Bought/Thought for August 13, 2008; SPOILERS INSIDE!

It does make it different. You could easily type "so what" to anything it's not a rebuttal.
If it's better is questionable.

Sure it depends on what you like or dislike. I agree. I'm not saying that "so what" is a rebuttal. I'm saying that if the story is the same at it's core but just involves more titles, what's the big deal?

I was thinking that this was to be something that was going to "shake" the 616 to the core. People were going to be skrulls that we never would have guessed. But so far it hasn't and we're past the half way point. Bendis sounds like he's going by the "How to write a story" book. I'm sure the next act will have the Skrulls make some sort of major move back at the heroes that will make things seem hopeless, but then in the final act things will work out and nothing will be any different.

It's not like i think they'll be something huge like Aunt May has been a Skrull since the 30s. But some sort of new ideas would be nice.

Scale does not make the same story any different. It's like WWH. We've seen Hulk fight almost everyone before. That's what he does. He's the good guy that fights other good guys. The Avengers started b/c of him. But we're sold WWH like it's something new because of "scale." This time he fights them all... In a Row (da da daaaa).
 
I was thinking that this was to be something that was going to "shake" the 616 to the core. People were going to be skrulls that we never would have guessed. But so far it hasn't and we're past the half way point. Bendis sounds like he's going by the "How to write a story" book. I'm sure the next act will have the Skrulls make some sort of major move back at the heroes that will make things seem hopeless, but then in the final act things will work out and nothing will be any different.

It's not like i think they'll be something huge like Aunt May has been a Skrull since the 30s. But some sort of new ideas would be nice.

Scale does not make the same story any different. It's like WWH. We've seen Hulk fight almost everyone before. That's what he does. He's the good guy that fights other good guys. The Avengers started b/c of him. But we're sold WWH like it's something new because of "scale." This time he fights them all... In a Row (da da daaaa).



Hmm you make a fair point.

But really I think you may be asking a bit too much of well any super hero comics. We are pretty much at saturation point with this genre's tropes, there is very little left to do in it and what is left to do certainly isn't going to come front and centre in a marvel event book. Thats why I cited scale as a differing factor as it's pretty much all that's safe to change.

I mean maybe it's my lack of talent but what actually could realistically be published with a skrull event that you couldn't say well its been done before?

Even you're aunt may idea (even though it was a joke) has pretty much been done before (her back to life retacon).

That said I didn't quite understand where you were coming from when you asked initially but now I more or less agree with the caveat that you're probably asking a bit much :)
 
Buckaroo Banzai-The Prequel #1: Terrible, terrible book, and waaay overpriced. ($3.99 for 22 pages, as the last 12 pages are just ads for their other books.) The story is completely boring and the art is the same. Skip it, skip it, skip it! 2/10

Frank Frazetta's Dracula Meets The Wolfman: Another Frazetta one-shot, this one better than the last, but still with a generic, quick tale featuring Dracula and the Wolf-Man. In this, the two fight when Dracula has his sights set on a young woman who loves and is loved by the person who transforms into the Wolf-Man. This is a very quick read. Sadly, it's not anywhere near as good as Death Dealer. 7/10
 
Hmm you make a fair point.

But really I think you may be asking a bit too much of well any super hero comics. We are pretty much at saturation point with this genre's tropes, there is very little left to do in it and what is left to do certainly isn't going to come front and centre in a marvel event book. Thats why I cited scale as a differing factor as it's pretty much all that's safe to change.

I mean maybe it's my lack of talent but what actually could realistically be published with a skrull event that you couldn't say well its been done before?

Even you're aunt may idea (even though it was a joke) has pretty much been done before (her back to life retacon).

That said I didn't quite understand where you were coming from when you asked initially but now I more or less agree with the caveat that you're probably asking a bit much :)

You're totally right. I am asking too much. And i see all of your points and I could totally agree with them too.

I just feel like there are such talented people out there that there has to be stories left to tell that are fresh.

Look at Capt America and Ed B. Or GL & Superman and GJ. Or Pak's Planet Hulk. I feel there are things that can be done. This is the big leagues of comics. I don't feel like it's too much to ask Marvel to put stories out that are amazing. Esp from their "top guy" writer.

Saying everything has been done would defeat putting out new stuff at all.
 
Don't worry, you and Dread are both correct. gildea and Blader are two people who will defend this crap until logic and reason become nonsensical.

What the ****?

The only two posts I've even made in this thread were about Maria Hill actually being not a *****, and Dread's weird "Great Ultron" thing. Enough of the strawman personal attacks, alright?
 
The Walking Dead #51: One of my guaranteed good comics. You really don't need to know much about what's gone on before or after with this issue, as it's as close to a one-shot as you'll get with this title. It focuses on the emotional and mental trauma a person can go through after dealing with the zombie crisis. It's done very well, and things continue to look pretty bleak for Rick and Carl. 9/10

The Lone Ranger #12: After a summer hiatus, The Lone Ranger returns, and so does one of the most decompressed comics you can buy. One thing really sticks out, and that's how much this version of the Lone Ranger is like Batman...even having his base be in a cave. We get a new storyline, and the Lone Ranger and Tonto have to help some townsfolk in a neighboring town. A comic like this is better served in a trade format. 7/10

Zorro #6: A much better book from Dynamite, this issue continues with Zorro's origin, all the while giving us action that is happening in the present. Unlike Lone Ranger, this book doesn't suffer from decompression; but, uses each page to it's fullest potential, all the while taking it's time to give us a full, in depth origin of it's main character. In issue 6, we learn of why Zorro wears his costume and where his fortune comes from. There are still many questions yet to be answered; but, at least this comic comes out on a pretty steady basis. 9/10

Firebreather #2: So far, two issues in, this series has been pretty decent. It really focuses on the difficulties the main character has in his everyday life more than him being a superhero. Of course, stuff is going to happen down the line; but, the set-up is enjoyable to read. It's just too bad these Image books, like Dynamo 5 and Astounding Wolf-Man, get such crappy artists. 8/10
 
Neither Bendis or Millar wrote that one, to be fair.

Okay true. As I can't think of a relevant example for Millar (no I don't actually think the Ultimates is preachy) I'm going to take back the comment as it relates to him.

But Bendis remains the preachiest, making-his-characters-spout-unvarnished-opinionated-verbiage mother****er that ever lived.
 
Okay true. As I can't think of a relevant example for Millar (no I don't actually think the Ultimates is preachy) I'm going to take back the comment as it relates to him.

But Bendis is the preachiest, hijacking-characters-as-mouthpieces-for-his-own-soliloquies mother****er that ever lived.

I can only think of two examples including yours.

That hardly fits your description.

Feel free to provide others though...
 
I can only think of two examples including yours.

Two examples sounds a whole lot like proof to me. If you want more why don't you go read some comics yourself for a change, instead of sitting here demanding that someone come along and read them to you?

PS: You seriously can't think of the like three other examples from the same arc of Powers comics from which my preceding example was taken, wherein Bendis started each installment of the arc having a mouthpiece character preach directly to the reader? Are you totally full of **** or just honestly that defective?
 
I think Ultimates was pretty damn preachy, just not in the way that you'd expect. It was basically the biggest liberal propaganda piece in comics since a black guy told Hal Jordan off, and yup I can totally back up that utterly-biased opinion with rational fact. Later.
 
...I was going to argue that aside from whether Ultimates amounts to propaganda of whatever stripe, at minimum it's not 'preachy' in that IIRC nobody ever turns directly at you and lectures you for a page straight about their boring-ass philosophy of whatever, and mostly advances whatever philosophy it has through the interactions of its characters. But then I recalled that some of the dialogue from Colonel Middle-East probably passes as straightforward preachin's. Though I forget if he had time to preach a whole lot before Cap beat him to death. Some of the other Anti-Ultimates too a bit but a lot of the point of those characters is that they're utterly hypocritical and the speechifying they do comes with that negationary subtext.

But past those Ultimates isn't any more preachy than say any given Michael Bay movie where the heroic US Army saves the day, FOR AMERICA. "Preachy" isn't the same thing as "having a viewpoint you dislike". Like a lot of Fables is obnoxiously conservative, but it's not really preachy until you have, e.g., Bigby Wolf lecturing a captive audience on the awesome badassedness of Israel.

I call Bendis preachy because he has his characters continually face the camera and speechify their ranty opinion about whatever, uninterrupted and unrebutted, for panels or pages at a time. Hell I even agree with say, Luke Cage's preachering back in New Avengers about 'Spot superheroing' or whatever he called it in that issue. Even Rich Parker's posthumous rant about how everything sucks cause nobody ever tries and everyone's a big fat cheating fathead had a ring of truth to it. But still, preachy as hell.
 
Dread, why the **** do you keep referring to Ultron as "Great Ultron"?

Because that was what Ultron named himself, and what the Phalanx called him, in his last appearance as the head villain in ANNIHILATION CONQUEST, set some time after his gig on MIGHTY AVENGERS.

You know if it was the other way round you'd complain it was predictable,

I don't mind "predictable" if it is handled well. There were times when Bendis could handle an action sequence, or at least allow his writers to do so. This issue had a lot of middling, padding. But we can argue that most stories that are beyond 6 issues in length do. I haven't read a story in years that was more than 6 issues that I actually felt warranted that, that it couldn't have been edited down.

To be fair he has been studying one and already knew how they were doing it. The rest is perfectly in character.

In issue one he mumbles something about it, and then, BOOM, he busts out a gun. I mean, that's IT!? Reed MAKES A GUN!? I just watched the latest FF cartoon, the one that was on CN, and while Reed did stuff like that a lot on that show, the writers at least knew how ridiculous it was and didn't take it 100% seriously. This story, however, is serious and it just seemed too easy. Just because we KNOW Reed can save the day doesn't mean it should be easy. I mean, I rag on Millar, but I have to say, his sequence where Reed busts out an Anti-Galactus MECHA tom fight CAP in the first FF arc of his was handled a bit better than this. There was more scale, more drama, to it. While I did like that Reed was irked about the situation (and noted so), I just though the ray-gun came too quickly (even for issue #5 for a story, no less) and made the Skrulls look inept.


See, here is the thing; while the Skrull invasion I suppose has been "big" world-wide and all with super-Skrulls, aside for that, they've been morons. They make tactical blunders not even the Rhino would fall for. They rail on and on about not underestimating their enemies, as they continue to underestimate them. They fall for the oldest, stupidest tricks in the book while uber-powerful heroes can't detect them at all until a Plot Hole opens and allows them to.

Quite frankly, ANY writer could have come up with the idea of having the Skrulls just juice themselves up and attack in waves. That was, basically ANNIHILATION (only swap Skrulls for Annihilus, and the Universe for Earth). This story has tried to have trappings of more, with the religious stuff and the preening, and that is where it falls flat. Bendis presents these Skrulls as being "different", but they're really not. They're just more pretentious.

For gods sake calm down. A writer hyping his story is not a personal attack and should not be considered as such.
Anyway got any links for him saying his stories are superior or have you just pulled that (like most of your personal attacks on bendis or whedon) out the ether?

I always get a snarky tone from Bendis interviews, especially when he is defending himself when fans think he made an error (which he often did, especially years ago). And it comes out in his writing. I recall that NEW AVENGERS issue where Ronin was going on about the "mystery" about the identity and all but calls the readers "idiots".

(Don't worry, I know these aren't personal attacks on me or anything. You've cited agreement and respect for me enough that I got the hint. ;) )

I noticed Lilith too. Gives Blade another reason to be in the book

Exactly. Like I said, it may NOT be that, as Spitfire is a vampire now, but Blade would be interested in putting Lilith down. Especially since the rest of the Midnight Sons are basically defunct.

It's like clockwork--a Bendis comic is released and inevitably the Bought/Thought thread features a scathing rant from Dread followed by a rebuttal by gildea. It's almost eerie in its consistency.

Life works in cycles. :up:

But they weren't. This is the hilarious part. They weren't responsible for anything and Bendis made big point of reminding us every single issue of Avengers that they didn't do jack. They had nothing to do with Civil War. They had nothing to do with the Hulk. They impersonated a bunch of B-listers like Blackbolt, Pym, Elektra, Jarvis, and Spider-Woman and then proceeded to perform their incredibly efficient and stealthy task of...waiting for the heroes to **** up themselves.

To be fair, which I almost hate doing with Bendis, if the Skrulls have been impersonating Hank Pym since about when the New Avengers started up, which is what has been implied and stated in some issues, that would mean that the Pym that was involved in CIVIL WAR was a Skrull. And while, no, he wouldn't have caused it, he would have helped it along. Pym made Clor, after all. The Initiative was supposedly dreamed up by him (or he played a major role in it). He runs Camp Hammond and helped allow some of the disasters there by allowing Gyrich and Co. to go unchecked and playing the fool.

So the case could be made that they "helped" CW along. Not the strongest one, but a case. At least it explains why Pym was wildly out of character. The rest of the heroes, that's another story.

But, yeah, you do have a point that the Skrulls snuck onto Earth and waited all this time for a basic massive invasion that any hack could have thought up. Wasn't this basically "shock and awe"? ;)
 
Batman #679 - A backup identity?Crazy.

Punisher War Journal #22 - This book has been insane since Chaykin came aboard.Great action since the start.

SI:Thor #1 - Better than I expected and very accessible for someone not reading SI.

Inv. Iron Man #4 - This book has really impressed me.I was worried when the Knaufs left but Fraction has created something else entirely that really works.
 
Two examples sounds a whole lot like proof to me. If you want more why don't you go read some comics yourself for a change, instead of sitting here demanding that someone come along and read them to you?

Sheesh. Two examples doesn't prove he is the preachest writer around.

Regardless I'm hardly demanding anything just wondering where your opinion came from. And hey you explain it pretty well later. Though the luke cage thing wa hardly preachy (it seemed more like an attempt to be current, but hey ho).

PS: You seriously can't think of the like three other examples from the same arc of Powers comics from which my preceding example was taken, wherein Bendis started each installment of the arc having a mouthpiece character preach directly to the reader? Are you totally full of **** or just honestly that defective?

My bad I did take the stand up comics as one example. Also take a valium or something.

There was more scale, more drama, to it. While I did like that Reed was irked about the situation (and noted so), I just though the ray-gun came too quickly (even for issue #5 for a story, no less) and made the Skrulls look inept.

I do agree actually, I was just observing that it's reed f***** richards and he does this all the time.

I recall that NEW AVENGERS issue where Ronin was going on about the "mystery" about the identity and all but calls the readers "idiots".

Whats the quote? (I can't remember but it seems like a stretch).


Quite frankly, ANY writer could have come up with the idea of having the Skrulls just juice themselves up and attack in waves. That was, basically ANNIHILATION (only swap Skrulls for Annihilus, and the Universe for Earth). This story has tried to have trappings of more, with the religious stuff and the preening, and that is where it falls flat. Bendis presents these Skrulls as being "different", but they're really not. They're just more pretentious.

Well as I discussed earlier I really don't think you're going to get much more of a difference than scale due to the nature of comics. To be honest this story is arguably failing because the concept of people infiltrating needs years to work properly, you can't cast suspicion in just an event with lots of tie in issues. it would have worked better as a long running plot in the avengers titles, it may not be to everyones taste for an example of how well this can work is the magneto/xorn reveal in new xmen. Event comics are big, dumb and noisy and on that level SI isn't too bad (despite the ridiculous padding of the savage land sequence). I just can't think of a company wide event that has ever been among the best thing the company has put out due simply to the nature of the comics.
 
I do agree actually, I was just observing that it's reed f***** richards and he does this all the time.

I know, but it all is in the execution. I mean, Batman stops the criminal and saves Gotham City nearly every time, but what determines a story we all remember to one we all dismiss is execution. To me, that has usually been Bendis' downfall; his executions of a lot of his ideas and plot points, this sequence being one of them. Nearly everything he has ever written with a co-writer has usually been more enjoyable.

Whats the quote? (I can't remember but it seems like a stretch).

It is at home. I would have to look it up. It is the issue where Echo is ambushed in Japan and I think she returns to the states or something. I'll have to go digging.

Well as I discussed earlier I really don't think you're going to get much more of a difference than scale due to the nature of comics. To be honest this story is arguably failing because the concept of people infiltrating needs years to work properly, you can't cast suspicion in just an event with lots of tie in issues. it would have worked better as a long running plot in the avengers titles, it may not be to everyones taste for an example of how well this can work is the magneto/xorn reveal in new xmen. Event comics are big, dumb and noisy and on that level SI isn't too bad (despite the ridiculous padding of the savage land sequence). I just can't think of a company wide event that has ever been among the best thing the company has put out due simply to the nature of the comics.

You're right; the idea of a mass infiltration needed to be set up better and under longer terms, rather than Bendis madly trying to make it seem like this was all planned for 4 years, instead of him jamming square pegs into round holes.

That said, I still would say that this has been an improvement over HOUSE OF M. That's not saying much, but it is something. A C+ is better than a D+.

I think it is about time Marvel handed over the reigns of events to writers who are better able to handle such stories, rather than who is the biggest name.
 
But most writers, if they're worth much, would realize that the massive events that Bendis and others are so fond of aren't really necessary. There's nothing wrong with telling a story in 100 parts, but the majority of Marvel's company-wide crossovers can be told in a lot less.

They can be a good thing. If a certain corner of the universe is getting too muddy to understand, then there should be a Crisis or even a House of M to clear things up and make a few changes along the way. But that's not how they've been handled.

I'm enjoying Secret Invasion, mostly for the new Runaways/Young Avengers book, and the Sacred Invasion arc of Incredible Hercules, but it should have heralded a return to a less chaotic Marvel universe, and if anything, it looks like everything is just going to get more complicated.
 
Like a lot of Fables is obnoxiously conservative, but it's not really preachy until you have, e.g., Bigby Wolf lecturing a captive audience on the awesome badassedness of Israel.

I really really want to see how Fables is obnoxiously conservative. All of that sounds like personal projections to me.
 
If Fables is "really really conservative" then it just shot the top of my must read list.

Not that I'm "really really conservative" myself, I'm just getting pretty tired of heavy-handed ultra-liberalism in comics.
 
There are really only two notable instances of really obvious politics that I can think of; an anti-abortion bit in the early part of "March of the Wooden Soldiers", and the 'Israel Analogy' (it's actually called that) chapter of #50.
 
Conservative? Guess I missed that. All I got out of it is that Bigby is the s**t.
 
Firebreather #2: So far, two issues in, this series has been pretty decent. It really focuses on the difficulties the main character has in his everyday life more than him being a superhero. Of course, stuff is going to happen down the line; but, the set-up is enjoyable to read. It's just too bad these Image books, like Dynamo 5 and Astounding Wolf-Man, get such crappy artists. 8/10


You be crazy.
 

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