Invincible

[Anubis]

When you think about it, being against the nudity but okay with the gore makes you a bit of a sick f**k.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Wondering in here at perhaps the wrong time, but is Invincible really that violent? I knew the fight scenes got rough, but do they show intestines being thrown out, and people being ripped apart?

 

[Tron Bonne]

Geez, I knew the series had some pretty vicious fights, but I didn't know it was that graphic. I thought the series was a throw back to Silver Age-ish fun. That doesn't sound fun at all

 

[Tron Bonne]

I don't know, I haven't read any of Invincible. I was just under the impression, outside some overly violent/bloody fights, the comic was more...I don't know tame or something

 

[Tron Bonne]

Lulz, not even that much. I've not read a single issue of Invincible, I just kind of came in during the naked Eve stuff and saw people talking about all the ultra violence and was a little surprised

 

[Dread]

I've read INVINCIBLE via HC'S, TPB's and single issues. It isn't ALWAYS "this violent", but it does have it's moments. Obviously before issue #60, the comic wasn't that graphic for, oh, at least 1-2 years. The tensions and emotions change around; some issues are rated R, others could maybe pass for PG. The mood shifts, kind of like life. Some moments are horrid and others are comedic gold.

I will say it is a slice of our Judeo-Christian foundations when nudity or "taking the lord's name in vain" (you won't believe how much hate-mail Kirkman gets from people irritated that he has characters use "Jesus" as an exclamation) gets people more in a twist than violence. A PG-13 can have all sorts of horrible violence, but one bare breast and it is R...instantly. Not that I am a fiend for full frontal, but just noting the dynamic. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, sex is a natural act; everyone will have sex at least once in their life. Violence, though, isn't as natural; not everyone will be a victim or a perpetrator of violence. Most people experience violence through what is reported or what is fictionalized; basically, they are told about it. It is not as inevitable that you will see a man impaled as you will see a pair of genitals from the opposite sex. Yet in the world of censorship fiction, it is the reverse. It is strange.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Strange indeed, some of the graphic violence nowadays scares the hell out of me.

 

[Spike_x1]

I think that it would be another thing altogether if the extremes of the violent content were still implied off-panel as it used to be most of the time, like when Mark beat in Levy's skull. When that happened we didn't really see anything except blood splashing around to imply the horrific injuries. Lately, though, Kirkman seems to have pretty much given up on any sense of subtlety. If he wants the fights to be intense, he can accomplish that without having to tell Ottley to draw every single detail.

If Kirkman wrote Shrinking Ray's death now, for example, I wouldn't be surprised if we got to see tiny bloody chunks of meat in an extreme close-up of Komodo Dragon's mouth as he chewed him up, instead of the more simple and subtle way that it was done, where Komodo just swallowed him and was done with it.

 

[Anubis]

Didn't Ray survive that?

 

[Spike_x1]

That's what a lot of people thought, based on the fact that there was no chewing, but Kirkman kept insisting pretty vehemently that Ray really did die. Presumably, he thought that he didn't need to drive the point home any further by including crunchy chewy sound effects.

 

[Dread]

Personally I don't mind the gore in INVINCIBLE sometimes, but then again I am a guy who can be a sucker for a fight scene.

 

[Anubis]

The thing about Invincible is, sometimes, the ultra violence, it comes outta nowhere. I remember how floored I was by the events of issue 7 when I first saw them. I was like, holy s**t! Did that just happen?!?

 

[Spike_x1]

See, sometimes a little gore helps put an end to speculation.

As if that would make death stick in comics.

 

[Andy C.]

The thing about Invincible is, sometimes, the ultra violence, it comes outta nowhere. I remember how floored I was by the events of issue 7 when I first saw them. I was like, holy s**t! Did that just happen?!?

Yeah, and to me, that's what made it so effective. You're reading a normal scene or making your way through a normal fight and then SPLAT! Someone gets their head caved in or torn in half. Which kind of makes sense when you think about what would happen if a bunch of people with varying degrees of super-strength got into it. It was a shocking and poignant exclamation point as to what's really at stake in that sort of situation.

The sheer brutality of it lately, though, just doesn't have the same sting to it, despite being more graphic than usual. Maybe it's because the mood of all the Invincible War Aftermath stuff is so bleak that the sort of blood and guts displayed just feels like par for the course.

 

[Dread]

The thing about Invincible is, sometimes, the ultra violence, it comes outta nowhere. I remember how floored I was by the events of issue 7 when I first saw them. I was like, holy s**t! Did that just happen?!?

That's probably the point.

 

[ihateusernames]

I know what you guys are talking about here, it was a very... gory... issue.
But I can't help but feel it was justified. Kirkman shown in this issue just how messed up the Viltrimtes can be. Also, was this not the first time Mark has defeated one of these guys? every other time he's been bailed out or something, and not to mention he thought Eve had been killed by the guy, his arm was broken, and his hand was crushed.

I don't know, I don't care about gore, if it's there, fine, so long as it's done well, which is how I felt about this issue. It showed how far Mark had to go with one, imagin the rest of them?

Oh, and Eve's boobs? I couldn't give a crap if they where thrown in, it's not something I've really thought about.

 

[JackBauer]

Problem is, Kirkman's been falling back on gore for shock value so much that it's lost the "holy s#|t!" appeal it had in issue 7. It's so overdone by now that it feels like gore for gore's sake.

 

[Spike_x1]

Also, is anyone else feeling cheated for spending money on the book when there's been so little dialogue and plot throughout Conquest? It literally took me about two minutes to go through the last issue, and that was when I was trying to take my time and enjoy Ottley's art while reading.

 

[imdaly]

Also, is anyone else feeling cheated for spending money on the book when there's been so little dialogue and plot throughout Conquest? It literally took me about two minutes to go through the last issue, and that was when I was trying to take my time and enjoy Ottley's art while reading.

Straight from the start of the letter's page in Invincible #62:

 

[Kahoot]

Since the fight is made up of stills they don't have as much impact as a TV/movie would have with a long fight. After half an issue on non-stop fighting with no dialogue it just gets samey and boring.

 

[Dread]

I'm a sucker for a good action sequence. So long as it is paced well and exciting, I don't mind if there is little dialogue. Frankly, one of the annoying things about American comics is that the 22 page a month format sometimes nixes a solid battle. You can spend 5 issues building a threat and them maybe 10 pages of issue six defeating it. It can feel anti-climatic. Conquest, at least, was a grueling super-battle. I mean, c'mon; if, say, Superman were fighting someone strong enough to challenge him, it would realistically take a few issues of pounding. That was the point to this issue, to show that the Viltrumites are a massive threat even if there "less than 50 left in the universe" if even ONE can endanger the entire planet. Plus, this was the only time Mark fought one without his father at his back. Eve and Oliver helped at critical junctures, but basically it was all Mark in the end.

I don't want gore in every issue, but I don't mind it in a few. I mean, doesn't X-FORCE have quite a few bloodbaths per issue themselves?

 

[Spike_x1]

Since the fight is made up of stills they don't have as much impact as a TV/movie would have with a long fight. After half an issue on non-stop fighting with no dialogue it just gets samey and boring.

Exactly; and this went on for, what, almost four issues? And how much dialogue and story advancement did we get? Maybe enough for roughly a little more than one issue? I honestly did take the time to enjoy the artwork as I "read" the latest one, but it still only took me something like three minutes to get through it.

I can handle long, grueling fight scenes in comics, but there comes a point when you've got to say "alright, I get it. The fight's brutal. Cool, but can we get some more of that all but forgotten plot at some point, please?" Is showing such a long drawn out battle realistic? Sure, I can see the logic in saying that. Is it good storytelling? Not really.

 

[HR-PUFF&STUFF]

Exactly; and this went on for, what, almost four issues? And how much dialogue and story advancement did we get? Maybe enough for roughly a little more than one issue? I honestly did take the time to enjoy the artwork as I "read" the latest one, but it still only took me something like three minutes to get through it.

I can handle long, grueling fight scenes in comics, but there comes a point when you've got to say "alright, I get it. The fight's brutal. Cool, but can we get some more of that all but forgotten plot at some point, please?" Is showing such a long drawn out battle realistic? Sure, I can see the logic in saying that. Is it good storytelling? Not really.

it was three issues, but now that its done we can move on with the story. and the long multi-issue fight arc worked for superman when he fought doomsday.

 

[Spike_x1]

Except the fight with Doomsday had other stuff going on at the same time that they were fighting. It wasn't just page after page, issue after issue of straight up fighting. We saw the other residents of Metropolis and members of the Justice League, and their reactions to what was going on, which actually moved the narrative along, instead of what Invincible did where the narrative and plot practically ground to a halt. Sure, we saw non-fighting things like Eve's parents, Deb, etc, for a couple panels here and there, but they never really did anything that furthered any sort of development. The most advancement in the story that was contributed by an outside character was Eve's role and the revelation of what her powers can do. In the Doomsday fight, on the other hand, we got to see a variety of things other than just Superman vs. DD or scattered character cameos, such as Maxima kicking ass and showing why she was an awesome character, the kid whose view of Superman changed when Big Blue rescued his family, the whole city reacting to Metropolis being decimated (ie: Lois and Jimmy going out to cover the story, Lex and Supergirl trying to do something about it, etc).

 

[BigBlue1055]

So the next two issues are going to be about Nolan and Allen, right? Those outta be interesting.

Also, after the events of #55, I thought this would be a good chance to go back and reread the entire series. One thing that I noticed that I'm not sure if many have picked up on, but in the issue where Mark and Nolan fight the Viltrumite on Nolan's new bug-world, one of the Viltrumites there to take down Nolan and Mark looks a lot like the all-flesh version of Conquest. Check it out. I wonder if Kirkman did that intentionally.