Natives at the time.

 

[chamber-music]

I should also ask, what exactly are people expecting?

Before Germans were stereotyped as Nazis, they were Prussians and Huns. And before that Goths and Barbarians. Most of the world didn't exactly have warm fuzzy feelings towards Germans (and the Germans liked it that way, that was their thing).

Now the French have had it much worse in the stereotypes department. The Germans went from scary, ruthless killers, to racist, genocidal ruthless killers thanks to World War II. The French went from brave romantics to "cheese eating surrender monkeys". The Germans will live down World War II before the French.

The french surrender easily isn't a globally held stereotype or atleast not as big one was the Germans = Nazis one.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The french surrender easily isn't a globally held stereotype or atleast not as big one was the Germans = Nazis one.

I have to disagree.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

The french surrender easily isn't a globally held stereotype or atleast not as big one was the Germans = Nazis one.

Really. The French have the best win percentage as an army/nation from my understanding.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Doesn't matter if you worst defeat is in the most significant war in history.

Plus it was a spectacularly bad defeat at that. And then followed by losing wars in their colonies, including Vietnam.

 

[Schlosser85]

This thread shows the silliest understanding of World War II history really. The idea that the Germans were inferior and weak which led to nazism.

Where did anyone say that?

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Doesn't matter if you worst defeat is in the most significant war in history.

Plus it was a spectacularly bad defeat at that. And then followed by losing wars in their colonies, including Vietnam.

Well my addendum to that could've been "and then the last 70 some years for them haven't been going so good".

 

[Erzengel]

The french surrender easily isn't a globally held stereotype or atleast not as big one was the Germans = Nazis one.

I made a joke to some Canadian friends and they didn't understand it.

Then I had to explain to them what a joke was.

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

Germany has done a far better job owning up to its past atrocities than Japan, or for that matter IMO the United States.

Also, Germany has throughout its history been a cradle of culture and civilization and a technologically-advanced nation. Its history hardly begins in 1933 and ends in 1945.

This "collective guilt" nonsense that some believe in, acting like all Germans are somehow morally responsible for events that happened decades before they were born, is just racist.

Agreed. Japan were responsible for many deaths and horrible acts committed to POW at camp sites.

 

[NickNitro]

I know this thread has been very heated with discussion, and rightfully so. I wish I was intelligent enough to contribute any form of deep thought on the matter but sadly I feel you guys would chew me up and spit me out. I do not have the arguing abilities as some of you vets.

To potentially lighten the mood a hair I found this little gem.

Were the Power Rangers actually secret Nazi's? Was Hitler Zordon?

 

[Lunar_Wolf]

lmao

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Doesn't matter if you worst defeat is in the most significant war in history.

Plus it was a spectacularly bad defeat at that. And then followed by losing wars in their colonies, including Vietnam.

You can't hold Vietnam against the French. America lost that war too after wasting far more blood and treasure.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I know this thread has been very heated with discussion, and rightfully so. I wish I was intelligent enough to contribute any form of deep thought on the matter but sadly I feel you guys would chew me up and spit me out. I do not have the arguing abilities as some of you vets.

To potentially lighten the mood a hair I found this little gem.

Were the Power Rangers actually secret Nazi's? Was Hitler Zordon?

I knew that show was f***ed up.

 

[RetrogradeOrbit]

If I recall my history correctly, the reason why Nazism took hold and flourished is because of the impoverished conditions in Germany following their defeat in the First World War. Reparations being paid out and restriction on the size of army and weapons. Led to a culture where when Hitler was spouting about Germany taking back what was theirs, i.e. Austria, Poland and rebuilding Germany's strength, economy, jobs and infrastructure, enough people listened and agreed so that he eventually was able to became chancellor.
Once he had that power, things changed and the Jewish section of the population were made out to be scapegoats for everything bad that had happened and was happening in Germany. Once again Hitler was compelling in his rhetoric and enough people bought into it so that he could create the SS and populate it with like minded people. Although it turned out that these people were as interested in power for themselves and avoiding Hitlers wrath being directed toward them.

Once the general public realised what Hitler was really about, it was too late to easily do anything about it as he and his followers were too entrenched to be easily removed and the penalty for disobedience was usually swift and brutal.

But to answer the OP question, Germans are not (still) evil, but conditions can exist where an evil minority can flourish and take a hold.

Take a look at what is happening in Greece with the "Golden Dawn" movement. The parallels to them and how Nazism started in Germany in the 1930's is truly frightening. We have learnt nothing as a species in the last hundred years.

 

[NickNitro]

Not only were their costumes racist.....but their salute's were as well! Shame on you Power Rangers...shame on you

 

[Marvolo]

Leave it to Hitler to ruin a symbol of peace and the roman salute. Fun fact:

The American Flag salute was originally the Roman Salute. After Hitler hijacked it the american flag salute was changed to the hand over the heart.

 

[NickNitro]

And a favorite childhood show ^^^

 

[Dr. Evil]

Reading about the number of Nazis that escaped to South America after World War II, including Josef Mengele, Adolph Eichmann and Klaus Barbie I was a bit surprised that none of those that escaped persecution for years went to South Africa. South Africa would have been a perfect hideout for ex Nazis right after the War.

I would think that Eichmann and Barbie (and a few others who went to South America and were later captured) would have never been caught if they went to South Africa instead of South America.

I believe that South Africa had already been independent by World War II, so how come it wasn't a safe haven for ex Nazis like South America was?

 

[Marvolo]

Reading about the number of Nazis that escaped to South America after World War II, including Josef Mengele, Adolph Eichmann and Klaus Barbie I was a bit surprised that none of those that escaped persecution for years went to South Africa. South Africa would have been a perfect hideout for ex Nazis right after the War.

I would think that Eichmann and Barbie (and a few others who went to South America and were later captured) would have never been caught if they went to South Africa instead of South America.

I believe that South Africa had already been independent by World War II, so how come it wasn't a safe haven for ex Nazis like South America was?

Probably too many black africans in and around South Africa for their liking.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Also I'd think it would be harder to travel incognito to South Africa. Especially back then.

 

[Marvolo]

Also I'd think it would be harder to travel incognito to South Africa. Especially back then.

The British had control of the North, didn't they? Might be hard to get through that.