Highlander!

[herakles]

With Highlander 1 immortals like the Kurgan - Nothing. You ask them not to kill you very nicely. That's all you can do. I mean, damnit, Clancy Brown destroyed castles and houses just by clumsy dueling.

However, Highlander - the series immortals are pretty easy to kill. Bullets didn't even slow The Kurgan down, but in the series any chump can shoot them, knock them out and then cut their head off, since they're normal humans - except the ressurrection thing.

Not only does the Kurgan shrug off bullets but Connor in the WWII flashback get shot and didn't die and what about him getting repeatedly run through in the duel sequence! Also if you remember Connor was able to breath water.

I think Immortals in the H1-3 are so much more powerful than the ones in the tv series. For one Duncan was found drowned on the shoares of Japan when he got his Kantana! Immortals starved to death aswell.

 

[wiegeabo]

Didn't Conner and Ramirez get shot to death in Highlander 2? The broke into the facility in a car that was blasted from all directions with gunfire. Then they wake up in the morgue and start bragging how many rounds they took.

 

[WeaponZ2]

Not only does the Kurgan shrug off bullets but Connor in the WWII flashback get shot and didn't die and what about him getting repeatedly run through in the duel sequence! Also if you remember Connor was able to breath water.

I think Immortals in the H1-3 are so much more powerful than the ones in the tv series. For one Duncan was found drowned on the shoares of Japan when he got his Kantana! Immortals starved to death aswell.

You know I always thought that Connor in WW2 would be a great movie all in its self. Fight a Nazi captain who was a immortal from Rome or Egypt, something like that.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Didn't Conner and Ramirez get shot to death in Highlander 2? The broke into the facility in a car that was blasted from all directions with gunfire. Then they wake up in the morgue and start bragging how many rounds they took.

Yep, they "died" in the second movie. In the first movie, though, they didn't even have temporary deaths. They'd just take all the punishment thrown at them and never stop.

 

[GyLocke]

However the second movie makes my eyes bleed as it is.

As for the Connor in WW2 - it is promised he will fight The Kurgan there in the comics.

Also, in issue 0 the Kurgan has some really creepy mortal acolytes who try to ger revenge on Conner, by

Spoiler

doing something to the reactor in chernobil. Since Kurgan's power is in Connor now, the acolytes can feel when he's around, and one of them says: "I can here the masters soul in you, singing a song of fire and death."

Also, Brenda is blonde for some reason.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Haha, I liked that.

Spoiler

The Kurgan's followers caused the Chernobyl disaster.

Even when he's dead, the Kurgan is a bastard.

 

[The Question]

Really? Cool. Although I don't see how that's getting back at Connor.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Even though Connor prefers to stay out of the Game, he's still got some regard for innocent human life. I doubt he'd let the Kurgan's followers destroy lives like that without caring.

 

[The Question]

True. I'd just think that their revenge would be more personal than that.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

It seems they've got more planned. I have a feeling that'll be the first major arc of the series, actually: Connor trying to get to the bottom of what the Kurgan's followers are planning.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Here's a question: if an immortal takes another immortal's head on the latter's first death, would there be a Quickening? Technically the second immortal would still have been mortal.

 

[wiegeabo]

Immortals can sense the 'amount' of quickening other immortals have. (To put it another way, how long they've lived.) They'd likely just kill them normally, then take their head when they returned, or let them go to earn a quickening worth taking (which I think happened a couple of times in the series).

 

[wobbly]

Here's a question: if an immortal takes another immortal's head on the latter's first death, would there be a Quickening? Technically the second immortal would still have been mortal.

Not sure. Kurgen seemed to want to finish off Conner in the first movie though before he was 'reborn' so maybe that was possible (or maybe Kurgen just wanted to off a potential future rival, I really dont know to be honest).

Speaking on the first movie...thats where they should have left it. They finished the story there and then, Conner was the only one left, no need to make any more and no way to do it in any manner that makes sence (as evidenced by everything that has followed since).

 

[wiegeabo]

The way Highlander 3 was able to continue did make sense. All Immortals were dead, which means Conner gets the prize. But a few Immortals were not dead because they were beheaded, but because they were burried. So once they came back to life, the Game started anew, Conner became Immortal again because the Gathering had restarted, and they had to fight for the Prize (which would now include the knowledge from the 'dead' immortals).

 

[WeaponZ2]

The way Highlander 3 was able to continue did make sense. All Immortals were dead, which means Conner gets the prize. But a few Immortals were not dead because they were beheaded, but because they were burried. So once they came back to life, the Game started anew, Conner became Immortal again because the Gathering had restarted, and they had to fight for the Prize (which would now include the knowledge from the 'dead' immortals).

Thats not how I recall it at all (its been awhile). I thought Connor and Brenda were driving in Scottland when they got into an accedent. Brenda was killed, but Connor walked away unscaved. He then came to the realiztion that the game had not ended.
(We don't see any of this, but its menchend by a police officer ((Garfield?)) he says something like "Brenda and Nash were got in accedent in the scottish highlands. They have to scrape her body off the road but he walks away without a scratch." )

 

[wiegeabo]

He could have survived because of the Prize. Because when the evil Immortals are freed from their tomb, energy ripples in the sky above Conner as he and his son are riding. And he looks up and 'realizes' that the Game is back. (Probably because he felt the pull of the Gathering again.)

 

[The Question]

But the prize took away his immortality.

 

[WeaponZ2]

But the prize took away his immortality.

What he said....

 

[wiegeabo]

Which leaves us with the Paradox. He got the Prize in the first movie because he could hear the thoughts of everyone in the world, lost his immortality, could have children, and everything. Yet, in the third movie, he probably shouldn't have survived the accident without a scratch since he was supposed to be mortal again.

So, Conner surviving the car accident was either a very lucky thing, or bad writing. And judging by a good bit of the third movie, I'd think it was the second option.

 

[GyLocke]

Actually: in the end of the first movie, is not that clear that he's mortal, as it seems. He got some vaugely defined awsome power, gathered all the Immortal "souls" (his conversation with Ramirez) and the ability to have children, and they can live together in piece. He didn't say he is mortal now. Maybe he hoped he is, but how could he know, he can't "test it".
Even Ramirez says in the end, how big his power is now, and he has to use it well to help mankind. It wouldn't make much sense, if he could only wield that power for a few decades.

In the sequels the prize changed to become mortal, but that doesn't makes sense, why would Kurgan and his kind want to become one?

I guess the Prize depends on who gets it.

 

[wobbly]

The way Highlander 3 was able to continue did make sense. All Immortals were dead, which means Conner gets the prize. But a few Immortals were not dead because they were beheaded, but because they were burried. So once they came back to life, the Game started anew, Conner became Immortal again because the Gathering had restarted, and they had to fight for the Prize (which would now include the knowledge from the 'dead' immortals).

Those other immortals were buried and not dead at all, so Conner should not have won the prize when he killed Kurgen or even have been fooled in any way into thinking he had (would have been just another quickening). The baddie in the 3rd film even taunts Conner telling him he only thought that he had won the prize, could have kids and so on (the boy we see in the film is adopted).
Still, though the 3rd still doesn't work well for me, it was a vastly better attempt than than Highlander II (what were they smoking?)

Actually: in the end of the first movie, is not that clear that he's mortal, as it seems. He got some vaugely defined awsome power, gathered all the Immortal "souls" (his conversation with Ramirez) and the ability to have children, and they can live together in piece. He didn't say he is mortal now. Maybe he hoped he is, but how could he know, he can't "test it".
Even Ramirez says in the end, how big his power is now, and he has to use it well to help mankind. It wouldn't make much sense, if he could only wield that power for a few decades.

In the sequels the prize changed to become mortal, but that doesn't makes sense, why would Kurgan and his kind want to become one?

I guess the Prize depends on who gets it.

That was what I really liked about the end of the first film. None of the immortals knew what the prize was (Ramirez even said this I think) but they were all gonna fight to the death to win it and in the end it had something Kurgen certainly wouldn't have liked (mortality!!), however it would have giving him a chance to spread his evil across the world potentially even destroying it (hence Ramirez's warning to Conner on the 'darkness' the likes of Kurgen could bring to the world if he won the prize).

As regards the mortality issue, I certainly did regard him as having become mortal and his saying he could now have children (not something he would be mistaken about given the new knowledge he had won) I felt was a reference that this power could possibly continue in his progeny, going on to help man-kind after he his mortal life was over.

 

[GyLocke]

Maybe there was no reason for the Immortals to fight each other at all, but a funny guy in Macedonia started to spread the "There can be only one" rumor just for the hell of it.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That'd be funny, but it wouldn't work with the TV series. Methos has been alive for over 5,000 years, well before Macedonia's time, and he's known "there can be only one" the whole way. I actually kind of like it that way. It's a nice irony, that people who have literally the entire future ahead of them have lost the secrets of who they are and why they fight to the past.

Anyway, I've just watched Highlander I and II again. Highlander I was better than I remembered and II was much, much worse. Even the Renegade version sucks because it just changes Zeist into some super-advanced civilization in the distant past. All it does is change the immortals from aliens to time travelers, which isn't much better.

All in all, I'm much happier with the way the current people behind Highlander seem to be taking it: that Highlander I is the only movie that counts, with the substitution of a normal Quickening after the Kurgan's death instead of the Prize. The weirdness of it could easily be explained by the fact that every Quickening is different and the Kurgan was repeatedly referred to as the strongest of the immortals. If you really wanted to push things, you could say that Connor was mistaken about winning the Prize, and that the voices he heard were actually those of the Kurgan's many, many victims echoing in his head after such an intense Quickening or something.

Also, regarding some earlier comments I made about Connor wanting to protect humanity, but just less than Duncan: I was wrong. Connor, throughout the entire first movie, seems to have a simmering disgust for humanity in general. The only way that I can guess his helping people in the comic series will make sense is that after defeating the Kurgan, as weig and others said, he felt more at peace because he'd settled his lifelong rivalry with the Kurgan, which made him get over Ramirez's death and Heather's rape, which made him a lot less angry and cynical about everything. Falling in love with Brenda probably helped a lot, too.

 

[GyLocke]

I didn't feel his disgust with Humanity. Yes, he was bitter and he had problems with the authority figures all his life.

But he went to fight in WW2, took in a little girl and raised her, fell in love wih a mortal, etc. I don't see what you're talking about.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

He has a soft spot for individuals, but as a whole he's not motivated by compassion for mortals like Duncan was in the series. The Kurgan goes around killing people left and right, which I'm sure Connor must've heard about in the news, but Connor only actively opposes the Kurgan when Brenda's life becomes endangered, despite the fact that he knows the Kurgan's only killing people for fun while he waits for Connor to fight him.