Hawley's Doctor Doom Film

[BaronZemo]

There is nothing that indicates that Fox will give him absolute freedom. Fox isn't known to give creative freedom to their cbm directors. Ask Trank or Tim Miller.

Having freedom in a tv show is different than having freedom in a 100 million production. You are making way too many assumptions about Hawley's freedom in a movie. has he even made a movie before?

 

[2kt09]

There is nothing that indicates that Fox will give him absolute freedom. Fox isn't known to give creative freedom to their cbm directors. Ask Trank or Tim Miller.

Quite the contrary. They're not as reactionary as WB nor are they as micro-managing as MS.

No. Look. A lot of those movies are cool and audiences are going and watching them. It’s just as a director it’s harder to have your vision in those, if you go and do a Marvel movie… At some point we were in conversations and... they already figured it out. They’ve figured out the style. They’ve figured out the way they shoot them. They’ve figured out the colors, the humor. What would I do? I enjoy a lot more freedom than that.

-Fede Alvarez

And this is Post-Perlmutter era

 

[1627523]

I agree that Josh tank did not get it, but Tim Miller? I disagree. I think u mean Tim Story right? I think Noah will get creative freedom because that's what they've for the past few years. U don't get Logan or Deadpool by micro-managing directors or having executives be control freaks. It just doesn't work like that. If Fox gives no creative freedom then where's the big cgi blue beams in Deadpool 2? As long as they give him enough to tell a good story than that's all that matters. Plus the fact that the doom ris a spinoff rather than a full on reboot of F4 usually means the movie is cheaper and it gets creative freedom. For example the transformer movies feel like studio mandated messes but the spinoff bumblebee actually looks worth watching since it's not a main film.

 

[Detective Conan]

Quite the contrary. They're not as reactionary as WB nor are they as micro-managing as MS.

lol. How can you say this about the same studio that gave you Fan4stic, Wolverine Origins? & least you forget the recent scuttlebutt about the New Mutants is being heavily reshot because of disagreements between Boone and Fox.

-Fede Alvarez

And this is Post-Perlmutter era

Citing this quote doesn't support your point much. The director in question was ostensibly rumored as far back as 2013 before the split with Perlmutter in 2014. Look at Ryan Coogler who Marvel gave a lot carte blache to, look at Taika Waitki, and of course James Gunn.

 

[Detective Conan]

I understand that Noah Hawley is very talented but the fact is that making a Doctor Doom film is really just a pathetic attempt by Fox to hold on to the only non-X-Men comic book franchise they have left. Its really sad that they feel they can make a good movie about the FF's archenemy before they can make a good movie about The Four themselves. A Doctor Doom solo film is cheaper and likely less expensive than another full-fledged FF film so that's likely why they're making it after Fan4stic crashed and burned.


Its like making a solo Joker film after Batman and Robin(which is funny since there is going to be one anyway).

 

[2kt09]

lol. How can you say this about the same studio that gave you Fan4stic, Wolverine Origins? & least you forget the recent scuttlebutt about the New Mutants is being heavily reshot because of disagreements between Boone and Fox.

Citing this quote doesn't support your point much. The director in question was ostensibly rumored as far back as 2013 before the split with Perlmutter in 2014. Look at Ryan Coogler who Marvel gave a lot carte blache to, look at Taika Waitki, and of course James Gunn.

This Perlmutter excuse sounds similar to Rothman.
From what I remember regarding the scuttlebutt is either they wanted more horror or they wanted more humor. Either sounds like what that teaser was teasing anyways & was pitched since announcement or what Boone specializes in.

I watch the movies. Gunn gets carte blache. We get flourishes of what Waititi and Coogler are known for, but most of those movies still feel more house derivative than the creative freedom I'm used to seeing from post-Rothman era Fox.

 

[Detective Conan]

This Perlmutter excuse sounds similar to Rothman.
From what I remember regarding the scuttlebutt is either they wanted more horror or they wanted more humor. Either sounds like what that teaser was teasing anyways & was pitched since announcement or what Boone specializes in.

I watch the movies. Gunn gets carte blache. We get flourishes of what Waititi and Coogler are known for, but most of those movies still feel more house derivative than the creative freedom I'm used to seeing from post-Rothman era Fox.

Agree to disagree. In regards to the New Mutants in particular: The differences I’m hearing seems to extend to Fox not being pleased with Boone’s direction in general, and wanting heavy reshoots — there’s been legit creative disagreements. They’ve delayed the movie two times now. Not a good sign. I think you’re overstating the creative freedom Fox has given. Even in the post-Rothman era movies like Fan4stic still came out where it was not heavily micro-managed & tinkered with.

 

[2kt09]

Agree to disagree. In regards to the New Mutants in particular: The differences I’m hearing seems to extend to Fox not being pleased with Boone’s direction in general, and wanting heavy reshoots — there’s been legit creative disagreements. They’ve delayed the movie two times now. Not a good sign. I think you’re overstating the creative freedom Fox has given. Even in the post-Rothman era movies like Fan4stic still came out where it was not heavily micro-managed & tinkered with.

The Fant4stic I heard and read about is as juicy as the bts drama as it can get. New Mutants far and away less so. I await the Trank / Wright / Snyder-like news. "Movies like" is the overstatement as it was apparently a remnant of something Rothman pushed and everyone else went along until they realized only the deadline mattered.

After First Class, it was one widely different feeling cbm after another, including Kingsman, and then they finally got to do tv, and yet again they managed to do 2 widely distinct shows.

My mindset with Doom is simple. It simply wouldn't exist if Hawley didn't pitch it. That's another significant and recurring difference in creative freedom.

 

[Detective Conan]

The Fant4stic I heard and read about is as juicy as the bts drama as it can get. New Mutants far and away less so. I await the Trank / Wright / Snyder-like news. "Movies like" is the overstatement as it was apparently a remnant of something Rothman pushed and everyone else went along until they realized only the deadline mattered.

After First Class, it was one widely different feeling cbm after another, including Kingsman, and then they finally got to do tv, and yet again they managed to do 2 widely distinct shows.

My mindset with Doom is simple. It simply wouldn't exist if Hawley didn't pitch it. That's another significant and recurring difference in creative freedom.

Again agree to disagree. When you have a movie delayed two times(not even Fan4stic got delayed two times) along with the rumors with creative differences surfacing between Boone and Fox so that’s not something to brush over — that signals the movie is due for a significant overhaul dictated by the studio.

Yes, Fan4stic may have been greenlight under the Rothman regime but it was produced post-Rothman with a completely different head. You’re really overrating how much Fox gives creative control gives to their filmmakers in comparison to other studios.

And television and movies are different beasts.

 

[Kuwolski]

You get the sense that this is a bit of a power play on Hawley's part (which Fox needs to embrace being business as usual before the potential purchase). He's getting the word out and and attempting to build anticipation for this while almost daring Marvel to cancel it if the Fox deal is completed (He knows whats on the horizon). I would like to see it (big fan of Hawley) but they better not count on PR or fan excitement keeping this thing alive. The sooner they start production the better chance it has. Otherwise it'll likely be scrapped and the people who don't like the MCU (yet still watch the movies apparently) will have to put up with an MCU Doom. I'm thinking about those poor souls with this post...he he

 

[Silvermoth]

I’m very keen on a doctor doom movie because I think he’s too big to be introduced in an ff movie or even avengers. He tends to slow down the plot when you’re introducing how the ff got their powers and also how doom got them (unless he got them at the same time which I don’t exactly love)

That said though the analogy of a skin skywalker deflating darth Vader is an intriguing one. Has their been a good villain piece in movies yet? Even like a doco on Stalin or hitler? They could do it in that Stalin, how someone that twisted grew to be

 

[BaronZemo]

Quite the contrary. They're not as reactionary as WB nor are they as micro-managing as MS.


-Fede Alvarez

And this is Post-Perlmutter era

Quite the contrary. They have plenty of history with interfering during and AFTER the Rothman era. Look at New Mutants, Tim Miller exiting over creative diffeences or Trank. All those after Rothman was one. Also Rattner was given so many mandates during X3 and so did Gavin Hood during X-men Origins.

And calling MS micro-managing is actually invalid because after Pelmutter there isn;t not even a beep about creative differences in over 4 years. The quote you posted really proves you haven;t done your research. Alvarez was approached before Derrickson in late 2013/ early 2014. Pelmutter was outed from MS in September 2015. Meanwhile both WB and Fox have from time to time clashes with directors. So if you want to be precise Marvel seems to have by fa the healthiest collaborations for the past 4 YEARS!

You really should put more effort in your research.

 

[wampa1]

No-one thinks this is actually going to get made do they?

 

[Flint Marko]

The Fant4stic I heard and read about is as juicy as the bts drama as it can get. New Mutants far and away less so. I await the Trank / Wright / Snyder-like news. "Movies like" is the overstatement as it was apparently a remnant of something Rothman pushed and everyone else went along until they realized only the deadline mattered.

After First Class, it was one widely different feeling cbm after another, including Kingsman, and then they finally got to do tv, and yet again they managed to do 2 widely distinct shows.

My mindset with Doom is simple. It simply wouldn't exist if Hawley didn't pitch it. That's another significant and recurring difference in creative freedom.

The mental gymnastics you have to pull to paint Fox as a bastion of creative freedom is borderline impressive.

New Mutants and Deadpool 2 are two recent examples of behind the scenes disquiet that clearly refute what you’re trying to claim. I wouldn’t even be surprised if Dark Phoenix winds up being yet another wonderful example of studio mismanagement and interference from the illustrious studio that brought us FFINO.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Quite the contrary. They have plenty of history with interfering during and AFTER the Rothman era. Look at New Mutants, Tim Miller exiting over creative diffeences or Trank. All those after Rothman was one. Also Rattner was given so many mandates during X3 and so did Gavin Hood during X-men Origins.

Well, Tim Miller clearly wasn't too fussed, as he signed on to direct the Bendis written Kitty Pryde film. Seems like his issue was more with Ryan Reynolds than the studio.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Does anyone remember (and ideally have a link to) the interview with the writer who was working on an FF script and when he met with Fox executives they were asking questions like "why do they have to have costumes?"

That article gave an interesting insight into how Fox does things, but I did a quick search and couldn't find it.

 

[1627523]

Quite the contrary. They have plenty of history with interfering during and AFTER the Rothman era. Look at New Mutants, Tim Miller exiting over creative diffeences or Trank. All those after Rothman was one. Also Rattner was given so many mandates during X3 and so did Gavin Hood during X-men Origins.

And calling MS micro-managing is actually invalid because after Pelmutter there isn;t not even a beep about creative differences in over 4 years. The quote you posted really proves you haven;t done your research. Alvarez was approached before Derrickson in late 2013/ early 2014. Pelmutter was outed from MS in September 2015. Meanwhile both WB and Fox have from time to time clashes with directors. So if you want to be precise Marvel seems to have by fa the healthiest collaborations for the past 4 YEARS!

You really should put more effort in your research.

Tim Miller doesn't count, he left because of Ryan Ryenolds not because of FOX. I really doubt they would want to get in his way. Doesn't he have kitty pryde film in development also?

 

[Zarex]

I’m very keen on a doctor doom movie because I think he’s too big to be introduced in an ff movie or even avengers. He tends to slow down the plot when you’re introducing how the ff got their powers and also how doom got them (unless he got them at the same time which I don’t exactly love)

Unlike the Fox cinematic versions, comic book Victor Von Doom doesn't have super powers.

 

[2kt09]

Again agree to disagree. When you have a movie delayed two times(not even Fan4stic got delayed two times) along with the rumors with creative differences surfacing between Boone and Fox so that’s not something to brush over — that signals the movie is due for a significant overhaul dictated by the studio.

Yes, Fan4stic may have been greenlight under the Rothman regime but it was produced post-Rothman with a completely different head. You’re really overrating how much Fox gives creative control gives to their filmmakers in comparison to other studios.

And television and movies are different beasts.

The director is still the same. Gimme a rundown of the rumors you've heard.
Spoiler tag it since not really related to this.
Fant4stic is the kind of movie that should have been delayed given all the drama that went down, but we all know they couldn't postpone it.

The movies live or die by the filmmakers or in certain cases the actor who also happens to be the producer (what I meant by Doom not existing without Hawley), not as Fede Alvarez puts it and his account is still something I notice well into phase 3.

Television and movies would be different beasts if the same producers, unlike other studios, weren't also behind the shows.

 

[BaronZemo]

Tim Miller doesn't count, he left because of Ryan Ryenolds not because of FOX. I really doubt they would want to get in his way. Doesn't he have kitty pryde film in development also?

He definitely counts since he left because of creative differences and that's what we are discussing. How micro-managing Fox really is compared to Marvel who has no record on restricting directors over the past years. There is no confirmation btw that it was because of Reynolds. Many sources said it's because of the budget. Who knows? We know he left over "creative differences". The rest are conjectures.

not as Fede Alvarez puts it and his account is still something I notice well into phase 3.

I notice nothing but a healthy enviroment and creative freedom in Phase 3. And so do most fans and critics. Why do you keep bringing Alvarez into this? He talked with Marvel during Phase 2. He is not credilbe for current Marvel. It's amazing how some of you are really slow on keeping up to date with how things operate right now.

Facts remina that both Fox and WB have way more recent clashes with film makers than Marvel. You can't deny that.

 

[2kt09]

I notice nothing but a healthy environment and creative freedom in Phase 3. And so do most fans and critics. Why do you keep bringing Alvarez into this? He talked with Marvel during Phase 2. He is not credibe for current Marvel. It's amazing how some of you are really slow on keeping up to date with how things operate right now.

Because Alvarez was the most frank. Everyone else who's parted ways kept it so tight lipped.

The biggest difference I notice in phase 3 is that the MCU is willing to poke fun of its own tropes in this discussion of creative freedom. That suddenly doesn't make Dr Strange have this unnecessary sense of humor with a familiar plot, that suddenly doesn't make Homecoming obviously written by a committee, that suddenly doesn't make Ragnarok feel less like they wanted another GOTG, and that suddenly doesn't make BP packed to the brim with all these tropes yet none of his trademark action direction.

A Hawley Doom movie under FOX would be far and away different from that.

 

[Aurakles]

Fox certainly has a history in meddling in their CBMs, I would never try to paint them as a bastion of creative freedom, I just think Hawley may get a pass.
Unlike Trank, Hawley is the showrunner of two Fox tv series, Fox wants a Fargo S4 and they have renewed Legion for S3. This gives Hawley some bargaining power that other directors didn't have.
He's also going to be directing his first film "Pale Blue Dot" for Fox before moving onto Doom, if that's successful, he'll have yet more leverage.

Now there is a very real possibility that the Disney deal will stop this film in its tracks, or Pale Blue Dot could be a flop and Fox might lose confidence in Hawley.
But failing those eventualities, I think Hawley will get a lot of freedom, and produce a great (though likely controversial) Doom movie.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

is there really any point in talking about Hawley making a film for Fox as if that's a possibility? Either Disney or Comcast will be buying Fox soon, before a Hawley film would even be started, so if he makes a Doom film, he'll be making it for Disney or Comcast.

Some Fox management might be retained, but the overall management structure would be so shaken up that trying to predict that management's style (hands on or hands off) seems impossible to even guess.

Realistically, the most likely way this will shake out is that 10-15 years from now, we'll be saying: "Hey, remember that one time there was talk about Noah Hawley making a Dr. Doom film?"

Similar to how we can say: "Hey, remember that one time there was talk about Raja Gosnell / Peter Segal / Peyton Reed making a Fantastic Four film?"

 

[Big Bang]

is there really any point in talking about Hawley making a film for Fox as if that's a possibility?

Nope. I think Bob Iger has already made it crystal clear, that the Marvel properties under Fox will be moved under Marvel Studios. Fox won't be have them anymore, and any chances Comcast had are getting slimmer by the moment.

At the speed this deal is moving, there is a real chance this could close by the Fall, with Winter this year possibly being the latest.

 

[Aurakles]

There is still doubt over who will buy Fox, if it will be approved and when it will happen.

Most likely, Disney will buy Fox, and it will be approved, and it'll be completed within 3 years. I think that will happen, but there's doubt.

In the mean time, Fox will keep making films, and they'll continue to exploit the properties they have rights to.

Question is whether the process takes long enough for Doom to get so far into production that it'd cost too much to stop.

If I were to bet, I'd say the Hawley Doom film won't happen. But I still think there's maybe a 20% chance it gets made. Unlikely, but far from impossible.