Hawley's Doctor Doom Film

If I were doing a Doom film, I'd honestly do it as a straight superhero flick just from a villain's perspective.

Act I:
- Victor Von Doom flees from Latveria with his Romani father after his mother's death for being witch, establishing him as sympathetic, isolated and deeply scarred.
- An incredible genius discovered and offered an opportunity, Victor chooses to leave his poor Romani father, and his tales of mysticism behind and attend school in the states.
- Victor attends school with Reed Richards, and they are uber geniuses, Victor shares his vision for a better world where superiors like them make the best decisions, but Reed is too into science for its own sake and democracy and exploration. They work together on some nanites but something goes awry, and Victor is scarred, and blamed.
- Authorities, led by Agent Sharon Ventura come to arrest Victor and end his revolutionary work. Instead, he uses the nanites he has to construct a suit of armor which he uses to lay waste to them and set of the reaction that gives Owen Reece his powers before Victor flees the country returning to Latveria.
Act II:
- Victor sees how bad Latveria has gotten in his absence. His father, now old and sickly rejoices to have him back, Doom assesses the political situation and approaches King Boris with his plans, while also developing his armor and trademark cloak.
- Victor finds potential love with Boris' granddaughter, Valeria
- Victor uses his suit of powered armor to free Latveria from outside interlopers, usurp King Boris' power as the true hero of Latveria and gain possession of his slain mother's belongings.
- Victor explores his mother's magical heritage, including resurrection
- Former king Boris betrays Victor's intel to American authorities
- Victor's father is killed by Boris, Valeria is taken by American authorities
- Victor cedes leadership to the people who are too fearful of Boris and the Americans, Victor is locked into his armor by Reed Richards' tech and left to die in it.
Act III
- Using the magic artifact his mother gave him as a child and the knowledge gained in looking over her things, Victor chants to bring back his mother, who dies for him again to set him free and reboot his armor, because she knows he actually is better than anyone, and he's the only hope the world has to save it from itself.
- Now in full Doom mode, Vic kills Boris brutally, Single handedly decimates the American military invaders with a combination of technology and magic and intelligence and pure gravitas. Overloads Owen Reece's abilities so that he basically pulls himself into a space portal into nowhere. In the end, Sharon bows before Doom. Rescued Valeria sees how merciless he is and recoils from him.
- Doom announces to the people he forgives them, and will still give them a glorious society, but they are now bound to serve Doom for all time. Tells the UN he's beyond them, sits on his throne like a boss.
- After credits, Reed's finally figured out rocket science.
 
Well between the CBM.com comments, IGN comments, Youtube comments, Facebook Group comments etc.... To me the overall consensus feels the same as it is here, meaning....

65% are like: "Just let it go Fox! Revert back to Marvel!",
20% are like: "Blah, blah Logan! Blah, Deadpool!"
15% Don't really care either way.

Good luck generating hype or putting butts in the seats with reactions like that.
 
I mean, that's what caught my interest. I definitely wouldn't be bothering with this toxic community if I wasn't interested in it.

Would people be wrong in presuming that Fan4stic was the pollution causing the toxicity?
 
Particularly with a fringe film like Doom that needs the hardcore fans to show up.

That's the thing that's being lost in the emotion of Hawley's announcement - Who's the audience for this? FF fans have been burned too many times to give FOX another chance and MCU fans will be staying home. Doom has bad BO baggage, villain backstory movies like Dracula Untold and Hannibal Rising have performed quite poorly and I don't see a newbie (though talented) director turning that trend around.

If Doom: Ascending gets made we're probably looking at another FFINO style flop.
 
^Me too

Would people be wrong in presuming that Fan4stic was the pollution causing the toxicity?

Yes. 100% wrong. Bad movies happen all the time. They don't get named movements and us vs them declarations and they don't last for 3+ years. That comes from toxic communities. The fact that someone can consider blaming their behavior towards other human beings on the quality of a film is totally nuts. I miss Lois Lane Fan telling me I "don't get the depth" of BvS. At least there was some self awareness there. At least I didn't have to wonder if I was being dragged on twitter. SMH.
 
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I think we all should step back and take a real look at what it would *actually* take for Fox to give up the FF.

Well Fox is a business, so if nobody goes to see their FF movies eventually it will make no sense for them to carry on making them.
 
MCU Fantastic Four is a means to an end. The end is a good FF film. If Fox is making great FF movies, I have no problem with them continuing to do that. I just don't have faith they would.

MCU Fantastic Four would be more than that. It would be official Fantastic Four. It would be Fantastic Four back where they belong.
 
Yes. 100% wrong. Bad movies happen all the time. They don't get named movements and us vs them declarations and they don't last for 3+ years. That comes from toxic communities. The fact that someone can consider blaming their behavior towards other human beings on the quality of a film is totally nuts..

Yes. 100% wrong. It comes from angry, p-offed fans who have been disillusioned by a studio that have made three terrible FF films. Because of that, many of us doubt this film is just another cynical cash grab and aren't willing to give this film a chance and rightfully so. I mean, a Doctor Doom film? Despite the talent behind it, who would want to watch that?
 
Here's the thing, I don't mind when studios fail with properties I care about, as long as I can see effort and care.
The X-Men movies are hit and miss for me, but I don't overly mind. They usually have a vision behind them, clearly people care about them behind the scenes.

I don't like MOS or BvS, but you know what, I get that Snyder and WB had a vision for them and actual, proper effort was put it. It didn't resonate with me (or many others it seems), but there was effort and a vision.

Fantastic Four 2015 is the antithesis of this. It was made so that rights wouldn't revert. It was made cheaply, purely, for the sole basis of holding onto a property, because it might, at some point in the future, maybe, might be valuable. No one cared about making a good movie. Or portraying beloved characters. Or anything resembling anything that could make me as a fan want the project to go ahead.
If I was a Fox executive looking for a profit, sure I'd be thrilled, but I'm not, I'm a fan.
If Fox kept making bad FF movies but you could see that they were really trying, that would be one thing, but they're not, they're being cynical and greedy.

Tldr : FF 2015 was such a cynical rights grab, they've lost all benefit of doubt.
 
Yup. Our long-standing frustration with Fox is more than reasonable after the way they've mishandled this property, and I will never support anything they do with the FF moving forward.
 
This movie is going to bomb even with a 10 mil budget. What's the target audience for this again?
 
I think Sony's Venom will have a higher chance of succeeding than this Doctor Doom solo movie, and I thought Venom is going to crash and burn even with Tom Hardy in the title role.
 
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Never in the history of film for me has there been a more conflicting project...on one end, you have Fox who has screwed up the F4 films so bad that a dream come true is to have the rights go back to Marvel...however, on the other end, you have my all-time favorite character in ANY medium and that is Dr. Doom...a solo Doom film was always thought impossible for me (well that or Secret Wars adapted)...and even though I know against all odds I shouldn't be cheering this movie at all, but I can't help it...I want a faithful Doom on the screen and this wasn't expected...I expected Fox to announce some crappy version of the F4 again but never a solo Doom movie.

Now if this is to happen, then I want to see essentially the Books of Doom adapted...faithful armored look of Doom (I mean look at Deadpool, spot on), accent, born of Latveria, recreate the kingdom of Latveria, castle, make the town look like 19th century Frankenstein-esque village, an actor with the right presence (now we can try once again for Mads Mikkelsen, my dream actor to play Doom), a brief meeting with Richards during college...

Am I the only one who feels this way on this board or are there other Doom fans sharing this similar dilemma?
 
No you are not. People who are focused on the character and talent have some optimism to contend with the pessmism that comes from yet another Fox FF project. The pure negativity comes from those who feel they have a moral argument why Fox shouldn't have the FF at all.

Well Fox is a business, so if nobody goes to see their FF movies eventually it will make no sense for them to carry on making them.

That's not really true. If they have the potential to make a good FF film that people will see, then it makes no sense NOT to carry on.

Yes. 100% wrong. It comes from angry, p-offed fans who have been disillusioned by a studio that have made three terrible FF films. Because of that, many of us doubt this film is just another cynical cash grab and aren't willing to give this film a chance and rightfully so. I mean, a Doctor Doom film? Despite the talent behind it, who would want to watch that?

Many of us feel the same exact way about Snyder's DCEU. Yet when misslane08 comes in and rails on how we just don't get it, no one attacks her personally, no one frames her as "the enemy," and the focus is on what Snyder did wrong, not how Superman doesn't "rightfully belong" to WB. A toxic community mistreats people instead of dealing with issues, and that cannot be blamed on a movie or a studio. If you use a public forum to trash a person, that is on you and you alone.

As for who would watch a great Dr. Doom film... a LOT of people. Fans of the creator. Fans of the character. People who want to see a supervillain win, people who are tired of typical superhero movies... Doom is one of the greatest villains of all time, one of the greatest fictional characters of all time. It's not hard to get people into him.

This movie is going to bomb even with a 10 mil budget. What's the target audience for this again?

Probably people who would think Dr. Doom is cool if his character was done right. Which is a lot of people because he's an awesome character.
 
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This would be a great idea if it was Marvel Studios putting it out. But Fox has f***ed up with Doom for three movies straight now, with each installment being an even worse interpretation of the character. This won't end well.
 
Marvel Studios would never put out a Doom movie. They've got waaaaay too much going on.

It looks like Fox is handling this the way they handled Deadpool, whom they also screwed up royally. It's not a slam dunk, but they're following a pattern that works, so it's difficult to doomsay (heh) looking at all the things around the project other than the previous FF films.
 
That's not really true. If they have the potential to make a good FF film that people will see, then it makes no sense NOT to carry on.
But if nobody goes to see this one, after Fan4stic was a flop it would become too costly for them to risk making another.
 
There is no way they could muck Doom up worse than that previous version. That was rock bottom.

The problem with this is going to be the demand for it. Most fans want Doom in the MCU. If they were to announce today that this Doom was being set up for the MCU I guarantee there would be a much higher level of excitement for it.

Right now either the majority of people don't want this or just don't care. This is just like Venom all over again. Nobody wants that either. At least the Sony morons are trying to sell it as an MCU attachment even though we know its not.
 
^I think you're mixing up demand with preference. There is a market demand for great superhero movies, atypical superhero movies, content from Noah Hawley and for Dr. Doom done right. Some vocal FF fans also prefer the FF in the MCU, and so they demand it to be so, but that's not the same as market demand, and the market demand that is created doesn't erase the market demand that already exists for this film.

But if nobody goes to see this one, after Fan4stic was a flop it would become too costly for them to risk making another.

Risks are weighed against potential gains, not so much against past losses. A great Fantastic Four movie will make Fox rich and create a huge tentpole for them going forward. As long as that is true, from a corporate America/stockholder perspective, it is too costly to let them go. It'd be just like you having a Goose that lays Golden Eggs and you sell it off cheap because you don't know how to get it to lay eggs. Most likely you'd just keep trying to get it to lay eggs no matter what because the potential of having a Golden Egg supply is so very valuable.
 
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Never in the history of film for me has there been a more conflicting project...on one end, you have Fox who has screwed up the F4 films so bad that a dream come true is to have the rights go back to Marvel...however, on the other end, you have my all-time favorite character in ANY medium and that is Dr. Doom...a solo Doom film was always thought impossible for me (well that or Secret Wars adapted)...and even though I know against all odds I shouldn't be cheering this movie at all, but I can't help it...I want a faithful Doom on the screen and this wasn't expected...I expected Fox to announce some crappy version of the F4 again but never a solo Doom movie.

Now if this is to happen, then I want to see essentially the Books of Doom adapted...faithful armored look of Doom (I mean look at Deadpool, spot on), accent, born of Latveria, recreate the kingdom of Latveria, castle, make the town look like 19th century Frankenstein-esque village, an actor with the right presence (now we can try once again for Mads Mikkelsen, my dream actor to play Doom), a brief meeting with Richards during college...

Am I the only one who feels this way on this board or are there other Doom fans sharing this similar dilemma?

I'm not conflicted because I have close to zero belief that Fox will do what you and I want.

Other than having a talented writer (who has never written a feature film), what's changed? It takes a lot more than a good writer to make the film you and I want to see - starting with a studio that understands what we want and is willing to do what it takes.

Fox doesn't understand us and has never shown any serious interest in giving us what we want.

After 3 complete failures, Fox has to do a LOT more to earn my trust than hiring a decent writer.

I won't completely write them off, but they've made a fool of me too many times in the past for me to even consider supporting them at this point.
 
^I think you're mixing up demand with preference. There is a market demand for great superhero movies, atypical superhero movies, content from Noah Hawley and for Dr. Doom done right. Some vocal FF fans also prefer the FF in the MCU, and so they demand it to be so, but that's not the same as market demand, and the market demand that is created doesn't erase the market demand that already exists for this film.



Risks are weighed against potential gains, not so much against past losses. A great Fantastic Four movie will make Fox rich and create a huge tentpole for them going forward. As long as that is true, from a corporate America/stockholder perspective, it is too costly to let them go. It'd be just like you having a Goose that lays Golden Eggs and you sell it off cheap because you don't know how to get it to lay eggs. Most likely you'd just keep trying to get it to lay eggs no matter what because the potential of having a Golden Egg supply is so very valuable.
You are vastly underestimating the previous endeavors associated with this franchise. How are the FF going to be profitable under the FOX banner moving forward? The fanbase are turning against them with each film. They don't have the goodwill of having successful Raimi films like Spidey1 and 2. Or the promotion, marketing and affiliation of being attached to the wildly successful MCU.

This goose has no golden eggs to lay unless they forge a partnership with Marvel and do a collaboration to benefit one another. The FF are on a deserted island in a world where there are currently 3 massive comic book universes materializing.

The golden eggs being laid are Deadpool/Xverse stuff. Thats the FOX goose.

The FF is a turkey right now.
 
Well between the CBM.com comments, IGN comments, Youtube comments, Facebook Group comments etc.... To me the overall consensus feels the same as it is here, meaning....

65% are like: "Just let it go Fox! Revert back to Marvel!",
20% are like: "Blah, blah Logan! Blah, blah, Deadpool!"
15% Don't really care either way.

Anecdotal evidence. You might as well say Trump has a high approval rating because every comment to a Yahoo News article is a Trump supporter. He fact of the matter is if this has good reviews and good word of mouth no one will give a crap outside of thus very, very small subsection of the internet that Fox produced this instead of Disney.
 
MCU Fantastic Four would be more than that. It would be official Fantastic Four. It would be Fantastic Four back where they belong.

Or it'll be the Fantastic Four on a shelf because Marvel has so many other projects they're working on. That's the only reason I appreciate Fox having the X-Men. We wouldn't be getting a New Mutants movie if Marvel owned the X-Men because they couldn't fit it in.
 

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