Is Batman a good hero?

[November Rain]

i think batman acts more of an inspiration as to what a single person can do

unfortunately, the majority of gotham citizens are either insane, bought or scared.

saying this though, i believe brue wayne could have done more to change gotham more than batman ever can/will.

 

[dre38w]

@Topic
the question really is how you would interprate batman or how you want to see him. my batman is no hero, at all. i like the term that alan moore used in watchman, "masked avanger" very much. that's how i see batman. my batman is a masked vigilante who is working outside of the law, who has deep emotional und psychological problems and who only acts because of his own taste of vengeance and salvation.

so, "for me", batman is no hero. but there are so many batman storylines that take a different look on batman, that there is no definitive way to interpret batman. that's what makes him so interesting and so much fun to write. you see batman as a superhero? go forward and make a superhero out of him. you want batman to be a masked lunatic? here you are. batman has got over the years so many interesting comicbook concepts and interpretations. to ask if he is a good hero or not doesn't make very much sense, there is a comic book for every taste and look on the dark knight.

I totally agree with you. It depends on the writer. It depends on what kind of Batman is built. What kind of Gotham is built. What kind of criminals are built. MY version of Batman is totally different than any commercial comic. I break so many rules of the Batman universe. So it depends on who's interpreting him.

But, Batman in general IS making an impact. Even if the impact is the opposite of good. BECAUSE of Batman crime is there. The criminals rise against him. Hence Batman's main villains. Joker, Scarecrow, etc. But Batman is at a never ending battle with crime. Cause without crime there is no Batman. Thus no more comics. Batman does make difference. He inspires some. He frightens some by just existing. He gets shun by some. He causes crime by trying to stop crime. He makes a dent but the dent is not always good.

 

[TruerToTheCore]

If he wanted to make a real difference he'd open hospitals, refurbish schools, and fund prevention programs for children and adolescents. Maybe even start a movement for workers' rights to alleviate the exploitation of the poor by the super-rich like himself.:

he does.

 

[The Batman]

he does.

shhhh...if he dosent know about the wayne foundation by now, he dosent deserve to have it explained to him...

 

[Jorriss]

This is a fair point. Batman plays at being a vigilante by mopping up street crime and the occasional costumed lunatic but does nothing to address the causes of his community's sickness.

I guess that's one thing I liked more about TDK than the comics, he had a clear focus on what he was going to do to stop crime. He was systematically bringing down the mob, of course, that was slowed with the Joker around /shrug

 

[sty]

shhhh...if he dosent know about the wayne foundation by now, he dosent deserve to have it explained to him...

Bertolt Brecht wrote, "It is easier to rob by setting up a bank than by holding up a bank clerk." (I favour the translation, "What is the robbing of a bank compared to its founding," but whatever.)

Bruce Wayne, like a lot of the elite wealthy, engages in pet charities. How did he get the money, though, to play at being philanthropic? By exploiting the poor and by pushing other people's money around. He is wealthy because he and his family participated in a system of exploitation and social injustice, and he eases his conscience by throwing a few dollars back so he can relax in his manor in peace.

"They break our legs, and we say Thank You when they offer us crutches," as the song goes.

 

[Jorriss]

That's true, i hear every fictional character to become rich through business is corrupt.

 

[Fenwick]

See from writer to writer what Batman does changes, yet at the same time I feel a need to cast doubt on his abilities just cause Gotham is so bad. Be aware I place the same issue upon Superman who is credited as making Metropolis safe as can be, yet it always seems to have been that way.

I'd like a comic to deal with street level crime just once. Just show that Batman makes an actual difference. We always see street thugs standign around preforming a crime, one will say "What about the Bat?" Another will reply "What about him?" At which point Batman crashes in through the window. It may be boring but I think it adds to the character to show that there are people who want to commit crimes but are too scared they will run into Bruce to do it.

I know this is a comic book and right off the bat I have to accept a level of impossiblity. At the same time I do not see why looking at the core of a character and questioning it is so wrong. I mean Batman's life is fighting crime yet we never see crime lower or change in Gotham. New gangs arrive every other issue, and bank robberies are constant.

 

[Rasputin911]

Bertolt Brecht wrote, "It is easier to rob by setting up a bank than by holding up a bank clerk." (I favour the translation, "What is the robbing of a bank compared to its founding," but whatever.)

Bruce Wayne, like a lot of the elite wealthy, engages in pet charities. How did he get the money, though, to play at being philanthropic? By exploiting the poor and by pushing other people's money around. He is wealthy because he and his family participated in a system of exploitation and social injustice, and he eases his conscience by throwing a few dollars back so he can relax in his manor in peace.

"They break our legs, and we say Thank You when they offer us crutches," as the song goes.

what a load of left-wing pseudo-populist crap. Batman has exposed corruption among the "elite" plenty of times in comics/films, and your making the assumption that his parents somehow "cheated" to gain their wealth.

I suppose nothing short of a socialist revolution would make him a hero though

 

[souloffire]

High crime rate, constant murder, corrupt police, the list goes on. Batman is a favorite character of mine, but after looking at various posts, and threads I am starting to get this feeling that perhaps his skills at fighting crime are somewhat lacking. I mean he is smart, determined, and all the time fighting crime, however has any dent been made? Superman, Green Arrow, Flash, and all the tohers live in cities with a lot of supervillians, but little street crime. Gotham has both. So is it fair to say that Batman does save the world, but kinda sucks at stopping crime?

It's a comic book. Without those elements in Gotham you don't have a comic book. Nobody wants to read Superman battling street crime every month so writers make the villains and the types of crime based on the characters their writing.

 

[Fenwick]

It's a comic book. Without those elements in Gotham you don't have a comic book. Nobody wants to read Superman battling street crime every month so writers make the villains and the types of crime based on the characters their writing.

I know fully well it is a comic book. Yet the example you give I believe supports my own observations. No one wants to read about Batman fighting muggers every day, they want the Joker, Mr. Freeze, strange global conspiracies, everything you can imagine. We want heroes fighting their rogues gallery. We have superman, the Flash, Green Arrow, and everyone else do this, yet why is it no writer will ever make Batman successful against the very thing he preaches at length about? He is one of the Big Three, this person who has everything planned, out every single villian able to be defeated, and so smart nothing can stop him.

I find it odd everyone looks down upon my questions, when we have full length discussions on what Batmobile works the best, and why Iron Man's armor could work.

 

[souloffire]

No one wants to read about Batman fighting muggers every day, they want the Joker, Mr. Freeze, strange global conspiracies, everything you can imagine. We want heroes fighting their rogues gallery.

The last I checked Batman does fight his rogues gallery.

 

[baerrtt]

See from writer to writer what Batman does changes, yet at the same time I feel a need to cast doubt on his abilities just cause Gotham is so bad. Be aware I place the same issue upon Superman who is credited as making Metropolis safe as can be, yet it always seems to have been that way.

I'd like a comic to deal with street level crime just once. Just show that Batman makes an actual difference. We always see street thugs standign around preforming a crime, one will say "What about the Bat?" Another will reply "What about him?" At which point Batman crashes in through the window. It may be boring but I think it adds to the character to show that there are people who want to commit crimes but are too scared they will run into Bruce to do it.

I know this is a comic book and right off the bat I have to accept a level of impossiblity. At the same time I do not see why looking at the core of a character and questioning it is so wrong. I mean Batman's life is fighting crime yet we never see crime lower or change in Gotham. New gangs arrive every other issue, and bank robberies are constant.

He's ultimately only one man (yes even taking his sidekicks into account) and a non-superpowered one at that hence why many criminals, realistically, think they can take their chances in his city.

He doesn't possess super-speed so even though he patrols the city every night if two crimes were taking place at the same time (or even more than two) at best he'd be able to stop one (as he's been depicted as doing). Police officers patrol streets, in the real world, day and night and,usually, are licensed to kill depending on the situation something that Batman doesn't do in the comics. And yet in our very real world such things don't deter criminals from committing all sorts of acts.

If the threat of the police can't deter crime totally it's plausible that one vigilante who doesn't kill isn't going to start lowering crime figures (though THE DARK KNIGHT,post bank robbery, opens with the suggestion that Batman's presence has done just that).

 

[Daredevil_2003]

This is a fair point. Batman plays at being a vigilante by mopping up street crime and the occasional costumed lunatic but does nothing to address the causes of his community's sickness.

Why are street criminals bad? In Gotham it's because they're bad people who need discipline. The moral is you need to keep in line or you'll get your ass kicked by a wealthy capitalist... just like in real life.

If he wanted to make a real difference he'd open hospitals, refurbish schools, and fund prevention programs for children and adolescents. Maybe even start a movement for workers' rights to alleviate the exploitation of the poor by the super-rich like himself.

But that would not make a very exciting comic, I admit.

See from writer to writer what Batman does changes, yet at the same time I feel a need to cast doubt on his abilities just cause Gotham is so bad. Be aware I place the same issue upon Superman who is credited as making Metropolis safe as can be, yet it always seems to have been that way.

I'd like a comic to deal with street level crime just once. Just show that Batman makes an actual difference. We always see street thugs standign around preforming a crime, one will say "What about the Bat?" Another will reply "What about him?" At which point Batman crashes in through the window. It may be boring but I think it adds to the character to show that there are people who want to commit crimes but are too scared they will run into Bruce to do it.

I know this is a comic book and right off the bat I have to accept a level of impossiblity. At the same time I do not see why looking at the core of a character and questioning it is so wrong. I mean Batman's life is fighting crime yet we never see crime lower or change in Gotham. New gangs arrive every other issue, and bank robberies are constant.

It's a comic book. Without those elements in Gotham you don't have a comic book. Nobody wants to read Superman battling street crime every month so writers make the villains and the types of crime based on the characters their writing.

Do you guys even read comic books? Let alone Batman ones? These things are hit on frequently.

Oh forget it. Batman - War On Crime, written by Paul Dini and illustrated by Alex Ross. One of the best one shot Batman comics ever written, IMHO, and perfectly illustrates what I'm getting at.

Go read.

Now.

 

[storyteller]

yeah for the most part. Batman tore down the Gotham underworld but then the Gotham underworld started to play ball with the metahuman world. Last Rites basically tells us that without Batman to keep gangs in check, they will spill out of control and fight for territory.

 

[Fenwick]

The last I checked Batman does fight his rogues gallery.

I too am aware of that. The point I was making was about what people want to see. They do not like seeing Batman go up against car jackers for twenty pages, they want him fighting the Joker, or trying to outthink the Riddler. So the logic many use of that Batman has to be in a crime ridden city doesn't work, cause no one really cares about gang wars and such (as Wargames showed us all). If a writer spoke of how the rogues made it why Batman could not end crime I'd be quiet, but the character has reached this level of prowess that any attempt to show him weak seems outside of what Batman is.

Do you guys even read comic books? Let alone Batman ones? These things are hit on frequently.

Oh forget it. Batman - War On Crime, written by Paul Dini and illustrated by Alex Ross. One of the best one shot Batman comics ever written, IMHO, and perfectly illustrates what I'm getting at.

Go read.

Now.

I have read war on crime. It is a very good story, but I always thought it fell outside of normal DC comics. It's more like an art book to me then anything like Knightfall, RIP, or the other Batman stories.

 

[maninthechair]

I ask this not in the, why look he saved the universe, or the JL, or even Superman scheme of things but in actual terms of saving the day. We look at heroes and point the good they do, yet in truth Gotham city seems like the worst place to live inside of the DC universe.

High crime rate, constant murder, corrupt police, the list goes on. Batman is a favorite character of mine, but after looking at various posts, and threads I am starting to get this feeling that perhaps his skills at fighting crime are somewhat lacking. I mean he is smart, determined, and all the time fighting crime, however has any dent been made? Superman, Green Arrow, Flash, and all the tohers live in cities with a lot of supervillians, but little street crime. Gotham has both. So is it fair to say that Batman does save the world, but kinda sucks at stopping crime?

Absolutely, he is. Just because he hasn't eliminated crime from gotham is no reflection on his abilitiy. One of the biggest things that always appealed tp me with Batman rather than Superman, is Bruce is just a human with no powers. Yes, he's a great detective and can kick the crap out of people but he's only human. Kinda like the old westerns with the one good man in a bad town. He can't be everywhere in a spilt second like superman. In stead, he is kind of stuck trying to put his finger in a constantly cracking dam. Just because the dam is leaking doesn't mean he isn't doing more than is ever expected of a person to try to fix it