Is Britain on the verge of breaking apart?

[kainedamo]

And does anyone care that much?

The British empire is a relic from a darker time of humanity. When people felt that they were entitled to claim what wasn't theirs.

Anyway, the Scottish Nationalist Party (SNP) is now the largest party in Scotland, having the most seats there, and have taken key areas away from Labour. This is probably due to a mixture of a change of attitude from the Scottish and an increasingly unpopular Labour goverment.

One of the SNP's main policies is to bring about an independent Scotland. I believe there is going to be a referendum in 2010 where the Scottish people can vote on it, if I'm not mistaken.

What's scottish comedian Limmy think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdChs1CSs2E

[YT]rdChs1CSs2E[/YT]

If they vote yes, if Scotland becomes independent, then Britain loses its second largest country.

In Northern Ireland, you may be aware that there has been peace for around 8 years or so, and the DUP and Sinn Fein are succesfully (more or less) working together in government. Sinn Fein, the second most popular party here and gaining numbers all the time, obviously want to push for reuniting with southern Ireland and have Ireland be totally independent from Britain. Scotland gaining independence would push the popularity of the idea here.

Here though, its more complicated. The DUP are not just opposed to it, they're vehemenently opposed. They represent a chunk of people in this country that see themselves as British, that identify much more with being British than Irish. And in fact they'd find the idea of being labelled as Irish offensive.

For decades, seperate sides of the community have fought bitterly both politically and violently. The IRA, the UVF and various loyalist terrorists, riots, etc. The Northern Ireland peace process has come leaps and bounds and we have come further than many thought possible. But some people would not be happy at all to see this country gain independence. Scotland doing it though, it could give us the push we need (I feel we're better off independent) towards independence.

So if Scotland and Ireland do it, what's left of the old empire? England and Wales.

So is it close to the end?

 

[kainedamo]

Nobody cares

 

[hippie_hunter]

Personally I think that Ireland will never be united and I think it will be for the best. If Northern Ireland separates from the United Kingdom, it will be an independent country with the British monarch as it's head (sorta like Canada and Australia). However, I think the only way Northern Ireland will separate from the UK is if Scotland breaks away first.

As for Scotland, the SNP doesn't have enough seats to make a full drive for independence yet. They only hold the majority in the Scottish Parliament by 1 seat. Along with Labour, the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats oppose such a thing. I don't think there will be a referendum on Scottish independence in 2010 for that reason. However, Labour has pretty much become the Republican Party of the UK in terms of popularity and the SNP is bound to pick up more of Labour's in the Scottish Parliament.

Depending on how well the SNP runs Scotland along with their performance in the next election, maybe they will be able to have the referendum that they want so badly. And I can definitely see it go either way. Though who knows if the UK and the international community will recognize it.

Although with the recent electoral success of the SNP, I wonder if this will effect the success of Plaid Cymru.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

When America declared it's independence England truely lost it's grip on the world. Added to that,Britain created a whole new nightmare..the American Empire. But as for the English,they began with their small island..and will stay with it.

Wales,Scotland and Ireland were all seperate..but this was a long time ago. But being attached to the English for so long..they sort of lost their own face. Wales the most,because they were taken over first. Ireland seems to have it's own face the most..because in events,they represent them self..instead of wearing a "GBR" logo.

Britain,I think would have broken appart already. But if it finally does,then England would only have a voice in certain things..and echos from Canada and Australia.

 

[rdh007]

When America declared it's independence England truely lost it's grip on the world. Added to that,Britain created a whole new nightmare..the American Empire.

I've never believed that my country is infallible. However,

 

[hippie_hunter]

When America declared it's independence England truely lost it's grip on the world.

What the hell are you talking about? After the United States gained its independence, Britain created an even better and mightier colonial empire by expanding Canada, colonizing Australia and New Zealand, and seizing territories in Africa and India. They also created the world's most powerful Navy and became the dominant military force in the world after defeating Napoleon.

Added to that,Britain created a whole new nightmare..the American Empire.

Wow...you just really couldn't restrain yourself with the America bashing yet again. Even though it has nothing to do with the topic.

But as for the English,they began with their small island..and will stay with it.

Yes...hence why they still have control of the British Virgin Islands, Anguilla, the Cayman Islands, the Turks & Caicos Islands, and Montserrat in the Caribbean.

Bermuda, the Falkland Islands, South Georgia & the South Sandwich Islands, and St. Helena in the Atlantic,

Gibraltar, Akrotiri & Dhekelia in Cyprus, the British Indian Ocean Territory, the Pitcairn Islands in the Pacific, and the British Antarctic Territory.

Yes the English are really staying within their own island. They're doing so well at it that the English monarch is also the monarch of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Belize, Tuvalu, Papua New Guinea, St. Kitts & Nevis, Grenada, Jamaica, the Bahamas, Barbados, Antigua & Barbuda, St. Lucia, the Solomon Islands, and St. Vincent & the Grenadines.

Wales,Scotland and Ireland were all seperate..but this was a long time ago. But being attached to the English for so long..they sort of lost their own face. Wales the most,because they were taken over first. Ireland seems to have it's own face the most..because in events,they represent them self..instead of wearing a "GBR" logo.

Of course Ireland represents itself, they're an independent country for crying out loud.

Britain,I think would have broken appart already. But if it finally does,then England would only have a voice in certain things..and echos from Canada and Australia.

Ummm...what

 

[hippie_hunter]

EDIT: Double Post

 

[04nbod]

When America declared it's independence England truely lost it's grip on the world. .

the british empire was in full swing long after that. the second world war killed it dead but prior to the first world war the british government were still snatching african nations 'for their own good'. Plus India was far more lucritive for the British Empire than North America ever was.

to go back to a time when we weren't a united kingdom you have to go to the seventeenth century whaen James 1 king of scotland also became king of england by then we'd had wales and ireland since the medieval times. Scotland wouldn't survive as a separate country in the modern world. It doesn't have enough to offer to be economically self sustainable. Sorry LV!

 

[lars573]

And does anyone care that much?

The British empire is a relic from a darker time of humanity. When people felt that they were entitled to claim what wasn't theirs.

Anyway, the Scottish Nationalist Party (SNP) is now the largest party in Scotland, having the most seats there, and have taken key areas away from Labour. This is probably due to a mixture of a change of attitude from the Scottish and an increasingly unpopular Labour goverment.

One of the SNP's main policies is to bring about an independent Scotland. I believe there is going to be a referendum in 2010 where the Scottish people can vote on it, if I'm not mistaken.

What's scottish comedian Limmy think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdChs1CSs2E

[YT]rdChs1CSs2E[/YT]

If they vote yes, if Scotland becomes independent, then Britain loses its second largest country.

In Northern Ireland, you may be aware that there has been peace for around 8 years or so, and the DUP and Sinn Fein are succesfully (more or less) working together in government. Sinn Fein, the second most popular party here and gaining numbers all the time, obviously want to push for reuniting with southern Ireland and have Ireland be totally independent from Britain. Scotland gaining independence would push the popularity of the idea here.

Here though, its more complicated. The DUP are not just opposed to it, they're vehemenently opposed. They represent a chunk of people in this country that see themselves as British, that identify much more with being British than Irish. And in fact they'd find the idea of being labelled as Irish offensive.

For decades, seperate sides of the community have fought bitterly both politically and violently. The IRA, the UVF and various loyalist terrorists, riots, etc. The Northern Ireland peace process has come leaps and bounds and we have come further than many thought possible. But some people would not be happy at all to see this country gain independence. Scotland doing it though, it could give us the push we need (I feel we're better off independent) towards independence.

So if Scotland and Ireland do it, what's left of the old empire? England and Wales.

So is it close to the end?

Your getting worked up over (almost) nothing. Canada has had 3 referundums on Quebec sovergeinty. We have 2 parties (one federal, one provincial) dedicated to a Quebec that's either totally indepent or more autonomus inside Canada. The Parti Québécois (provincial sovereigntist party) was formed 40 years ago and formed the provincial government 4 times. Guess what? Quebec is still part of Canada. The thing about these sovereigntist parties is that they actually have to govern too. Do you think Scottish voters will support SNP led independance if they make a mess of things now? They've been in power for what 2 years, could they even get enough support for independance?

 

[hippie_hunter]

the british empire was in full swing long after that. the second world war killed it dead but prior to the first world war the british government were still snatching african nations 'for their own good'. Plus India was far more lucritive for the British Empire than North America ever was.

Bingo

to go back to a time when we weren't a united kingdom you have to go to the seventeenth century whaen James 1 king of scotland also became king of england by then we'd had wales and ireland since the medieval times. Scotland wouldn't survive as a separate country in the modern world. It doesn't have enough to offer to be economically self sustainable. Sorry LV!

Actually Scotland has an abundant amount of natural resources, it's also the largest petroleum producer in the EU. And has plenty of industries such as finances, tourism, manufacturing, etc. If nations with much, much poorer economies can be independent, Scotland can certainly manage.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Your getting worked up over (almost) nothing. Canada has had 3 referundums on Quebec sovergeinty. We have 2 parties (one federal, one provincial) dedicated to a Quebec that's either totally indepent or more autonomus inside Canada. The Parti Québécois (provincial sovereigntist party) was formed 40 years ago and formed the provincial government 4 times. Guess what? Quebec is still part of Canada. The thing about these sovereigntist parties is that they actually have to govern too. Do you think Scottish voters will support SNP led independance if they make a mess of things now? They've been in power for what 2 years, could they even get enough support for independance?

To be fair, the previous referendum in Quebec almost passed. It failed by not even a 1% margin.

Though I do agree with you for the most part. Right now the SNP doesn't have enough clout to present a referendum for Scottish independence, and they haven't been in power long enough either to be the greatest ever or the biggest screw ups ever. However, they'll most likely gain more seats in the next election because of Labour's increasing unpopularity. Who knows how much power they'll gain or lose in the future.

 

[lars573]

Well to be accurate in 1995 there weren't any rules about succession from the confederation. I watched those reults come in with my parents. The results then were 51 to 49 more or less. Which was very unclear. Now we have an act of parliment that has clear guidelines for it. One being the referendum results have to be a supermajority (more than 2/3's). The question has to be clear (independance Y/N), and the federal parliment gets to decide what clear is. They can't unilaterally succede. They have to negotiate once the referendum result criteria above are reached. And if the central government in Britian is smart they'll draft a bill like this if a Scottish independace referendum does comes up.

But how long can the SNP coast on what ammounts to a "We're not Labour! and Vive Ecosse Libre! LOL!!" platform? Because in the Canadian experience the Parti Québécois was, setting aside their sovereigntist angle, a regular political party capable of pissing off their electorate. The SNP will probably do the same.

 

[chamber-music]

Britain breaking apart has nothing to do with the British Empire, its to do with the British Union which took effect 1707.

I really don't mind if Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland are independent but its worked for the last centuries or decades so I don't know why not. I think there are more benefits being part of the union of the United Kingdom or Great Britain then there are of going it alone.

The SNP is doing well mostly because of Labours unpopularity and The Tories never being popular in Scotland so little alternative. I think the SNP play up to much on anti-english sentiment. Everytime I see them on TV they can't go 5 minutes without menitioning the english. They seem to have a chip on their shoulder or some sort of complex about england.