How would you Fix a character?

[Artistsean]

If you don't have him deal with any super humans, then you loose his great interactions with them.
Like his teaming up with Superman, they are so different and so the same. They are such a great team up.
You'd miss ideas like Superman and Batman having a mutual competition of who can find out the others identity first. (from Superman/Batman Annual)
-"I have been looking at year books of every high school for the last 20(?) years, I'll find that chin eventually" Batman
-"The led lined cowl was a good idea, but I'll figure it out."

Or Superman telling the white aliens that Batman is the most dangersous human alive.
Or the Tower of Babbel idea, of Ras using Batman's fail safe plans for taking down every JLA member (Incase he had to)

Cutting out all the Super human elements like that really limits the stories.

 

[The Question]

If you don't have him deal with any super humans, then you loose his great interactions with them.
Like his teaming up with Superman, they are so different and so the same. They are such a great team up.
You'd miss ideas like Superman and Batman having a mutual competition of who can find out the others identity first. (from Superman/Batman Annual)
-"I have been looking at year books of every high school for the last 20(?) years, I'll find that chin eventually" Batman
-"The led lined cowl was a good idea, but I'll figure it out."

Or Superman telling the white aliens that Batman is the most dangersous human alive.
Or the Tower of Babbel idea, of Ras using Batman's fail safe plans for taking down every JLA member (Incase he had to)

Cutting out all the Super human elements like that really limits the stories.

I never said Batman shouldn't interact with Superman and the other heroes. Also, I didn't say that the superhuman elements of his interaction with the DCU should be cut out. He should still be at least aware of and face aliens and demons on some level. However, the superhuman atributes that Batman is written with when he does interact with the DCU entire should be tossed. And for three very simple reasons:

1) Concentraiting on Batman's feats turns him from a character to a plot device. People start making a big deal when he isn't written as a god aming men when it's barely an issue.

2) If he can take out White Martians like that, how the hell is The Joker supposed to be a threat to him?

3) He is not a superhuman. That is the very idea of the character. If he is written as a superhuman and yet is said to not be a superhuman, that makes no sense. There are people who say that they just want to see Batman preforming cool feats and think I'm missing the point of comics. I say, sure, that's fine. But then why not simply say he's a low level metahuman? I mean, if people say that the point of Batman is that he's a regular human who's become a highly skilled detective and fighter, and yet he is written as if he were a low level metahuman in the vein of Deathstroke or Captain America, then doesn't that make the idea of him just being a regular, non powered human being meaningless?

 

[Artistsean]

Oh, I see what you mean. Making him unstoppable and immortal. I agree, he should seem more human.
I thought you meant no sumperman, no meta humans, no aliens.

The idea of him taking down a white martian was that by his obvserving them, and them assuming that since he was human he wasn't a threat, he was able to figure out (using his detective skills) their weakness. He, a dangerous, but only human, was able to figure out how to stop them while the JLA couldn't.

But i agree, he shouldn't be able to face Darkseid or someone as dangerous as that. He is still only human, which is why his above average skills are so great.

 

[The Question]

Oh, I see what you mean. Making him unstoppable and immortal. I agree, he should seem more human.
I thought you meant no sumperman, no meta humans, no aliens.

The idea of him taking down a white martian was that by his obvserving them, and them assuming that since he was human he wasn't a threat, he was able to figure out (using his detective skills) their weakness. He, a dangerous, but only human, was able to figure out how to stop them while the JLA couldn't.

But i agree, he shouldn't be able to face Darkseid or someone as dangerous as that. He is still only human, which is why his above average skills are so great.

There were still, I think, many flaws with the Batman VS, Four White Martians fight. I mean, they're from a society of telepaths. I would thus assume that telepathy is the main mode of communication with them. The fact that he stopped to spell his plan and how he figured them out in intricate detail makes the whole scene nonsensical, as they should have gleaned the the fire trick from him mind and ripped him limb from limb at super speed before the match hit the floor. If he had been completely stealthy and using quick sneak atacks, it would have made more sense, but the abilities of the Martians were all but ignored for the sake of Batman looking cool in that scene.

 

[GL1]

I'd give John Stewart his personality (last seen in GL: Mosaic) back, and, honestly, give him a family as supporting characters. Touch on his destiny and establish him as a peacemaker among the GL Corps...

 

[The Question]

Okay, I think I've figured out how to fix Lex Luthor's recent suckitude and actually get some good stories out of it. My idea goes as such:

Due to the mind ****s Lex was getting from being near an anti-matter Luthor during IC and Alex Luthor's messing with the fabric of time and space, the post crisis version of Lex and the very briefly revived pre-Crisis Lex folded into one individual. This gave Lex a form of multiple personality disorder. One personality was Alexander Luthor, the rutheless, arrogant, machiavellian super genius we all know and love. While he is manipulative and quite full of himself, he is not without his redeeming qualities and noble motivations, being the kind of villain who wants to "save the world" wether we like it or not. The other personality is Alexei Luthor, the Pre-Crisis Luthor. Unlike Alexander, Alexei is a full blown sociopath, unrelenting in his quest for power and completely disregarding the safety of others, including those he considers his friends and loved ones. This Luthor is the one responsible for the near destruction of Metropolis in "Up Up and Away," and the many deaths that resulted. I'd have a storyline with Luthor battling against his other personality, trying to purge himself of it. Eventually he succeeds, but his reputation is irreparable. As a result, he goes on the run, and begins to resemble some of the more "extreme heroes" in comics such as the members of the Authority in his actions, eventually forming his own team that is similar to The Authority in it's philosophies. Maybe I could work the ghost of Manchester Black in there somewhere.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

There were still, I think, many flaws with the Batman VS, Four White Martians fight. I mean, they're from a society of telepaths. I would thus assume that telepathy is the main mode of communication with them. The fact that he stopped to spell his plan and how he figured them out in intricate detail makes the whole scene nonsensical, as they should have gleaned the the fire trick from him mind and ripped him limb from limb at super speed before the match hit the floor. If he had been completely stealthy and using quick sneak atacks, it would have made more sense, but the abilities of the Martians were all but ignored for the sake of Batman looking cool in that scene.

Maybe his cowl had psy-shielding.

Or, more likely, maybe every scene ever written in a comic book in which a secret plan is unveiled is written that way. Almost all of them shouldn't be. But they are. It's a convention of the medium.

 

[The Question]

Maybe his cowl had psy-shielding.

Possibly. There is a high tech headband in the Watchtower that he was shown to wear in a later story involving the White Martians. It is possible that he somehow got a hold of it before he broke into their compound. Still, seems a bit flimsy to me.

Or, more likely, maybe every scene ever written in a comic book in which a secret plan is unveiled is written that way. Almost all of them shouldn't be. But they are. It's a convention of the medium.

Mediums should not have conventions, besides the basic aspects of their nature (novels are words printed on many pages that tell a story, paintings are drawings and designs made on a canvas that convey an idea, comic books are words and drawings on paper that do both, etc.)

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

There are a few, or more, characters out there that are having or have had a hard time keeping readers or being interesting.
Sometimes they get changed over and over again to try and make them interesting, by either changing the costume or the person behind the costume, or their back story.
For Example, Aquaman and so on.

How would you fix one of these characters so that they would be interesting and keep readers?

Interesting question,it would majorly depend on how popular the character was and if fans would react postively or negativly to the character change.Because usually fans would be interested in some change or another.

I would approve of a good,yet different type of story for the character.I would also put a fan favorite writer to do good justice to the character.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Possibly. There is a high tech headband in the Watchtower that he was shown to wear in a later story involving the White Martians. It is possible that he somehow got a hold of it before he broke into their compound. Still, seems a bit flimsy to me.

That's what I was referring to. Unfortunately for my theory, he for some reason keeps the damn thing in the Watchtower. I can't imagine why he wouldn't always roll with it. I'm going to tell myself that he only left it in the Watchtower on accident during Terror Incognita, and he usually carried it all the time.

Mediums should not have conventions, besides the basic aspects of their nature (novels are words printed on many pages that tell a story, paintings are drawings and designs made on a canvas that convey an idea, comic books are words and drawings on paper that do both, etc.)

True, but the reveal of the secret plan happens in every story with a secret plan (or the majority, in case you've got a massive list of stories where it didn't happen.) It happened in the Watchmen, for example, one of the greatest superhero stories ever, if not the greatest. Maybe if we became comic book writers, they would tell us why it's so necessary. Could be a holdover from an era where everything had to be made obvious, and it wasn't obvious enough unless the hero said it. But whatever it is, it's here to stay, like the annoying plot recap at the beginning of the second issue of an arc onward.

 

[The Question]

That's what I was referring to. Unfortunately for my theory, he for some reason keeps the damn thing in the Watchtower. I can't imagine why he wouldn't always roll with it. I'm going to tell myself that he only left it in the Watchtower on accident during Terror Incognita, and he usually carried it all the time.

Seems doubtful, though, as he stole it from the Watchtower's trophy room in Terror Incognita.

True, but the reveal of the secret plan happens in every story with a secret plan (or the majority, in case you've got a massive list of stories where it didn't happen.) It happened in the Watchmen, for example, one of the greatest superhero stories ever, if not the greatest. Maybe if we became comic book writers, they would tell us why it's so necessary. Could be a holdover from an era where everything had to be made obvious, and it wasn't obvious enough unless the hero said it. But whatever it is, it's here to stay, like the annoying plot recap at the beginning of the second issue of an arc onward.

Still no reason why Batman had to spell out his plan to a group of shapeshifting telepaths with Superman-like strength and speed levels faster than sound at a tactically crucial moment. He could have explained how he figured it out to Superman or somebody later.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Seems doubtful, though, as he stole it from the Watchtower's trophy room in Terror Incognita.

Look, he just dropped it when he was running past the trophy room on his way to the restroom, the janitor put in the trophy case because he didn't know any better, and you know, that's how it happened.

Still no reason why Batman had to spell out his plan to a group of shapeshifting telepaths with Superman-like strength and speed levels faster than sound at a tactically crucial moment. He could have explained how he figured it out to Superman or somebody later.

Well, yeah. But he was wearing this thing on his belt that nullifies superspeed.

 

[The Question]

Look, he just dropped it when he was running past the trophy room on his way to the restroom, the janitor put in the trophy case because he didn't know any better, and you know, that's how it happened.

Except that it was labled as having belonged to a villain (who's name I forget) who did exist and had headgear that did stuff like that (although his looked stupider, that could have been a later model or just one of the parts in his helmet).

Well, yeah. But he was wearing this thing on his belt that nullifies superspeed.

Oh. Of course. How coul I forget?

 

[Kitsune]

I think I'd have Dickgreyson wake up in bed in a cold sweat, then Flashback to him busting up a drug ring and on of the experimental vats of drugs cracking and spewing out a gas. It would turn out that the whole Jason Todd being back and octotodd would be a drug induced hallucination. The next few issues would focus on Dick sorting out what was hallucination and what was real.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Except that it was labled as having belonged to a villain (who's name I forget) who did exist and had headgear that did stuff like that (although his looked stupider, that could have been a later model or just one of the parts in his helmet).

You're just not playing ball here, are you? Do you want this to make sense, or do you want to hate Grant Morrison?

Oh. Of course. How coul I forget?

Yeah, see, here we go.

 

[The Question]

You're just not playing ball here, are you? Do you want this to make sense, or do you want to hate Grant Morrison?

I don't hate Grant Morrison. I love Grant Morrison. I just think that the scene in question was rather poorly handled on his part.

Anyway, back to my idea:

Okay, I think I've figured out how to fix Lex Luthor's recent suckitude and actually get some good stories out of it. My idea goes as such:

Due to the mind ****s Lex was getting from being near an anti-matter Luthor during IC and Alex Luthor's messing with the fabric of time and space, the post crisis version of Lex and the very briefly revived pre-Crisis Lex folded into one individual. This gave Lex a form of multiple personality disorder. One personality was Alexander Luthor, the rutheless, arrogant, machiavellian super genius we all know and love. While he is manipulative and quite full of himself, he is not without his redeeming qualities and noble motivations, being the kind of villain who wants to "save the world" wether we like it or not. The other personality is Alexei Luthor, the Pre-Crisis Luthor. Unlike Alexander, Alexei is a full blown sociopath, unrelenting in his quest for power and completely disregarding the safety of others, including those he considers his friends and loved ones. This Luthor is the one responsible for the near destruction of Metropolis in "Up Up and Away," and the many deaths that resulted. I'd have a storyline with Luthor battling against his other personality, trying to purge himself of it. Eventually he succeeds, but his reputation is irreparable. As a result, he goes on the run, and begins to resemble some of the more "extreme heroes" in comics such as the members of the Authority in his actions, eventually forming his own team that is similar to The Authority in it's philosophies. Maybe I could work the ghost of Manchester Black in there somewhere.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Anyway, back to my idea:

Why don't they just have this new Luthor actually still be Alexander from Earth 3? Boy, that'd be a surprise and all.

No, but seriously, then Lex could really kill the **** out of him, and not just his face, either. Like run him through a meat grinder. Ain't no crazy warlock ****'ll bring you outta that kind of death. No, sir.

 

[The Question]

Why don't they just have this new Luthor actually still be Alexander from Earth 3? Boy, that'd be a surprise and all.

Because Alexander was still very much a "for the greater good" type. The new Lex is just a sociopath who likes killing things.

 

[droogiedroogie2]

Because Alexander was still very much a "for the greater good" type. The new Lex is just a sociopath who likes killing things.

Alexander did some ****ed-up **** for the greater good. Maybe this somehow works into those new plans he was formulating at the end of IC when Joker messed him in the face.

And maybe getting f'd up by the Joker turned him sociopathic. Who knows? Normally, I'm not down for fifthfiend's "evil twin" idea for getting rid of these new interpretations of characters, but in this case, the evil twin's already there, he's just maybe dead.

 

[GoldenAgeHero]

I'd fix Batman.
I'd start with cleaning up his comics line.
I'd cancel Detective Comics and keep Batman and Establish Gotham Knights

Batman would be more action flavoured. Focusing on bats only.

Gotham KNights would be Batman teaming with his sidekicks. one arc would be with nightwing,the other batgirl,etc. like the animated series.

Batman would be around 35 to 40, grimm but not bitter. Make him a genius like 4 smartest person in the world.
He would not be a brooding selfdestructing character.
Something along TAS only a bit more brutal towards criminals.
Being more a mentor to Tim, a father to Dick and a friend to Alfred.



Note: you can't make bats a myth and give him sidekicks.