The Dark Knight I'm losing faith in Nolan

[Eros]

I do have a feeling, The Dark Knight will be moe Chris Nolans take on Batman, then a actual Batman Begins sequel. Nolan got his brother to write the screenplay, and he ofcourse he is directing. also the title of the sequel is "The Dark Knight" theirs no Batman in the title at all, the title obviously is saying this movie is not going to be Like a Batman comic book story, But Nolans and his brothers idea of Batmans "real" world. Whether "The Dark Knight" will be faithful to the batman world, or a even more "Nolish" Take on the characters is yet to see. I can only assume in this movie, the Batman and his characters will be very very different.

 

[XCharlieX]

the title of the sequel is "The Dark Knight" theirs no Batman in the title at all, the title obviously is saying this movie is not going to be Like a Batman comic book story, But Nolans and his brothers idea of Batmans "real" world.

Hopefully not too diferent from the first one is all i care about. I feel continuity should be done this time around. The guy seems to have a level head so i dont think he'll do something over the top artsy like Burtons Returns.

 

[kenellard]

I remember posting a while ago about the fact that after the honeymoon period, when fans on here would stop banging on along the lines of "OMFG! best film ever!!!" and "it should win best movie at the oscars!" and actually begin to analyse Begins for what it is. Of course I got flamed for it, having made the post around 7 months ago, but sure enough, here we are, many of us starting to feel that this film isn't exactly "the second coming", so to speak.

I've been unable, through countless viewings of Begins to get my head around why it's held in such high reguard, and while I can understand some of the elements which make it popular with people, I feel it has a lot to do with the fans need to have batman "taken seriously", which I am all for, just not the to the ridiculous extent which Begins took it to. To put it in a nutshell I'll say this; Batman does not fit in Nolan's world.

 

[Mysterio]

Sometimes I wonder about some of the things he does.

hey! have you heard? Nolan is bringing the nipple suits back!!!!

 

[XCharlieX]

Batman does not fit in Nolan's world.

IMHO, batman fits like a glove in nolans world heh. The guys got skills.

 

[Mysterio]

I've been unable, through countless viewings of Begins to get my head around why it's held in such high reguard, and while I can understand some of the elements which make it popular with people, I feel it has a lot to do with the fans need to have batman "taken seriously", which I am all for, just not the to the ridiculous extent which Begins took it to. To put it in a nutshell I'll say this; Batman does not fit in Nolan's world.

because Nolan got the tone right, and there was no element of camp. the attitude toward the subject matter was treated much differently by Nolan than it had been by previous directors. people want to see the dark side of Batman - the dark knight. there is no way anyone can possibly believe that Keaton's, Kilmer's, or Clooney's character was driven. with Bale, his drive and motivation was believable. what in the world do you think was ridiculous about Nolan's vision? it's not as if some aircraft blew up and Batman skysurfed back to earth on the door of the craft.

 

[Cinemaman]

Funny thing, Nolan made great job and returned the whole franchise to life.

Yes, he made it a bit too realistical, but it is his vision, which now looks excellent for Batman.

I cant understand some fans, who say that they dont want Batman to be too realistical.

As I think, fans wanted Batman to be realistical 10 years ago and now they changed their mind.

When everything is going right, they dont like it. When everything is going wrong, they again don't like it. So I think fans are very strange critics.

 

[Octoberist]

I remember posting a while ago about the fact that after the honeymoon period, when fans on here would stop banging on along the lines of "OMFG! best film ever!!!" and "it should win best movie at the oscars!" and actually begin to analyse Begins for what it is. Of course I got flamed for it, having made the post around 7 months ago, but sure enough, here we are, many of us starting to feel that this film isn't exactly "the second coming", so to speak.

I've been unable, through countless viewings of Begins to get my head around why it's held in such high reguard, and while I can understand some of the elements which make it popular with people, I feel it has a lot to do with the fans need to have batman "taken seriously", which I am all for, just not the to the ridiculous extent which Begins took it to. To put it in a nutshell I'll say this; Batman does not fit in Nolan's world.

You may not like Batman Begins. And that's fine. But you're making as there's a big backlash going on, and there isn't. And it feels like you're thinking "Finally, they're coming to their sense". And that's not the case.

And to say the 'ridiculous extent' to make Batman serious again is ill-fated is lame because I think you're over-exarrating the so-called 'realism'. Realism which by the way nobody really talks about in the real world because it's not that noticable.

 

[Octoberist]

Funny thing, Nolan made great job and returned the whole franchise to life.

Yeas, he made it a bit too realistical, but it is his vision, which now looks excellent for Batman.

I cant understand some fans, who say that they dont want Batman to be too realistical. As I think, fans wanted Batman to be realistical 10 years ago and now they changed their mind. When everything is going right, they dont like it. When everuthing is going wrong, they again don't like it. So I think fans are very strange critics.

and you...I don't know if 'realistical' is even a real word.

 

[kenellard]

and you...I don't know if 'realistical' is even a real word.

and you.... over exarrarating am I?

anyway, My point is that people are affraid, as I am, of the series turning to crap again, this time I'm affraid it may go to the opposite extreme, instead of being extremely campy and lame, the sequels could become extremely dreary and unexciting, which is also lame

 

[Octoberist]

there's too much invested into this franchise to screw it up again. However, it is common knowledge that Hollywood doesn't learn from their mistakes.

I don't know if it'll be dreary but we'll see. I think that Jonathan Nolan is a good writer, moreso than Goyer. The benefit of Goyer is that he has comic knowledge. So combining the two, along with Chris is a good think in my book.

And I have a feeling that Jon and David are there to object any of Chris' realism aspect, if any. It's all about checks and balances.

 

[Cinemaman]

I doubt sequel will be boring. In TDK, there will be more stuff about Gang War, so we will see more Batman and more action with Joker.

But I aslo think there will be excellent story and enough twists at the end of movie.

ANd Joker will have connection with one of them. He is very important, effective and mysterious character, and that sounds very intersting for general movie goer.

 

[kenellard]

because Nolan got the tone right, and there was no element of camp. the attitude toward the subject matter was treated much differently by Nolan than it had been by previous directors. people want to see the dark side of Batman - the dark knight. there is no way anyone can possibly believe that Keaton's, Kilmer's, or Clooney's character was driven. with Bale, his drive and motivation was believable. what in the world do you think was ridiculous about Nolan's vision? it's not as if some aircraft blew up and Batman skysurfed back to earth on the door of the craft.

I'm in no way saying I want another Batman & Robin, campy is a word which is being thrown around too often, and it is not a word immediately synonimous with "fun" and "excitement", which is partly what I want in a superhero movie.

 

[Cinemaman]

there's too much invested into this franchise to screw it up again. However, it is common knowledge that Hollywood doesn't learn from their mistakes.

I don't know if it'll be dreary but we'll see. I think that Jonathan Nolan is a good writer, moreso than Goyer. The benefit of Goyer is that he has comic knowledge. So combining the two, along with Chris is a good think in my book.

And I have a feeling that Jon and David are there to object any of Chris' realism aspect, if any. It's all about checks and balances.

Goyer (comics)+Jon (realism)=Nolan's vision on script, right?

 

[Mysterio]

I'm in no way saying I want another Batman & Robin, campy is a word which is being thrown around too often, and it is not a word immediately synonimous with "fun" and "excitement", which is partly what I want in a superhero movie.

can't help you with that then, but i certainly had fun and was excited watching Batman Begins.

 

[XCharlieX]

Hmm Davis S Goyer wrote this film called death warrant with van damme. It wasnt that good overall, so i suppose hes better at comic characters.

That film had more potential than they wrote it with eh.

 

[kenellard]

can't help you with that then, but i certainly had fun and was excited watching Batman Begins.

I wasn't reffering to begins with that post, I was saying that the word camp is being used to describe anything different from the tone of begins, as in I want to see some more whizz-bang entertainment in the sequel, but to many that means I want batman to be "campy". My main dissapointment with begins is, if you remove all the batman scenes, all you have is a half assed psychodrama, with barely fleshed out characters (appart from Bruce) and little movement story-wise. That's why I think Nolan should veer away slightly from the tone of begins, and let bats do his thing, with a little style this time.

For example (not trying to make this a burton/nolan argument) the whole murder of bruces parents thing works much better in B89 for this reason; with little screentime available to properly flesh out the characters of thomas and Martha, Burton just plays it simple, it works, and doesn't waste nearly 15 minutes of screentime trying to make us care about these people, only to have them murdered. I feel Nolan tried too hard to squeeze in the drama aspect, with the entire film suffering for it

 

[Castlewood]

The way I look at it...

We trusted Tim Burton after Batman, and then Batman Returns happened.
We trusted Joel Schumacher after Batman Forever, and then Batman and Robin happened.

Now, we trust Chris Nolan wholeheartedly after Batman Begins, and then.....*won't know until The Dark knight comes out*

I'm saying.....there's a definite PATTERN here. I shall remain skeptical until proven otherwise.

 

[Cinemaman]

The way I look at it...

We trusted Tim Burton after Batman, and then Batman Returns happened.
We trusted Joel Schumacher after Batman Forever, and then Batman and Robin happened.

Now, we trust Chris Nolan wholeheartedly after Batman Begins, and then.....*won't know until The Dark knight comes out*

I'm saying.....there's a definite PATTERN here. I shall remain skeptical until proven otherwise.

If you want to know, BR was just as good movie as B89 was.

And I doubt there were people, who trusted Shumacher after so bad movie as BF.

And don't forget two things:

1) Batman Begins is the new movie and Nolan is going to make the trilogy.

2) Nolan was that guy who returned Batman again to life and made great jobe with this.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

I dunno about 80. The original members of the Justice League. Some Green Lanterns. The Bat family. It's probably 15-20 or less.

And as for Spidey in the comics...a Civil War will do that.

AND it's really about WHO knows in the movies. Batman seems to let disposable characters find out while Spider-Man has held off on letting MAJOR characters in ALL the films know.

Well, there's the extended Bat-family.......all three Robins, Alfred, the two Batgirl's, then there's the JLA, and some viliians Ra's Bane, the Riddler and Talia, there's a few ex-girlfriends.....Silver knows, I think. Shondra Kinsolving knows too, I believe. Sasha, who works for Checkmate knows. Catwoman knows.

Alot of people know. Too many if you think Bruce's love interest knowing is one too many, so don't look at the comics if that one bothers you. Your lose your hair and go gray with the people that know in the comics.

And yeah, Civil War.....but still, it's worth mentioning. I mean, even in ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN, alot of people know too, don't they?

You know what I'm losing faith in? Pants.

I mean seriously, WTF?

Hmmmm. I never thought of it like that, man.

I lost faith in underwear like 5 years ago. Been free-fallin' ever since man. A free man, fo sho.

Funny thing, Nolan made great job and returned the whole franchise to life.

Yes, he made it a bit too realistical, but it is his vision, which now looks excellent for Batman.

I cant understand some fans, who say that they dont want Batman to be too realistical.

As I think, fans wanted Batman to be realistical 10 years ago and now they changed their mind.

When everything is going right, they dont like it. When everything is going wrong, they again don't like it. So I think fans are very strange critics.

Yup. You cannot satisfy everyone, b/c they'll always find something to turn on. ALWAYS.

Funny thing, the realism for me....it's about Explaining ****. I mean, I'm not a goddamn child....tell me hwo he operates, or otherwise....it's just a kiddie film. I mean, where'd he get the rubber nipples suit? What....? Alfred made it? Okay....how? What...? It doesn't matter. Oh okay. Wait, where'd he get the car? What, he's rich just accept it? Okay.....but when did it become a Snowmobile? Oh, right.....doesn't matter.....right.

See, so realism can just be another way of aiming it towards adults, ya know? Explaining things rathert than telling us, as if we're mildly ******ed children, that "Oh, he JUST does because he's Batman. That's all you need to know". Man, **** that.

 

[XCharlieX]

Yup. You cannot satisfy everyone, b/c they'll always find something to turn on. ALWAYS.

Ill tag on here also. There is a point where folks who complain cant really be followed up because the guy made something solid and professional. At a certain point you just have to know you made something special. Its all instinct because someone will complain about something and try to bring it down, not getting what it is.

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Yeah. Take this thread, for example. Where's the reason, where's the base?

Oh, he told Rachel is was Batman?

That's all? Man......tons of biatches know he's Batman in the comics....

 

[Anita18]

For example (not trying to make this a burton/nolan argument) the whole murder of bruces parents thing works much better in B89 for this reason; with little screentime available to properly flesh out the characters of thomas and Martha, Burton just plays it simple, it works, and doesn't waste nearly 15 minutes of screentime trying to make us care about these people, only to have them murdered. I feel Nolan tried too hard to squeeze in the drama aspect, with the entire film suffering for it

Funny, I felt I was being manipulated with B89's murder scene. Admittedly, I may be biased - I despise slow-motion. Every time I see something in slow-motion, my cheese-o-meter turns on and I think, "Oh, they're trying it milk my emotions. *yawn*" I really do tune out by that point.

Something that happens fast - like the Wayne murders in BB - is the kind of thing that gets me. One second they're alive, and the next, they're not. Young Bruce had yet to fully grasp what had happened, and then the next thing he knows, his father is saying his last words to him. It's probably on the realistic side than some people care (show me a real-life scenario where death is a drawn-out, glorious act ), but it works for me. Apparently B89 worked better for you. Different strokes for different folks.

 

[The Batman]

Yeah. Take this thread, for example. Where's the reason, where's the base?

Oh, he told Rachel is was Batman?

That's all? Man......tons of biatches know he's Batman in the comics....

Yeah. You're B*tvhing bout his best friend in the movieverse knowing, but you can allow the entire freaking JLA, the league of assassins, Checkmate, and god knows who else to know who he is?

 

[ChrisBaleBatman]

Exactly, man.

I mean, it's almost an obscene amount of people that know in the comics. And, the League of Assassins might not be such a problem....being servants of Ra's and all.....they must be sworn to secrecy....but, the others? Seriously, I have no problem with Rachel knowing.

And, I never had a problem with Vickie, Chase, or Selina knowing either.

The only problem I had was with Chase and Vickie....where we would get the stupid happy ending. That's what bothered me more, actually.