• The upgrade to XenForo 2.3.7 has now been completed. Please report any issues to our administrators.

Transformers Realism and Cartoons

I loved A.I. I even remember all the internet scavenger hunting that was going on before the film was released. It was crazy.

I'm more of american pop culture movies than the movies on HK's list. Goonies is classic in my book...hell, my nickname was Booty Traps because I looked so much like that kid when I was young. So of course that movie is in my top 10 on ymdb.
 
CFlash said:
Yeah. It's usually the Director's fault. I love Lucas as a writer/visionary... but I sooooo wish he had handed over the reigns for the prequels to someone else (like he did for Empire Strikes Back). Still, he kinda made up for it with Revenge. Love that freakin movie.

I guess I just don't feel like the acting was any better in Empire compared to the other ones.
 
bunk said:
I guess I just don't feel like the acting was any better in Empire compared to the other ones.

Maybe not...but the story was handled a lot better and overall it had a more dramatic feel to it. He micromanaged the prequels a LOT more than he did the originals.
 
Headless Knight said:
Uh... I guess you don't have to trust me.:confused: You could read a few articles about directing (and movies in general), and confirm what I'm saying...

But, you know, you don't have to that either. It will make no difference in my life whatsoever, I swear.

Headless Knight said:
Uh... I guess you don't have to trust me.:confused: You could read a few articles about directing (and movies in general), and confirm what I'm saying...

But, you know, you don't have to that either. It will make no difference in my life whatsoever, I swear.

I'm not saying the Director doesn't play a part in how the actors perform. All I'm saying is that it's not Ratner's fault if you didn't like the acting in Red Dragon. I don't think Hopkins and Norton need their hands held as actors to perform well and I doubt they'd agree they were just going through the motions. A bad script means bad acting and a bad movie, a quality script may still shine through the actors even if the director is incompetent. And as far as RD is concerned I thought all three parts were solid. We'll just have to agree to disagree about that. There's no need to be condescending, just don't respond if you've lost interest in the convo.
 
I gotta shoot this bullsh** down...




As I've been going through rants and raves about this movie, I've noticed a lot of self proclaimed fans whine and ***** about how this movie is ruining their childhood. Think about it, you're an adult crying over a toy and cartoon. There's nothing wrong with being a fan, but you have to know the difference between being a fan and being a fanatic. Fanatics do not think logically. I am a huge TF fan, grew up watching the G1 cartoons, had the toys with authentic TF insignias you rub to see if it's an official Hasbro toy. At first I wasn't sure about the direction the movie was going w/ the designs. But being a fan means supporting the product, to help introduce future generations to something we've all grown and love.

The toys did not match the show about 70% of the time.
If the show's producers did attempt to do such, the show would have looked really crappy. (No heads for Ironhide or Ratchet, Blaster is twice the size of Prime, etc...)

The show/movie, and to an extent the comic books, brought us a world where the characters took center stage. THOSE characters are what most of the fanbase are attached to...



1. What's up with Optimus Prime's design? First it was the complaint about his long nose and flames from AICN's leak. Quint recently talked to Bay about it and says, "The reason I went with the flames was to be able to define Prime's mid-section when he's a robot." Apparently, the flames are set sort of like ribs on the robot Prime, giving his mid-section more than just a monotone look. He also said that the only reason he picked a long-nose truck instead of a flat-nose truck was purely for the additional mass." This comparison image shows the differences between a G1 Prime and the new movie Prime.

Prime's midsection was defined quite well in his G1 appearance.
I do agree with needing more mass to make Prime a larger robot, but it could have been achieved more creatively.

Traditional Prime - Bay's Prime

I think using the traditional color scheme for Prime is a bit aesthetically boring. Robot mode looks fine but alt mode is just too uninteresting. So Prime looks more interesting and detailed with flames, so Bay decided to go that way. It doesn't mean Bay has gone his own way apart from the TF. The truck is almost identical to the G2 Laser Rod Optimus Prime. And it's a very common practice for semi owners to put decal on their trucks, be it flames or not. It's nothing new or surprising if you've driven on any US highway.

Those flames look like crap, especially when they are totally opposite of Prime's character.
Flames scream "bad-ass anti-hero", like a biker or something to that effect.
Adding flames also draws attention to the vehicle, instead of letting the vehicle blend in: one of the main principles of the transforming concept.

2. Why isn't Bumblebee a VW Bug? So people are crying that BB is not a vw bug but a camaro. So forget that Hasbro has been trying to get a VW out for some time, and Hasbro designer Aaron Archer stated, "Volkswagen had refused to license an Alternator BB. Volkswagen refused to license the car, however, supposedly due to the warlike nature of the Transformers. Since VW was hit hard in 2002 by a lawsuit by holocaust victims for their involvement in WWII (as a German manufacturer), VW is understandably reluctant to have its name tied to anything that could be considered a war machine." So yes, legally, they can't make BB like his G1 counterpart. But is his counterpart partically the best way to go? A yellow Camaro with black stripes look a lot more like a bumblebee than a yellow VW Bug. The Bug looks a lot more like a yellow dung beetle to me.

Camaro - VW Bug

Writers Bob and Alex stated that they wanted BB to be cool. As dorky as we see the VW Bug, in the 80's, it was considered a cool thing. Now, the Bug is everything but cool. I'm sure you played that game where when you saw a Slug Bug, you punched your friends. The car's a joke. Wouldn't you rather see Sam, as a leading character, drive the Camaro. He's not Lindsay Lohan and BB is not Herbie.

Bumblebee was/is NOT a "cool" character. He was the little runt that had to prove himself amongst the other Autobots. Making him a muscle car totally disrespects the original character. They could have easily used one of the sub-compact dars that are so popular these days. (Scion xA, Yaris, Aveo, Vibe, Matrix... the list goes on...)

3. Why do the decepticons look like insects while the autobots look humanoid? Well, I'm surprised I haven't seen any one post this, but have you noticed the design for the TF resemble their insignias? Well, isn't that a shocker. The design team did use the most recognizable identification as a starting point in the design of the autobots and decepticons.

Transformers Insignias

Both factions originate from the same species/brand, according to the original story. This is yet another example of Bay and crew's creative erections going limp mid-stroke.

4. The TF are too so complicated? It's gonna take forever to transform my toys. How many times are the producers/writers going to have to explain they're making a movie here, not a toyline. A movie design shouldn't be influenced by its merchandising. I want to see giant ****ing robots on screen transforming and destroying as cool and awestrucking as possible. If you're watching this movie just for the toy, you're watching it for the wrong reason. I'm watching a movie about characters I grew up with, separate from the G1 cartoons and toys. If I wanted it exactly like the cartoon, I would just watch them. If I wanted TF toys, than I would buy more TF Alternators. My Nemesis Prime is kicking *** on my shelf right now (and he's a Dodge Ram not a Semi). Transformers The Movie, is exactly what it says it is in the title. A movie.

With Hasbro involved, a toyline was a GIVEN. Why they saw fit to totally ignore the excellent "Alternators" line in search of something more "realistic" is yet another leadership blunder at Hasbro. I'm amazed these dudes still have jobs...

5. The writers don't know anything about the G1 cartoon. The cartoon is perfect as is. Have you seen the cartoons lately? Episode 1, doesn't make sense that all the transformers in Cybertronian form look like their alt mode on Earth, before they even arrive there. Bumblebee is a VW Bug in robot mode and a flying saucer in his alt mode.

Bumblebee, the flying saucer.

The cartoon is not exactly the perfect source material. And fans complain about exposing parts in a movie that hasn't even come out yet. I'm thinking people are just looking for things to nitpick at now. Change it up to make it more acceptable. They are living beings. They need a complicated body not just balljoints. Fear of change has given fans this mindset that what a person grew up with as perfect.

Change was indeed needed, but not a total desecration of the old property. Once again, I bring up the "Alternators" line as an example of updating the old characters into new forms and still retaining classic features. Maybe they should have hired Takara's design team? NOPE. Not American enough...

6. They got Spider-man and X-men right, why can't they get Transformers right? SM was far from perfect. Dunst made a horrible MJ which should've been Gwen Stacey. Green Goblin looked like a power ranger. Organic webbing, genetically altered spider, changes continue. But no matter the changes, it was still a fun movie. X-men had Halle Berry's disappearing/reappearing African accent. Wolverine is a foot taller than he's suppose to be. Rogue can't fly, Jean Grey evolved into the phoenix, etc. Singer took a lot of creative liberties with XM, but the spirit of the XM was there, so the movie succeeded. So what the fans should be so adamant about are the personalities of each character not the design.

Spider-Man and X-Men changed roughly 20% of the visuals, and kept most of the characters' personalities intact. Mind you, these are human characters, so there was a need to stick to some sort of realism as well as respect the old stuff...

Bay is retaining about 12% of the old source material.

7. We absolutely hate Starscream! I have to agree, he's just ugly. No arguments. The toy prototype does resemble Waspinator. But remember, it's just an early toy prototype. It's not even colored. Wouldn't surprise me if they changed Starscream's design. Being vocal, yet logical, does help when you can give constructive criticisms.

"Masterpiece Starscream" says it all. Once again, this is a result of a horrible creative team. Hell, using the word "creative" is being generous...

8. Megatron should be a gun! I've always hated megatron as a gun. So ignore the fact that the 1988 “Federal Toy Gun Law” forbids the sale of toy guns, Megatron's alt mode is a mass shifting pistol that doesn't have mobility and requires Starscream to fire. So I welcome the change of Megatron to be more like Galvatron. So he looks hideous. But remember, in the leaked script, Megatron appears on Earth and gets discovered in the late 19th century, before tanks and jets. He has to look not from this Earth as much as possible. I wouldn't be surprised if Megatron adapts to a more modern alt mode as the story progresses.

Megatron should be a tank or another war vehicle comparable to Prime's size... WITH a big black cannon on his right arm. There are concept designs out there (Prowler974, I see you! haha) that prove it COULD have been done nicely... but they didn't care to.

9. Jazz should be a porsche! Well, I agree there too but considering Porsche owns a large share of VW, they might follow the same views on war machines being associated with them. I saw a white 2006 Pontiac Solstice yesterday, and it doesn't look bad. Passible as Jazz even though he's gray in the movie, shows up better on screen? Who knows. Those who complain about the value of the car, low production of the Solstice makes it a bit more rare. I'm curious about why there are so many American cars. I'm hoping a way to can get more imports in Transformers is by supporting the movie to make it a success so car manufacturers will compete for a chance to have a concept in the upcoming sequels.

If Porsche doesn't want their cars int he film, by all means it's their right.
Jazz was remade NICELY as a Mazda RX8 for the "Alternators" line. (Google for "Meister")

10. Bay as a director? What more do you want? Bay's directing, Speilberg producing, ILM doing effects. Bay knows action ie. Bad Boys 2, the Rock, though critics say his stories are usually lacking. But as least his dialogs aren't as wooden as Lucas'. Padme's dead? NOOO! Bay specializes in fast action, low angle shots with lots of panning. That's perfect for the TF. You want Michael Mann's shaky cam shots? Singer? Superman didn't throw one punch in the whole movie, just stalked Lois the whole 3 hours. Peter Jackson would have had a 20 minute slow motion scene. Raimi would do his Evil Dead sped up style. There's no one better than Bay for this project.

As far as a director, Bay does a great job... of blowing things up and shooting things up. His character interaction leaves A LOT to be desired, as evidenced by the leaked script where the TFs hardly speak.

There's no pleasing some fans. Be happy a movie is even being made. If you don't like it, you have the 20th Anniversary Movie coming to DVD. But I think the reason everyone keeps coming back to the boards, ranting or raving, is because we're all excited about this movie. So like any other origin stories told on the big screen, support it so they can make a sequel even better than the first.

20 years from now, "TF:TM 2007" won't come close to being as loved and respected as "TF:TM 1986".

Before I read comments that I'm a plant from the studio or a single 40 year old virgin fanboy who lives in his mother's basement, I'm 27. I own my home and my gf is standing next to me yelling at me for looking at Transformers way too damn much. Studied film in school, 2 degrees from the Univ. of Texas. Worked for the government doing satellite surveillance and texture maps for game companies. Hung out with Kevin Spacey when he filmed "Life of David Gale" and my car was used in Linklater's "Fast Food Nation". I have a big love for cinema and Transformers. Looking forward to seeing it as I'm sure most of you are.

Great. You're a grown man. I'd say around 70% of us are posting from our jobs during the day, and might even log on at night after we put our children to bed and f*** the hell out of our hot wives/GFs.

F*** your life, though...

This is about Michael Bay and crew taking a property that needed rejuvenation and totally trashing it to fit THEIR personal desires.

This is "Bad Filmmaking 101" we're witnessing here.
Damned shame it had to be Transformers...

A true Transformers fan.

Paramount plant, more like it...
 
CherryRedSpider said:
Bay is going to have a problem with Prime then. That Autobot is all about the frontal nudes.

masterpiecefa9.jpg

Prime=Hoebag:o
 
truth0ne SGC said:
20 years from now, "TF:TM 2007" won't come close to being as loved and respected as "TF:TM 1986".


You had a lot of interesting points that you made with that long post even though I disagree with most of what you said. I totally disagree with the above statement made in your post. TF:TM in 1986 was cool for its time but, it was really a terrible movie once you break down all the plot inconsistencies, the horrible soundtrack, the idiotic new characters(Wheelie, Blurr, Wreckgar), and the weak introduction of new characters(No background on Hot Rod, Arcee, Ultra Magnus, Springer, and Kup). That movie was one big music video marketing mess. Below are 2 reviews which give pretty good evidence of why Transformers The Movie was not good.



http://www.builtstlouis.net/tf/manic/s-movie.html

http://www.fortheretarded.com/transformers.php

Here is a link that provides plenty of plot inconsistencies in the movie.

http://www.tfracetrack.com/tfmovie.html


I admire your passion after reading that long post but, I question your credibility after your "Transformers the movie was cool statement." Hasbro didn't give a rat's ass about the Transformers fans when the movie was released. All they cared about was getting rid of old characters so kids would buy the new toys. I will continue to support the new Transformers movie because it will probably be 10 times better than the crap we got in 1986.
 
I'm not a huge fan of the 1986 movie either. But, that doesn't mean Bay's movie needs to be a complete reimagination of the Transformers story and a complete disregard of its icons.
 
CFlash said:
I'm not a huge fan of the 1986 movie either. But, that doesn't mean Bay's movie needs to be a complete reimagination of the Transformers story and a complete disregard of its icons.


You are exagerating. How do we know Bay's movie is a complete reimagination of the Transformers story. The Autobots and Deceptions are still from a planet Cybertron aren't they. I have not read any of the leaked scripts but, they aren't all bad or are they. I enjoyed watching the original G1 cartoon like most people on this forum but, practically every episode of that series had a plot inconsistency. I am happy Bay is making many changes from the original source material because most of it was repetitive, inconsistent, and garbage. 99% of the episodes had something to do with the decepticons gathering earths resources to make energon cubes. The other 1% had to do with destroying the autobots so nothing could stop the decepticons from gathering earths resources to make energon cubes. Only a handful of those episode plots could translate well in a live action movie. The Ultimate Doom episodes had a unique idea(Bringing Cybertron into earth's atmosphere). Transport to Oblivion, Fire on the Mountain, and Heavy Metal War are the only other episodes I can think of that might translate to film. Many of the other episodes were entertaining despite their ridiculous plots.
 
Theweepeople said:
You are exagerating. How do we know Bay's movie is a complete reimagination of the Transformers story. The Autobots and Deceptions are still from a planet Cybertron aren't they. I have not read any of the leaked scripts but, they aren't all bad or are they. I enjoyed watching the original G1 cartoon like most people on this forum but, practically every episode of that series had a plot inconsistency. I am happy Bay is making many changes from the original source material because most of it was repetitive, inconsistent, and garbage. 99% of the episodes had something to do with the decepticons gathering earths resources to make energon cubes. The other 1% had to do with destroying the autobots so nothing could stop the decepticons from gathering earths resources to make energon cubes. Only a handful of those episode plots could translate well in a live action movie. The Ultimate Doom episodes had a unique idea(Bringing Cybertron into earth's atmosphere). Transport to Oblivion, Fire on the Mountain, and Heavy Metal War are the only other episodes I can think of that might translate to film. Many of the other episodes were entertaining despite their ridiculous plots.

LOL! Energon Cubes are like Transformer crack! They love that s***! Anyway I think its time I read the leaked script, I just can't help it I have to know. My question is: How close is this script to what is actually being used to film from?
 
Theweepeople said:
You are exagerating. How do we know Bay's movie is a complete reimagination of the Transformers story. The Autobots and Deceptions are still from a planet Cybertron aren't they. I have not read any of the leaked scripts but, they aren't all bad or are they. I enjoyed watching the original G1 cartoon like most people on this forum but, practically every episode of that series had a plot inconsistency. I am happy Bay is making many changes from the original source material because most of it was repetitive, inconsistent, and garbage. 99% of the episodes had something to do with the decepticons gathering earths resources to make energon cubes. The other 1% had to do with destroying the autobots so nothing could stop the decepticons from gathering earths resources to make energon cubes. Only a handful of those episode plots could translate well in a live action movie. The Ultimate Doom episodes had a unique idea(Bringing Cybertron into earth's atmosphere). Transport to Oblivion, Fire on the Mountain, and Heavy Metal War are the only other episodes I can think of that might translate to film. Many of the other episodes were entertaining despite their ridiculous plots.

I can respect that you are looking forward to this movie. And I can respect that you like the changes Bay is making. But I do not respect that you are calling the source material "garbage". If it weren't for this garbage source material there wouldn't be this movie OR 22 years of Transformers. As many people have said, nobody is looking for an exact translation of the original cartoon episodes but being more faithful to a franchise and its designs would not hurt this movie and actually could help...seeing as how fan backlash has been huge so far across the boards.

BTW...all your plot inconsistencies are due to different writers for different episodes...something that won't be a problem for a movie.
 
Theweepeople said:
You are exagerating. How do we know Bay's movie is a complete reimagination of the Transformers story. The Autobots and Deceptions are still from a planet Cybertron aren't they. I have not read any of the leaked scripts but, they aren't all bad or are they. I enjoyed watching the original G1 cartoon like most people on this forum but, practically every episode of that series had a plot inconsistency. I am happy Bay is making many changes from the original source material because most of it was repetitive, inconsistent, and garbage. 99% of the episodes had something to do with the decepticons gathering earths resources to make energon cubes. The other 1% had to do with destroying the autobots so nothing could stop the decepticons from gathering earths resources to make energon cubes. Only a handful of those episode plots could translate well in a live action movie. The Ultimate Doom episodes had a unique idea(Bringing Cybertron into earth's atmosphere). Transport to Oblivion, Fire on the Mountain, and Heavy Metal War are the only other episodes I can think of that might translate to film. Many of the other episodes were entertaining despite their ridiculous plots.

You said it yourself. Transformers was all about the Decepts gathering Earth's resources. THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT. Even more so when they first land on this planet. Bay's story is a great big departure from that. That's not a reimagination????

As for it being garbage.... well, I disagree. I wonder if 20 years from now there's gonna be idiots saying "Teen Titans was crap... half the time it was Raven whining about her father and the other half it was beat-the-villain-of-the-week."

So were the Transformers comic book and the actual backstory written for the toys themselves garbage as well??? I guess so. Thank god for Bay perfecting this franchise.
 
CFlash said:
You said it yourself. Transformers was all about the Decepts gathering Earth's resources. THAT WAS THE WHOLE POINT. Even more so when they first land on this planet. Bay's story is a great big departure from that. That's not a reimagination????

As for it being garbage.... well, I disagree. I wonder if 20 years from now there's gonna be idiots saying "Teen Titans was crap... half the time it was Raven whining about her father and the other half it was beat-the-villain-of-the-week."

So were the Transformers comic book and the actual backstory written for the toys themselves garbage as well??? I guess so. Thank god for Bay perfecting this franchise.

I never said all of the source material was garbage. A lot of it was. I have no problem with the deceptions using earth's resources to make energon cubes in a transformers movie and the autobots trying to stop them. However, these movies will lose their appeal if this same plot is used over and over again.

I want you all to tell me every horrible thing that Bay is doing to this film besides Gorillascream. :cmad:
 
Theweepeople said:
However, these movies will lose their appeal if this same plot is used over and over again.

The last Transformers movie was 20 years ago...and it was aimed almost strictly towards Transformers fans/kids.

I want you all to tell me every horrible thing that Bay is doing to this film besides Gorillascream. :cmad:

Don't forget Megatron...

I'll let people who've read the script tell you the rest.
 
nosebleed said:
The last Transformers movie was 20 years ago...and it was aimed almost strictly towards Transformers fans/kids.



Don't forget Megatron...

I'll let people who've read the script tell you the rest.


I have no problem with the way Megatron looks if there's a good explaination for why he looks so alien. Maybe his robot and alt modes will change during the film. We have already seen photos of his robot mode frozen. That gives a good indication of why he is the only decepticon that looks completely alien.
 
Theweepeople said:
I have no problem with the way Megatron looks if there's a good explaination for why he looks so alien. Maybe his robot and alt modes will change during the film. We have already seen photos of his robot mode frozen. That gives a good indication of why he is the only decepticon that looks completely alien.
yeah.... why do people not see this?

also..... this is a frachise. and only the begginning...... which needs to explain much.

sort of like LOTR... the first movie was very different from the other two... they had to set up everything for the fellowship, and by the end it was destroyed...................then the other two movies were just of them fighting the war.
 
Theweepeople said:
I have no problem with the way Megatron looks if there's a good explaination for why he looks so alien. Maybe his robot and alt modes will change during the film. We have already seen photos of his robot mode frozen. That gives a good indication of why he is the only decepticon that looks completely alien.

According to the script draft he doesn't change. I highly doubt that they will explain why he looks so alien considering HE IS ALIEN.
 
Avangarde X said:
According to the script draft he doesn't change. I highly doubt that they will explain why he looks so alien considering HE IS ALIEN.
it should be obvious though if they dont........
 
Avangarde X said:
According to the script draft he doesn't change. I highly doubt that they will explain why he looks so alien considering HE IS ALIEN.

You mentioned script and the word draft. This tells me that changes could have been made and hopefully have been made because if Megatron does not change his alt mode to an earth vehicle then the "Robots in Disguise phrase" means very little in this film.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Staff online

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
202,262
Messages
22,074,422
Members
45,876
Latest member
kedenlewis
Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"