Guardians of the Galaxy Hold up JJ, is Guardians of the Galaxy, "Star Wars for the 21st century?"

[Nokio]

Agreed. There's almost no way for a Sci-Fi/CB movie to make as much cultural impact as Star Wars did because they all chasing that same blockbuster feel that SW helped start. Plus, the market is so crowded with these types of movies and other franchises that any impact on the larger pop culture is minute.

You're right. SW came out at a time when nothing else had been seen like it, so it made such a cultural impact. GOTG while enjoyable and well made isn't going to make a impact like that. Not trying to be mean but it'll be forgotten in 6 months.

 

[Batmannerism]

I think it depends on what people mean by "Star Wars for the 21st century". Will it be as much financially sucessful or culturally relevant? Nope. But quality-wise? It's debatable, but I'd say so. For my money, GOTG is better than 5 of the 6 Star Wars movies. I would even be hard-pressed choosing between GOTG and Empire Strikes Back, as I believe both have advantages on each other.

I also think it's fair to compare them, because, let's be honest, when was the last time such a fun and remarkable non-sequel space opera has hit the big screen? It may operate in another level in terms of popularity and cultural impact, but it brought back the spotlight on space operas in a way no other movie could in a long time. Also, if we measure popularity and cultural impact of the MCU as a whole, it does get much nearer to Star Wars.

Yayyyy ! At last somebody got the point. I never said GOTG would be as culturally relevant as SW ! And I sure as hell wasn't interested in box office receipts. It was all about the vibe of film, just like you say

when was the last time such a fun and remarkable non-sequel space opera has hit the big screen?[/

Exactly, that's my point. Does GOTG have the vibe that SW:ANH had that made it so much fun. Some say they're tonally different, but I'm not so sure (well maybe from the sequels, especially the crappy prequels).

In fact, while I'm thinking about it, the first view we get of Starlord has a bit of an Indiana Jones vibe too. It's like Lucas had a kind of magic back then and somehow he lost it.

What I find weird is when people bring in Harry Potter /Star Wars comparisons, because this is definitely a discussion about Space Opera.
LOTR and Star Wars I can sort of see, due to the plot and fantasy elements that are common to both, but Harry Potter ?

Not that I disrespect people's opinions, but it's kind of like comparing
apples and ...you know.

Peace !

 

[baerrtt]

Yayyyy ! At last somebody got the point. I never said GOTG would be as culturally relevant as SW ! And I sure as hell wasn't interested in box office receipts. It was all about the vibe of film, just like you say



Exactly, that's my point. Does GOTG have the vibe that SW:ANH had that made it so much fun. Some say they're tonally different, but I'm not so sure (well maybe from the sequels, especially the crappy prequels).

In fact, while I'm thinking about it, the first view we get of Starlord has a bit of an Indiana Jones vibe too. It's like Lucas had a kind of magic back then and somehow he lost it.

What I find weird is when people bring in Harry Potter /Star Wars comparisons, because this is definitely a discussion about Space Opera.
LOTR and Star Wars I can sort of see, due to the plot and fantasy elements that are common to both, but Harry Potter ?

Not that I disrespect people's opinions, but it's kind of like comparing
apples and ...you know.

Peace !

There's probably more self aware comedy in GOTG than in any SW film to date so beyond the space opera setting it doesn't give me a similar vibe especially as SW was enjoyed by people who viewed it in earnest.

If anything GOTG, as mentioned by some critics and filmgoers, feels like STAR WARS...as done by Joe Dante or Ivan Reitman in their 80s incarnations not to mention it has more of the spirit of pictures such as BIG TROUBLE IN LITTLE CHINA or BUCKAROO BANZAI. If anything it reminds me of the more comedic genre WTF blockbusters (or blockbuster wannabes like those forementioned two were at the time) the 80s did so well.

 

[CK Spider]

It IS much more comedic than Star Wars, but I'd still say I get a similar from them in many aspects. And let's not forget how lighthearted Star Wars actually is (Empire less so, but it still isn't anything near what I'd call a depressing movie). And about GOTG, as funny as it is, I still get the sense of wonder of a "legitimate" space opera.

It's not an identical vibe, but it evokes the original trilogy like nothing nothing else. Not that I think it feels like "pure" Star Wars. I'd say it's more of a magical baby of Star Wars, Firefly and Avengers, if that makes any sense. LOL

 

[Webfoot Hero]

It IS much more comedic than Star Wars, but I'd still say I get a similar from them in many aspects. And let's not forget how lighthearted Star Wars actually is (Empire less so, but it still isn't anything near what I'd call a depressing movie). And about GOTG, as funny as it is, I still get the sense of wonder of a "legitimate" space opera.

It's not an identical vibe, but it evokes the original trilogy like nothing nothing else. Not that I think it feels like "pure" Star Wars. I'd say it's more of a magical baby of Star Wars, Firefly and Avengers, if that makes any sense. LOL

I'd say that it comes the closest of any space-set movie to invoke some actual Star Wars feeling. About the only things it doesn't have that Star Wars did are a lot of actual space battles, a villain with a better backstory, and a sense of impending doom.

 

[Heretic]

Yayyyy ! At last somebody got the point. I never said GOTG would be as culturally relevant as SW ! And I sure as hell wasn't interested in box office receipts. It was all about the vibe of film, just like you say

I felt like the vibe was kind of almost Flash Gordon (a movie that I prefer over any film with "Star" in its title). It adapted some archetypes from Star Wars (Han and Chewy, Boba Fett) but the movie didn't feel like a Star Wars film. Not only the feel, but part of what made Flash great was how they went around introducing these instantly iconic places and characters. Star Wars, for me anyway, was not as focused on that in the films themselves, even though certainly they did create characters that have stood the test of time. So, if you aren't talking box office or relevancy, then this STILL isn't the new Star Wars. It's kind of part Star Wars, part Flash Gordon, part Firefly, part stuff I probably haven't seen. It ends up being the first Guardians of the Galaxy, so no...it is not the new Star Wars.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The comedy/music from GotG was filled with current pop culture references. The drama lacked the magic and operatic themes of the classic Star Wars films.

It was closer to something like Farscape than it was to Star Wars.

 

[Batmannerism]

I felt like the vibe was kind of almost Flash Gordon (a movie that I prefer over any film with "Star" in its title). It adapted some archetypes from Star Wars (Han and Chewy, Boba Fett) but the movie didn't feel like a Star Wars film. Not only the feel, but part of what made Flash great was how they went around introducing these instantly iconic places and characters. Star Wars, for me anyway, was not as focused on that in the films themselves, even though certainly they did create characters that have stood the test of time. So, if you aren't talking box office or relevancy, then this STILL isn't the new Star Wars. It's kind of part Star Wars, part Flash Gordon, part Firefly, part stuff I probably haven't seen. It ends up being the first Guardians of the Galaxy, so no...it is not the new Star Wars.

The comparison with Flash Gordon is a fair one, although it was nowhere near as campy as the 80's flick, and a fair bit darker. For myself I think the comparison with Firefly is closer, but then when I saw Serenity, which was out in the same year as REveng of the Sith, I thought to myself
"Whoa ! this is more Star wars than.....current Star Wars." Just on the vibe.
I think Firefly captured a certain amount of the Star Wars vibe, and GOTG is following on from there.

Extremely glad you didn't bring cultural relevance or box office into it,
it might not be the new star wars......but man I still think it's the closest thing we've had to the vibe of SW ANH since then (or at least hopefully until the Abrams films come out).

 

[Mjölnir]

I really liked the movie but I can't say that there's anything groundbreaking or that special about it.

The special thing from Marvel was making movies of solo heroes and then combining them into an ensemble movie and establishing a coherent movie universe. That's what Marvel has brought to the playing field.

 

[Lord]

Star Wars was more adventurous and felt more organic, visualy it was also much more interesting and less nauseating. I'm talking about the Prequels of course, though i still disagree that Guardians felt more like the originals than the Prequels did.

Avatar was the closest to what i could see a modern Star Wars Ep IV being, and not just regarding the box office take. Guardians was like what? Flight of the Navigator? Farscape? Another fun science fiction adventure film full of humans in alien make-up.

 

[Batmannerism]

Star Wars was more adventurous and felt more organic, visualy it was also much more interesting and less nauseating. I'm talking about the Prequels of course, though i still disagree that Guardians felt more like the originals than the Prequels did.

Avatar was the closest to what i could see a modern Star Wars Ep IV being, and not just regarding the box office take. Guardians was like what? Flight of the Navigator? Farscape? Another fun science fiction adventure film full of humans in alien make-up.

Not disrespecting your opinion, but disagreeing on the Avatar comparison.

I find Avatar a tough comparison with Star Wars, probably because while Avatar is visually stunning and has impressive action scenes, it's basically dances with Wolves (or Pocahontas) in outer space. Star Wars is the classic hero's journey, which is a little bit of what we get with Peter Quill and his rag tag band.

For myself I thought GOTG captured that kind of adventurous fun that Star Wars had. Of course that's an imperfect comparison too.

Just on your Prequels comment, are you saying that GOTG was more nauseating than the Prequels ? If you are, again I respect your opinion, but personally I found Attack of the Clones one of the most vomit-inducing films ever, right from the stupid title, to the awful acting to the dreadful "Sound of Music" scene, ugh ! True, it was partially redeemed by a pretty exciting final action set piece, but otherwise an awful film IMO.

Empire strikes Back has several million times the emotional resonance that Avatar does ( and a lot more than GOTG too, but then it's almost a different kind of film).

This is just my opinion, but I see GOTG as far more akin to SW ANH than Avatar. But that's just IMO.

 

[Lord]

Not disrespecting your opinion, but disagreeing on the Avatar comparison.

I find Avatar a tough comparison with Star Wars, probably because while Avatar is visually stunning and has impressive action scenes, it's basically dances with Wolves (or Pocahontas) in outer space. Star Wars is the classic hero's journey, which is a little bit of what we get with Peter Quill and his rag tag band.

That's exactly why i find them so much alike, they both take old story troupes and do their oun thing, Star Wars ripped even more than Avatar, difference is that now we are more sensible to that, you can't do it like in the 60s and 70s when Kurosawa would be ripped off left and right, and it's not as if the hero journey from Dances with Wolves was new either.

Just on your Prequels comment, are you saying that GOTG was more nauseating than the Prequels ? If you are, again I respect your opinion, but personally I found Attack of the Clones one of the most vomit-inducing films ever, right from the stupid title, to the awful acting to the dreadful "Sound of Music" scene, ugh ! True, it was partially redeemed by a pretty exciting final action set piece, but otherwise an awful film IMO.

I did actualy, not saying the Prequels were better by any stretch, but i think Guardians abused the effects and CGI much more, the explosions and action just keeps on going and going. I'm glad so many had fun with it, but i was kinda boring by the middle of all the action that was going on.

Empire strikes Back has several million times the emotional resonance that Avatar does ( and a lot more than GOTG too, but then it's almost a different kind of film).

This is just my opinion, but I see GOTG as far more akin to SW ANH than Avatar. But that's just IMO.

It depends, i've seen friends that found the SW classics boring because they weren't exactly sure what the plot was, i know it sounds a weird thing to say considering that they're the quintessential films from which every blockbuster is measured with, but i do see some old fans saying that as kids they were atracted due to the effects and world and didn't completely understand the plot. Avatar spoke with a lot of people, for better or for worse since some even killed themselves due to Pandora not being real, i'm not all that big of a fan of the film, but it was far from having low emotional resonance.

Empire Strikes Back resonates when you fully understand the films and are a fan of the universe, though even then, there were many other films that pulled more with my emotional strings. But look at Empire in Contest, it was the second in a Trilogy, people had already watched the first film multiple times, Avatar on the other hand is a single movie, the sequel hasn't even come out yet, compare Star Wars 1977 and Avatar together, then take into account the times they came out in and they're almost parallels to each.

Star Wars is more expansive, there's no denying that though.

But on the whole i think Avatar was the closest to what Star Wars would have been like if it came out today:

1-Recognisable plots and stories that can be viewed and liked by any culture.
2-State of the art technology that inspires other films into trying to do similar things
3-Success everywhere it's released
4-Old story, new situation
5-Sence of wonder at the experience and state of the art special effects.

It also helps that Avatar didn't entirely feel like a "sausage fest", as the female character was one of the best part in there, unlike with Guardians, where the only female character is the target of various sexist quips from the surrounding cast.

 

[Batmannerism]

I did actualy, not saying the Prequels were better by any stretch,

Whew !

It depends, i've seen friends that found the SW classics boring because they weren't exactly sure what the plot was, i know it sounds a weird thing to say considering that they're the quintessential films from which every blockbuster is measured with, but i do see some old fans saying that as kids they were atracted due to the effects and world and didn't completely understand the plot. Avatar spoke with a lot of people, for better or for worse since some even killed themselves due to Pandora not being real, i'm not all that big of a fan of the film, but it was far from having low emotional resonance.

Empire Strikes Back resonates when you fully understand the films and are a fan of the universe, though even then, there were many other films that pulled more with my emotional strings. But look at Empire in Contest, it was the second in a Trilogy, people had already watched the first film multiple times, Avatar on the other hand is a single movie, the sequel hasn't even come out yet, compare Star Wars 1977 and Avatar together, then take into account the times they came out in and they're almost parallels to each.

I agree that you kind of need to know the characters first, to really get Empire. But when you do, and you hear those words "No....I am your father." that's one of the biggest twists in movies. Nobody saw that coming.
I remember seeing Empire as a kid and thinking "Wow, there's only a few minutes left in the movie. How's Luke going to defeat Vader (with only one hand) save Han, and escape ?" and of course, he doesn't. The good guys LOSE, now as a kid that was the biggest mind-blast ever. Of course, you're right that Empire can only do this because it's a sequel.

But on the whole i think Avatar was the closest to what Star Wars would have been like if it came out today:

1-Recognisable plots and stories that can be viewed and liked by any culture.
2-State of the art technology that inspires other films into trying to do similar things
3-Success everywhere it's released
4-Old story, new situation
5-Sence of wonder at the experience and state of the art special effects.

It also helps that Avatar didn't entirely feel like a "sausage fest", as the female character was one of the best part in there, unlike with Guardians, where the only female character is the target of various sexist quips from the surrounding cast.

Okay, agree to disagree , but this is just opinions so no disrespect.
I'm not saying you're wrong here, and on a few points I agree,
I just disagree on a lot of it.

1- GOTG recognizable plot and story, it's the old "rag tag bunch of heroes with nothing to lose" it's a bunch of people thrown together who have get over their own stuff, and do the right thing. To me sounds a lot like Star Wars ANH.
Avatar, sure it was a recognizable story, but honestly dude, as I was watching it, it wasn't even a derivative of Dances with Wolves, it was almost a complete lift ( and yes, Star Wars is a lift of Kurosawa, but a much more cleverly done lift).
I can't speak on the "liked by any culture " point, but for myself it was just too much of a rip-off to be enjoyable from a story level. I don't mind if films are a bit formulaic, (especially action films) but anyone could have predicted precisely which characters would live, which would die and how the story was going to play out. In Star Wars, when Obi Wan dies, you're like " Nooooooo !" right along with Luke.

2- state of the Art technology. Hell, Avatar looks fantastic.l Avatar was definitely a leap forward from previous CGI, GOTG is an advance too, but not as much. That's one thing I have to give James Cameron, that guy pushes the technological edge in nearly every film. So I'll agree with that. Having said that. I felt like the locations in GOTG looked a bit less fake than the jungles of Avatar Too many glowing plants (it's like the alien planets in Reveng of the Sith, they look at little too clean and pretty to be real).

3- Success....well GOTG was made for less than Avatar, and has passed the 300 mil mark in 10 days, which is pretty good. I doubt it will beat
Avatar's record, but I'm okay with that.
Note GOTG has an RT score of 92%, Avatar 83%. Now I've argued many times that RT is not the be all and end all (otherwise Toy story would be as good a movie as the Godfather...which it aint !) but that's one thing to think about.

4- Old story, new situation. Yeah, Avatar is Dances with Na'avi, but I just didn't feel it had the heart that Dances with Wolves had. Now that's a movie that resonates, it gets you. Avatar was like:

Trees/nature/indigenous people = good

colonists/corporations/military/resource exploitation = bad

Sure, we know that stuff already. Dances with Wolves subtly brings you into it, Avatar hits you with that stuff like a sledgehammer.

Star Wars was nowhere near as preachy, and a lot more fun, probably why kids liked it so much - that's the main reason I think GOTG is much closer to SW, because of that whole sense of fun, it's the vibe, man.

Check out the Honest trailer for Avatar : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUTtt14G31c

kind of echoes what I said about the themes of Avatar.

5- sense of wonder. Again, for me the jungles just didn't look right. I don't mean as in they looked alien, because of course they were meant to.
Really good CGI tricks your brain into accepting the unreal as real. Nolan is a master of that (eg when Paris gets folded in Inception) Cameron did push CGI forward, but it still didn't work for me.....just me I guess.

As for GOTG, yeah the locations I thought were pretty cool, particularly Knowhere - mostly because they were a nice contrast Xandar was really clean, the Dark Aster was really dark and cold, and Knowhere was really grungy. They felt like they matched the people living in them. The Na'avi (as well as carbon fibre bones) must have dirt resistant skin, because there ain't noone who lives in the jungle and doesn't get dirty.

The floating mountains, now those were cool, probably the best CGI trick in the film - because the brain knows its impossible, but the eye says its okay.


As for female characters, Gamora wasn't great - but I didn't think there was anything particularly compelling about Neytiri....hmmmm maybe because they were played by the same actress !

As for Michelle Rodriguez, yawn, she's exactly the same in every movie. I was relieved when she got killed.

As for Star Wars, well that had an incredibly derivative female lead ( if you want to talk about sausage fests well, how many other main female characters are there ? Hell, how many other female characters are there at all ? )
If we're going to compare films, I still think GOTG is a much closer comparison for one main reason, which I've kind of hinted at.... the vibe.

GOTG is a fun, sci-fi adventure film with a heart and characters we cheer for, a re-working of an old story we can enjoy. Plus there are a couple of surprises in there.

Avatar is a preachy, completely predictable, overblown and visually-stunning, but a straight up lift of an old story, that gets kind of tedious.

Just IMO, but that's how I see it. Cheers.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Before seeing the movie I'd think this very question to be absurd. But it really was the damn good.

 

[Batmannerism]

Before seeing the movie I'd think this very question to be absurd. But it really was the damn good.

Tru dat ! That's what I'm saying about the vibe. I'm not saying it can replace Star Wars, but that it has that same vibe that made the original SW so awesome (must have seen it 20 times when I was a kid).

 

[Farren]

Star Wars is lightning in a bottle. At least the original films. Even these new Star Wars films aren't going to be "Star Wars for the 21st century." But, there definitely were some Star Wars vibes in GotG, and I think it could be fair to argue that GotG is...not a successor to Star Wars...but certainly a charming, scrappy younger sibling making an earnest and respectable bid to carry the torch.

I also think it's fair to compare them, because, let's be honest, when was the last time such a fun and remarkable non-sequel space opera has hit the big screen? It may operate in another level in terms of popularity and cultural impact, but it brought back the spotlight on space operas in a way no other movie could in a long time.

A good point.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

GotG didn't take itself seriously enough for me to place it on even a top ten space opera list.

The themes and lessons lacked a certain solidity.

 

[Batmannerism]

I think it depends on what people mean by "Star Wars for the 21st century". Will it be as much financially sucessful or culturally relevant? Nope. But quality-wise? It's debatable, but I'd say so. For my money, GOTG is better than 5 of the 6 Star Wars movies. I would even be hard-pressed choosing between GOTG and Empire Strikes Back, as I believe both have advantages on each other.

I also think it's fair to compare them, because, let's be honest, when was the last time such a fun and remarkable non-sequel space opera has hit the big screen? It may operate in another level in terms of popularity and cultural impact, but it brought back the spotlight on space operas in a way no other movie could in a long time.

Totally man, that's what I'm on about ! When was the last time a space-adventure film was this much fun and also so well done ? For me, the answer is 1977.

Of course GOTG won't have the impact Star Wars had, because Star wars was a first - it changed not just the sci-fi genre, but movie-making itself.

What I think is that GOTG picks up that original Star Wars vibe and runs with it, in an irreverant way, but a big theme in both SW and GOTG is friendship and sacrifice -which becomes the emotional heart of the movie. GOTG manages to pick up that heartbeat, without losing the sense of fun and wonder that made original SW so awesome. IMO.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

If you'd asked me this when I drove out of the movie opening weekend (and yeah, I got to see it at a drive-in, which was absolutely perfect) I would have voted the first option immediately. It's easily the best outer space actioner I've seen since I was 11 and going back to the theater seven straight Saturdays for Star Wars. There was the obvious nod to Raiders at the beginning as well, so it was hard not to get a late 70s/early 80s blockbuster vibe from this.

But I scaled back to the second choice because I might have found a better comparison. I came across a note last night reminding me that they were re-releasing Ghostbusters this weekend and just for kicks I looked up the late Roger Ebert's review. It may as well have been a review of Guardians.

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/ghostbusters-1984

Both movies face the same action vs. comedy challenge and win big. If I had to pick an ancestor for a Guardians, that'd be it.

 

[Batmannerism]

If you'd asked me this when I drove out of the movie opening weekend (and yeah, I got to see it at a drive-in, which was absolutely perfect) I would have voted the first option immediately. It's easily the best outer space actioner I've seen since I was 11 and going back to the theater seven straight Saturdays for Star Wars. There was the obvious nod to Raiders at the beginning as well, so it was hard not to get a late 70s/early 80s blockbuster vibe from this.

But I scaled back to the second choice because I might have found a better comparison. I came across a note last night reminding me that they were re-releasing Ghostbusters this weekend and just for kicks I looked up the late Roger Ebert's review. It may as well have been a review of Guardians.

http://www.rogerebert.com/reviews/ghostbusters-1984

Both movies face the same action vs. comedy challenge and win big. If I had to pick an ancestor for a Guardians, that'd be it.

Yeah I picked up the Raiders nod....until the walkman starts playing, but up until that point it really does have a raiders vibe (and like Indy, he is pursued by hostiles and escapes in a plane).
I can see the Ghostbusters similarities too, but never really thought of Ghostbusters as action-comedy, maybe sci-fi fanstasy comedy.....who knows, that film is in a class of its own. Hey, you should check out Honest Trailers, they do quite a good one on Ghostbusters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM-l_3RaYsk

Maybe GOTG is what Star Wars would have been if Lucas had collaborated with Ivan Reitman. Totally agree with you though that no space action film has come close to this one in ages. I remember going back to see Star Wars as a kid, again and again. I remember the feeling coming out of it the first time...and it was "WWWOOOOOOWWWWW!!!!" Guardians was the closest I felt to that in ages.

cheers.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

"Kids, this is a library. It's like a print out of Wikipedia where you have to be quiet."

Thanks for the link!