If superheroes were real, do you think they would suck?

[Hollis Mason]

I mean, would they be this bunch of crazy people like Watchmen or The Boys? Or could they be actual good superheroes that aren't... you know, insane.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I think Watchmen sums it up pretty neatly. You'd get your Nite Owl II 'boy-scouts' (who probably wouldn't live very long), and your Comedians and Rorschachs who might enjoy the job a little too much - but who'd probably survive longer.

 

[Guts]

Now we are more likely to end up with the fame addicts. Take all the internet celebrities and give them superpowers.

 

[terry78]

I feel like it would be a combination of Watchmen, Brightburn and The Avengers. They'd all be pretty reluctant to constantly go out of their way to help people that wouldn't appreciate it. And some of them would definitely turn. But overall I think they'd do what they need to. You kinda have to think in terms of, if cops had superpowers....and you know how hit and miss that whole thing can be.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Now we are more likely to end up with the fame addicts. Take all the internet celebrities and give them superpowers.

Yeah, they'd all have an agent!

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

No matter the justifications or even efficacy (And I have giant questions on that), regardless, you have inherent with this idea one of vigilante justice and outside of legitimate authority action beholden to no one's oversight.

This is all side stepped because, well... It's fiction. Look at TDK. People laud it for its supposed depth or social commentary but it doesn't say anything really of value because Nolan's realism in the end still bends to a super heroic characterization of Batman. It's of no help in discussing the issues at play because the story is bereft of real humanity, warts and all. Of course we can trust Batman to do the right thing as a fiction. In the real world people are not going to necessarily live up to those expectations. And in the real world situations will not play out to mostly positive outcomes either.


I will always bring this up...

There was a very widespread group in our history that at one time were quite certain of their righteousness. They took justice into their hands as they saw fit in opposition to what in their view was the corruption and decadence of society and government. They did so often with public support in the areas they operated in. In their minds they were "Avengers" ensuring peace and prosperity for the citizens and rooting out the evil in the world. They did so while using secrecy, costumes, and hiding their identities while in action. While not an official adjunct of the law enforcement establishment they were often also granted a wide berth by local police forces who tacitly approved of their actions and would even aide them from time to time.


Sounds like an army of Batman, right?


I'm referring of course to the Klu Klux Klan.


Super heroes are a magnificent fiction providing a wonderful mythological space in the imagination.


But we fans need to keep in mind that they need to stay there, in the imagination, and that the world is far more complex and nuanced than the simplicity allowed in fictions where the answer to most problems is righteous violence enacted by an individual.

 

[jmc]

If Superman actually existed it would be ****ing terrifying. I don't care how good Martha and Jonathan were as parents, that person merely existing would genuinely be a threat to us all.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

If Superman actually existed it would be ****ing terrifying. I don't care how good Martha and Jonathan were as parents, that person merely existing would genuinely be a threat to us all.

Zack??

 

[jmc]

His films sucked but his realistic interpretation is correct. Superman would be a terrible thing for humanity.

 

[Guts]

Superman himself wouldn't be terrible. Just that people would irrationally fear him.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Superman himself wouldn't be terrible. Just that people would irrationally fear him.

You know I actually very much like MOS/BVS but... I would say a being like Superman alone would be an issue ON TOP of the reaction of the populace. Let's just say there's a lot of assumptions on many as to how a super hero like Superman would react to the real world were he a real person.

Cuz that's the issue. The character of super powered beings would have to reckon with reality vs. fantasy. The fantasy of super heroes means a limit on actual human reactions and feelings.

 

[jmc]

Yeah, the fantasy is one thing, the reality is another.

 

[Lighthouse]

You know I actually very much like MOS/BVS but... I would say a being like Superman alone would be an issue ON TOP of the reaction of the populace. Let's just say there's a lot of assumptions on many as to how a super hero like Superman would react to the real world were he a real person.

Cuz that's the issue. The character of super powered beings would have to reckon with reality vs. fantasy. The fantasy of super heroes means a limit on actual human reactions and feelings.

Not to mention if these beings had to live with the laws of physics, many superpowers would be a nightmare. Superman and other strong characters really would be living in a world made of cardboard. The slightest touch could shatter bones and crumble buildings.

 

[Steyin]

If I ever get powers, more so like Dragon Ball Z/Super type, I'm blowing up the planet.

 

[terry78]

Why did you think we have you on active watch?

 

[jmc]

I think in truth anybody who were to be given god like powers would eventually be corrupted by them.

 

[Flash525]

Are we talking specifically about superheroes, or the likes of vigilantes too? Characters such as Batman, Daredevil and the Green Arrow hold both those titles.

Ultimately, I think they'd (for the most part) all be human anyway, and people have the potential to be inherently good, inherently evil, or somewhere in between. Superheroes would be no different in that context; you've have powered individuals who'd go out of their way and want to help, you'd have powered individuals that would use their powers when it suited, or when it was essential, and then you'd have those powered individuals that are corrupt, and use their abilities for evil; that's why these comics have supervillains too.

I don't think superpowers would completely make super people good or bad; they'd all be people at the end of the day, and likely battling their own struggles through life. It's not quite my belief, but some people consider certain celebrities to be superheroes (though in a very different context), and we only need to look at how diverse celebrities can be.

Of course, there'd then be expectations of all of them; if they can help, should they? Should superheroes (like the Avengers or Justice League) be expected to put their lives on the line just because they're able? If aliens were to be among these heroes, would old Donald want to build a wall (or suit of armour) around the Earth too? They'd surely be immigrants, or asylum seekers?

There's a lot of pressure (at least in the sense of opinions, not action) that people of wealth should be doing more to help the planet, and third world countries as it is, at least where convenient. Would that same sense be emulated against superheroes?

Interesting thought/discussion though @Hollis Mason

 

[Flash525]

Not to mention if these beings had to live with the laws of physics, many superpowers would be a nightmare. Superman and other strong characters really would be living in a world made of cardboard. The slightest touch could shatter bones and crumble buildings.

Wouldn't it depend on how powers worked though? I mean, take enhanced strength for example; we all have strength, and we know say, when pushing or pulling something (that's within our ability) how hard to push or pull, so unless Superman lost his temper, he'd surely know how much strength to use?

I think in truth anybody who were to be given god like powers would eventually be corrupted by them.

Why do you say this? Power (and money) doesn't always corrupt. I know (of) many millionaires who are quite happy in their cottage on the hillside rather than mansion next to a beach, and are quite content going about their own business rather than imposing on others. I imagine, per my above post, it'll be relevant to the person of power how they'd proceed to use it.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

There's way more than basic morality at play. It's not just questions of "good people" vs "bad people".

Super heroes take the law into their own hand and the super powered ones have the muscle to back their decision up. Now... What if they do something they think is good, on the surface IS good, but in a wider context ends up being a terrible decison? Now something that needed the might and infrastructure of a nation state is in the hands of an individual who can make decisons at a far faster rate. No internal debate, no questions of logistics, much few limits. And who is to say, even if there's a moral basis, that it's the right call in the first place? Put the power of a Green Lantern, a Thor or a Superman in the hands of say... A fundamentalist Christian. Say they decide, "I'm not going to kill anyone but I've decided that I will esnure that abortion providers cannot exist or operate in the borders of the U.S.A." As stated, they don't harm anyone but a GL/Supes/Thor level powered being could probably pull that off to a large extent. Is it the "right" thing? Lots would say yes. Just as many would probably say no. Thing is, no one had a vote on it. An individual made the call for everyone else. And that's just talking about one nation. What if they decided to impliment their vision world wide?

I do think that these thought experiments have lots of rabbit holes to go down when parsing the concept of super powers out though. I mean... Would a being with Superman level strength actually be able to not destroy every thing they touched? It's a question of relative durability and strength. If you are more durable with epic strenght then it might come down to not actually being able to do anything particulalry useful. If you could produce the forces necessary to shatter steel and concrete with your body, then yes, I suppose suddenly you have to not be KINDA careful, you have to excercise control of the highest precision at every waking moment of your life, you might be a danger to all around you just walking around. You say we know how to control ourselve to not be destructive but in fact we live in a wordl where most objects do have greater durability than us mere humans even when we go all out with our physical strength. It's why we as a species developed tools and craftsmanship in the first place. Now, imagine that every thing in the world you go throug is a mix of ice, styrofoam and paper mache'. That's what makes up every car, building and yes, people in comparison to you. It's inevitable, even not trying, that you'll break a lot of ****.


Then there's how physics really works as compared to how we see them in the comics and movies. Superman can't actually lift up a boat or a house the way we see all the time. He could have the ability to press giant amounts of weight, but the physics of how a ship or a house behave is another story. He couldn't actually lift them the way we see always cuz the object itself is not built to withstand all it's weight focuse on the hand sized surface area Superman would put on it trying to lift it. They'd break apart, disintegrate, before he got a chance to fly off with them.

I remember a story in some Indie comic, I can't name it right now... I wanna say it was called Common Grounds. In it a Flash styled super speedster recounts how useless he feels and how messed up his life is. He's haunted by how he's not be as effective as he'd hoped. He tried to save a child buried in a mine but his speed made him more a threat to collapsing the whole thing on the kid than actually being able to do something. He ended up mostly sitting on the sidelines and getting the first responders coffee. He then talks about how his perception is so radically different than others that he has a hard time doing anythinn normal. He can't even enjoy sex because as with any activity it seems to happen in slow motion.

Now, in these thought experiements you can write alot of that off. Say the beings do have the level of control and finesse of the comics... You still have the real world physics of the objects and people around them to contend with.

 

[jmc]

Why do you say this? Power (and money) doesn't always corrupt. I know (of) many millionaires who are quite happy in their cottage on the hillside rather than mansion next to a beach, and are quite content going about their own business rather than imposing on others. I imagine, per my above post, it'll be relevant to the person of power how they'd proceed to use it.

Because I think there's a level of seduction in god like powers that money cannot induce. Lets say you have Superman like powers. These powers would essentially make you not only unstoppable but be able to control things in a way money cannot. The fear that level of power would bring would be off the charts. It's all well and good to say you'd just use the powers for good, but what happens when someone objects to what you're doing or your methods or don't agree with your interpretation of what's good? What makes your interpretation correct? What can they do about it? Just trust you? Why on earth should anybody trust someone with that level of power? You are above every law of every land with no accountability. We all like to think we have good moral character, that we would never cross certain lines, but the truth we are more than capable of crossing those lines, even unintentionally.

 

[Mandon Knight]

They do exist, it's just not all of them wear capes.....

 

[Lighthouse]

There's way more than basic morality at play. It's not just questions of "good people" vs "bad people".

Super heroes take the law into their own hand and the super powered ones have the muscle to back their decision up. Now... What if they do something they think is good, on the surface IS good, but in a wider context ends up being a terrible decison? Now something that needed the might and infrastructure of a nation state is in the hands of an individual who can make decisons at a far faster rate. No internal debate, no questions of logistics, much few limits. And who is to say, even if there's a moral basis, that it's the right call in the first place? Put the power of a Green Lantern, a Thor or a Superman in the hands of say... A fundamentalist Christian. Say they decide, "I'm not going to kill anyone but I've decided that I will esnure that abortion providers cannot exist or operate in the borders of the U.S.A." As stated, they don't harm anyone but a GL/Supes/Thor level powered being could probably pull that off to a large extent. Is it the "right" thing? Lots would say yes. Just as many would probably say no. Thing is, no one had a vote on it. An individual made the call for everyone else. And that's just talking about one nation. What if they decided to impliment their vision world wide?

I do think that these thought experiments have lots of rabbit holes to go down when parsing the concept of super powers out though. I mean... Would a being with Superman level strength actually be able to not destroy every thing they touched? It's a question of relative durability and strength. If you are more durable with epic strenght then it might come down to not actually being able to do anything particulalry useful. If you could produce the forces necessary to shatter steel and concrete with your body, then yes, I suppose suddenly you have to not be KINDA careful, you have to excercise control of the highest precision at every waking moment of your life, you might be a danger to all around you just walking around. You say we know how to control ourselve to not be destructive but in fact we live in a wordl where most objects do have greater durability than us mere humans even when we go all out with our physical strength. It's why we as a species developed tools and craftsmanship in the first place. Now, imagine that every thing in the world you go throug is a mix of ice, styrofoam and paper mache'. That's what makes up every car, building and yes, people in comparison to you. It's inevitable, even not trying, that you'll break a lot of ****.


Then there's how physics really works as compared to how we see them in the comics and movies. Superman can't actually lift up a boat or a house the way we see all the time. He could have the ability to press giant amounts of weight, but the physics of how a ship or a house behave is another story. He couldn't actually lift them the way we see always cuz the object itself is not built to withstand all it's weight focuse on the hand sized surface area Superman would put on it trying to lift it. They'd break apart, disintegrate, before he got a chance to fly off with them.

I remember a story in some Indie comic, I can't name it right now... I wanna say it was called Common Grounds. In it a Flash styled super speedster recounts how useless he feels and how messed up his life is. He's haunted by how he's not be as effective as he'd hoped. He tried to save a child buried in a mine but his speed made him more a threat to collapsing the whole thing on the kid than actually being able to do something. He ended up mostly sitting on the sidelines and getting the first responders coffee. He then talks about how his perception is so radically different than others that he has a hard time doing anythinn normal. He can't even enjoy sex because as with any activity it seems to happen in slow motion.

Now, in these thought experiements you can write alot of that off. Say the beings do have the level of control and finesse of the comics... You still have the real world physics of the objects and people around them to contend with.