How the hell can Marvel let Loeb destroy Ultimates?

[fifthfiend]

Millar's Ultimates had their insane moments but they were far from two dimensional.

Hank Pym - Smart yet sniveling weakling with an inferiority complex and anger issues.

Bruce Banner - Smart yet sniveling weakling with an inferiority complex and anger issues.

Cap - Smart but violent tough guy with a superiority complex and anger issues.

Iron Man - Smart guy who's smarter than the other smart guys which you know 'cause he's a rich guy and if there's one belief Mark Millar actually has it's that More Money = Better Than. Has Cancer, Is Drunk.

Betty Banner - fickle *****.

Hawkeye - shoots things, loves his wife.

Did I miss anything?

 

[Brainiac 8]

Hank Pym - Smart yet sniveling weakling with an inferiority complex and anger issues.

Bruce Banner - Smart yet sniveling weakling with an inferiority complex and anger issues.

Cap - Smart but violent tough guy with a superiority complex and anger issues.

Iron Man - Smart guy who's smarter than the other smart guys which you know 'cause he's a rich guy and if there's one belief Mark Millar actually has it's that More Money = Better Than. Has Cancer, Is Drunk.

Betty Banner - fickle *****.

Hawkeye - shoots things, loves his wife.

Did I miss anything?

hahahaha!

Thor: Not sure of his origin, probably God with anger issues.


My favorite thing Loeb has done in the past while was Superman/Batman, which was awesome.

 

[Anubis]

The First Arc was awesome. Everything else was meh to crap and a half.

 

[The Major]

Hank Pym - Smart yet sniveling weakling with an inferiority complex and anger issues.

True.

Bruce Banner - Smart yet sniveling weakling with an inferiority complex and anger issues.

You forgot that he does want to do good in the world. He injected himself with a new serum in Vol.1 because he wanted to "help" the team by giving them a threat to satisfy the public and government that they weren't a waste of money.

Bruce is deeply ashamed of the death and destruction the Hulk has caused.

Cap - Smart but violent tough guy with a superiority complex and anger issues.

Please, that's surface detail at best.

Millar made readers believe he truly lived during WW II though little things like mentioning his Bing Cosby records and him staying in building he used to live in despite it having become a ****hole in modern times, his friendship with Bucky and Gail etc.

Loeb just has him get angry at people using swear words.

He's an amazing tactician who uses several plans at once with many back ups in place re: Hulk.

Iron Man - Smart guy who's smarter than the other smart guys which you know 'cause he's a rich guy and if there's one belief Mark Millar actually has it's that More Money = Better Than. Has Cancer, Is Drunk.

His cancer is the main reason why he became Iron Man in the first place. They aren't seperate details.

He also is a multi-tasker, scared to death into a combat situation (that's why he gets drunk before suiting up), incredibly paranoid and heavily into psychology since he knows he's unhinged so he does mental exercises to fix it.

Betty Banner - fickle *****.

She's more complicated then that. She does love Bruce and can be sympathetic. She was horrified when Jan revealed how Hank broke her lower jaw in two while in college IIRC.

Hawkeye - shoots things, loves his wife.

He was a veteran spy whose partner, the Black Widow, was his best friend/partner until he discovered she killed his family. He has three kids, not two. Was a close friend with Fury. Has Loeb even had him notice that Fury is missing at all?

All three were founders of SHIELD.

Did I miss anything?

Yes.

A good execution.

This series needs Ed Brubaker or Greg Rucka.

 

[fifthfiend]

You forgot that he does want to do good in the world. He injected himself with a new serum in Vol.1 because he wanted to "help" the team by giving them a threat to satisfy the public and government that they weren't a waste of money.

Bruce is deeply ashamed of the death and destruction the Hulk has caused.

Which is to say that he killed a bunch of people on a ridiculous pretext because of his inferiority complex. And then snivelled about it.

Millar made readers believe he truly lived during WW II though little things like mentioning his Bing Cosby records and him staying in building he used to live in despite it having become a ****hole in modern times, his friendship with Bucky and Gail etc.

...He's an amazing tactician who uses several plans at once with many back ups in place re: Hulk.

Which is to say he has a superiority complex towards everything that happened after 1945 (because he comes from the ridiculous fantasy version of the 40s that Millar knows about from having watched half of Saving Private Ryan one time). Also he is Smart and a Tough Guy.

He also is a SMART, DRUNK, SMART GUY and heavily into BEING A SMART GUY since he's BETTER THAN.

You're not even making this difficult.

She does love Bruce and can be sympathetic.

Except when she doesn't. IE, she's a fickle *****.

I mean again I'm saying this all as someone who enjoyed Millar's glib verbiage and pseudointellectual gloss, but I'm not about to go mistaking it for actual depth.

 

[BrianWilly]

Ultron is very angry about being a vibrator.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Isn't that Mighty Avengers?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Ultron was the vibratee in that.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

w/ great Jan-boobs

 

[The Major]

Which is to say that he killed a bunch of people on a ridiculous pretext because of his inferiority complex.

None of the Ultimates were meant to be paragons of virtue like they are in the 616.

They had their good and bad sides to their personalities. They weren't black and white caricatures.

And then snivelled about it.

You'd hate him even more if he hadn't shown remorse.

Which is to say he has a superiority complex towards everything that happened after 1945

Cap wasn't badmouthing every single thing from the 21st century in the series.

He seemed pretty upbeat, actually.

(because he comes from the ridiculous fantasy version of the 40s that Millar knows about from having watched half of Saving Private Ryan one time).

He did the proper research while delivering a great story from it to set up the series from.

Also he is Smart and a Tough Guy.

Any character can be smart or tough. How they act with those traits is up to the writer to make them unique.

You're not even making this difficult.

There are many kinds of smart, drunk and better. How a character deals with it depends on whether they are interesting to read. Millar does this, Loeb does not.

Except when she doesn't.

That isn't all she's about, though.

IE, she's a fickle *****.

Fickle isn't everything she is.

She wasn't in Millar's Ultimates that much, either. Plenty of potential to add new dimensions to the character after he left.

I mean again I'm saying this all as someone who enjoyed Millar's glib verbiage and pseudointellectual gloss, but I'm not about to go mistaking it for actual depth.

It's the Pacific ocean compared to Vol.3.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Wow. Do all Ultimates fanboys think the Avengers are "paragons of virtues"? Because they're really, really not. They're just not completely asinine jerks like the Ultimates.

 

[FireFlys Enigma]

I've been out of the loop with buying and reading comics for about a decade. Little by little, for the past 2 years, I've been trying to catch up. I just finished reading The Ultimates 1 and 2 (both volumes) and I think that Millar and company did a decent job. Sure there were things I can nitpick about but overall I was entertained.

Please correct me if I'm wrong...Millar and Hitch are not apart of The Ultimates Volume 3 and Loeb took the helm. And, from what I read, is that Loeb didn't a good job. Loeb is really good at what he does. What did he do to hurt the Ultimates?

 

[Blader5489]

I've been out of the loop with buying and reading comics for about a decade. Little by little, for the past 2 years, I've been trying to catch up. I just finished reading The Ultimates 1 and 2 (both volumes) and I think that Millar and company did a decent job. Sure there were things I can nitpick about but overall I was entertained.

Please correct me if I'm wrong...Millar and Hitch are not apart of The Ultimates Volume 3 and Loeb took the helm. And, from what I read, is that Loeb didn't a good job. Loeb is really good at what he does. What did he do to hurt the Ultimates?

Quoth the Joker: "Where do we begin..."

Let's see, there's the awful dialogue, the poor characterizations, the complete betrayal of the Ultimate concept (i.e. it's more 616 than Ultimate), the terrible plotting, the pointless hero/villain cameos, the just-as-pointless murder of a main character, and the total lack of continuity with both Millar's Ultimates and the rest of the Ultimate universe.

And, like on Hulk, Loeb is pandering to his artist, which means a lot of trivial **** (e.g. dinosaurs). Plus, Mad's style is way too stylized and over-the-top for the Ultimates.

In short: it's the worst Marvel book out.

 

[ragingdemon155]

Quoth the Joker: "Where do we begin..."

Let's see, there's the awful dialogue, the poor characterizations, the complete betrayal of the Ultimate concept (i.e. it's more 616 than Ultimate), the terrible plotting, the pointless hero/villain cameos, the just-as-pointless murder of a main character, and the total lack of continuity with both Millar's Ultimates and the rest of the Ultimate universe.

And, like on Hulk, Loeb is pandering to his artist, which means a lot of trivial **** (e.g. dinosaurs). Plus, Mad's style is way too stylized and over-the-top for the Ultimates.

In short: it's the worst Marvel book out.

Post of the century!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I don't get it. If it's more 616 than Ultimate, it's better by default.

 

[Anubis]

It's like when you were reading Batgirl, and you were all used to Cassandra being Cassandra. Finally beating her demons and everything looks like she's gonna become a better person, then some *****e bag named Beechen shows up and totally destroys her character. That's essentially what went down with Ultimates. Complete and utter change to what you were used to, and done badly.

 

[kguillou]

I know this is an "Ultimates" thread but out of pure curiosity what did Beechen do to Batgirl?

 

[Anubis]

Made her a killer, then said she was brainwashed into doing it, then had her try to kill the guy who Brainwashed her.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Correction: is currently still having her try to kill the guys who brainwashed her, fully aware that she'll probably get kicked out of the Bat-club for it.

 

[The Question]

w/ great Jan-boobs

Wait a minute. She-Ultron is modeled after Janet? But isn't Ultron's whole deal that he has a massive oedipal complex, trying to punish and destroy Hank while at the same time acting for Janet's attention and affection.


...super villains are gross.

 

[fifthfiend]

Correction: is currently still having her try to kill the guys who brainwashed her, fully aware that she'll probably get kicked out of the Bat-club for it.

All while still apparently having no clue whatsoever about the character or her ability set and basically writing her as Generic Vicious Ninja-*****.

 

[Anubis]

Wait a minute. She-Ultron is modeled after Janet? But isn't Ultron's whole deal that he has a massive oedipal complex, trying to punish and destroy Hank while at the same time acting for Janet's attention and affection.


...super villains are gross.

Actually, the fact that Ultron is basically Hank Pym minus his morality kinda means Hank is a pretty sick pup minus an conscience.

 

[FireFlys Enigma]

Quoth the Joker: "Where do we begin..."

Let's see, there's the awful dialogue, the poor characterizations, the complete betrayal of the Ultimate concept (i.e. it's more 616 than Ultimate), the terrible plotting, the pointless hero/villain cameos, the just-as-pointless murder of a main character, and the total lack of continuity with both Millar's Ultimates and the rest of the Ultimate universe.

And, like on Hulk, Loeb is pandering to his artist, which means a lot of trivial **** (e.g. dinosaurs). Plus, Mad's style is way too stylized and over-the-top for the Ultimates.

In short: it's the worst Marvel book out.

Thanks Blader5489,

Wow, that's a lot of things that seem to have ruin the run of the Ultimates. I really enjoyed what I read so far. I still have to check it out so I can complete the series. Sounds like a really big downer.

 

[The Question]

Actually, the fact that Ultron is basically Hank Pym minus his morality kinda means Hank is a pretty sick pup minus an conscience.

Really, one could argue that Ultron is the living embodiment of Hank's self loathing.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Actually, the fact that Ultron is basically Hank Pym minus his morality kinda means Hank is a pretty sick pup minus an conscience.

Doesn't that apply to everyone? Imagine what you'd be like without a conscience.