Is Nickelodeon in the Same Predicament as the Disney Channel

[Hellion]

Does Disney ever release the DCOMs on DVD?

 

[Johnny Drama]

A while back, there was a discussion that I read concerning Disney not having enough "neutral" or "boy centric" programs. Either the shows that are currently around have a female lead, have male leads but are decidedly, more female appealing (i.e. Jonas), or have been shunted off to the smaller Disney XD. Now in fairness to Nick, I don't watch that particular channel now as when say, I was a in middle to high school or younger. Therefore, I wouldn't consider myself to be the best judge of Nick's recent content.

However, when I do catch Nickelodeon from time to time, I've come to the conclusion that it shares a good share of problems that I personally have with the Disney Channel. I mean for starters, whereas any live-action show that isn't produced by It's a Laugh Productions is either non-existent or underpromoted, the same thing can be said with Dan Schneider over on Nick. Like Disney, post of the current shows on Nick have female lead (I don't mean to sound sexist, but I prefer some "diversity"), i.e. iCarly, True Jackson, VP, and Victorious. Yes, there's also Big Time Rush, but I consider that show to be in the same category as Jonas over at Disney. More "neutral" shows on Nick like The Troop seems to not get as much publicity or attention as the others.

Like Disney, Nickelodeon in possibly the past decade (or close to that) have fallen into the trap of running the same shows to death day-by-day. I mean, it seems like approximately 60-70% of Nick's daily schedule recently consist of iCarly, SpongBob, and Fairly OddParents. It's really no different than towards the end of the 1990s-early 2000s when off the heels of the success of the first Rugrats movie, just about every other show on Nick had to be produced by Klasky-Csupo.

Dude, who cares? you were born in 1982, you should have stopped watching BOTH channels like 20 years ago....

 

[Ipodman]

I havent watched Good Luck Charlie... but Wizards of Waverly Place is the best now...

 

[TMC1982]

Dude, who cares? you were born in 1982, you should have stopped watching BOTH channels like 20 years ago....

What kind of bullcrap response is that!? So a beloved channel that I grew up with (regardless of its target demographic), doesn't warrant my critique once I enter high school!? That's a very ignorant statement to proclaim that young adults don't check on on Nickelodeon and/or Disney Channel to compare and contrast a certain generational era.

 

[Johnny Drama]

What kind of bullcrap response is that!? So a beloved channel that I grew up with (regardless of its target demographic), doesn't warrant my critique once I enter high school!? That's a very ignorant statement to proclaim that young adults don't check on on Nickelodeon and/or Disney Channel to compare and contrast a certain generational era.

Nice try, but based on your knowledge of the programs on each channel, it is obvious you watch both channels regularly which is very weird considering your age.
Using your logic, I could argue that they just don't make pacifiers they way they used to, and it's not weird for me to make that assesment because at one time I was a wittle itty bitty baby. At 28 years old, it is very strange for you to watch iCarly, Hanna Montana or whatever other show staring 11 year old girls made for 11 year old girls, no matter how you try to slice the pie, hombre.

 

[TMC1982]

Nice try, but based on your knowledge of the programs on each channel, it is obvious you watch both channels regularly which is very weird considering your age.
Using your logic, I could argue that they just don't make pacifiers they way they used to, and it's not weird for me to make that assesment because at one time I was a wittle itty bitty baby. At 28 years old, it is very strange for you to watch iCarly, Hanna Montana or whatever other show staring 11 year old girls made for 11 year old girls, no matter how you try to slice the pie, hombre.

Why the hell are you even bothering to "add" to this conversation? You just sound like you're trying to start a flame war. Let me ask you something hombre, what more "age appropriate" shows/channels should I be watching instead of Nickelodeon and Disney?

 

[superhero]

ihadn't watch nick snice when i was teeanger. . two bestshow wasdoug and are you afradiof the dakr? two of my favrotie nick shows. i did watch barn yardanmailes when it was on.i likeddanny phomtom. their show i don't like. ican'tstand spouen bob. i watch i carly sometime. they play it often i never seen big time rush. ido like truejackson vp. its really good. i alsways forget what timei t comeo n.i rember teen nick like all that keen andkal secert world of alex macand are you afardi of the dark?.

 

[Johnny Drama]

Why the hell are you even bothering to "add" to this conversation? You just sound like you're trying to start a flame war. Let me ask you something hombre, what more "age appropriate" shows/channels should I be watching instead of Nickelodeon and Disney?

I am by no means "flaming" anyone. I was just curious as to where the entertainment value comes in for you as you are a male, and you are pushing 30, and both channels are geared towards pre-teen females. To each his own, I suppose.

 

[TMC1982]

I am by no means "flaming" anyone. I was just curious as to where the entertainment value comes in for you as you are a male, and you are pushing 30, and both channels are geared towards pre-teen females. To each his own, I suppose.

I guess by your logic, if you aren't African American, you should watch Black Entertainment Television. If you aren't gay, lesbian or bisexual, you shouldn't watch Logo. If you aren't a woman, you shouldn't watch Lifetime, Oxygen or WE. If you aren't from the southern United States, you shouldn't watch CMT. You get my drift.

 

[ALP]

I love Disney channel and Nick but I am slightly over the age they cater to, but I am still a teenager.

Nothing at all wrong with older people watching those channels and enjoying them. The problem arises when older people watch Disney and Nick and then complain about how they don't like the product. That is flat out stupid because the product obviously isn't aimed for them. That would be like me watching CMT constantly and then complaining about how bad the country music is when I don't like that type of music.

People like to complain that the shows aren't as good as they use to be when they were kids, blah blah blah. The problems aren't the shows, the problem is that you aren't a kid anymore and apparently can't enjoy shows they like. All kids and most teens I know love icarly. My niece is small and she is one of those super-fans of Hannah Montana lol.

When you're older you are not the target audience. If you enjoy some of the shows then that is a plus, otherwise you have no right to complain about childrens shows being too childish.

 

[Hellion]

I love Disney channel and Nick but I am slightly over the age they cater to, but I am still a teenager.

Nothing at all wrong with older people watching those channels and enjoying them. The problem arises when older people watch Disney and Nick and then complain about how they don't like the product. That is flat out stupid because the product obviously isn't aimed for them. That would be like me watching CMT constantly and then complaining about how bad the country music is when I don't like that type of music.

People like to complain that the shows aren't as good as they use to be when they were kids, blah blah blah. The problems aren't the shows, the problem is that you aren't a kid anymore and apparently can't enjoy shows they like. All kids and most teens I know love icarly. My niece is small and she is one of those super-fans of Hannah Montana lol.

When you're older you are not the target audience. If you enjoy some of the shows then that is a plus, otherwise you have no right to complain about childrens shows being too childish.

Here, Here

 

[The Question]

I love Disney channel and Nick but I am slightly over the age they cater to, but I am still a teenager.

Nothing at all wrong with older people watching those channels and enjoying them. The problem arises when older people watch Disney and Nick and then complain about how they don't like the product. That is flat out stupid because the product obviously isn't aimed for them. That would be like me watching CMT constantly and then complaining about how bad the country music is when I don't like that type of music.

People like to complain that the shows aren't as good as they use to be when they were kids, blah blah blah. The problems aren't the shows, the problem is that you aren't a kid anymore and apparently can't enjoy shows they like. All kids and most teens I know love icarly. My niece is small and she is one of those super-fans of Hannah Montana lol.

When you're older you are not the target audience. If you enjoy some of the shows then that is a plus, otherwise you have no right to complain about childrens shows being too childish.

I really don't think that's the issue. I think Nickelodeon's programming has in fact gotten worse over the years, and I complain not because I consider myself their target audience, but because they're pandering to kids by not trying to have decent programming and I have a serious problem with the media pandering to kids, or audiences in general, instead of putting in actual effort.

 

[ALP]

I don't like all of their shows, but I like some. I don't deny they don't put effort into their work. What do you consider "decent programming." Fact is, if the work is enjoyed by the main target audience then they have accomplished their goal.

Dan Schneider in the 90s created Kenan and Kel, All That, Good Burger, and The Amanda Show... Now in the 2000s he has created Drake and Josh, Zoey 101, iCarly, and Victorious. Schneider's writing has not drastically changed, only the people have. I think D&J and iCarly are just as good if not better than anything he created in the 90s. Same is true of Disney, Rich Correll is the head creative guy of Disney channel. He's been writing the Disney shows for about a decade now, granted some people have always had issues with him making things "goofy" like in That's So Raven. I remember when Lizzie Maguire was around, it was my cousins favorite show. We were both little kids then but when it got cancelled and That's So Raven took over I remember her saying that Raven was a much crazier and goofy show...but we still loved it. And now people say the same of Hannah Montana.

The only real issue I have with kids tv these days is that so much of it focuses on famous kids, we need more shows about every day kids. But as I said before, when kids start complaining that they don't enjoy the shows on Nick then that is the only time a real problem arises.

 

[The Question]

I don't like all of their shows, but I like some. I don't deny they don't put effort into their work. What do you consider "decent programming." Fact is, if the work is enjoyed by the main target audience then they have accomplished their goal.

Dan Schneider in the 90s created Kenan and Kel, All That, Good Burger, and The Amanda Show... Now in the 2000s he has created Drake and Josh, Zoey 101, iCarly, and Victorious. Schneider's writing has not drastically changed, only the people have. I think D&J and iCarly are just as good if not better than anything he created in the 90s. Same is true of Disney, Rich Correll is the head creative guy of Disney channel. He's been writing the Disney shows for about a decade now, granted some people have always had issues with him making things "goofy" like in That's So Raven. I remember when Lizzie Maguire was around, it was my cousins favorite show. We were both little kids then but when it got cancelled and That's So Raven took over I remember her saying that Raven was a much crazier and goofy show...but we still loved it. And now people say the same of Hannah Montana.

The only real issue I have with kids tv these days is that so much of it focuses on famous kids, we need more shows about every day kids. But as I said before, when kids start complaining that they don't enjoy the shows on Nick then that is the only time a real problem arises.

I disagree almost completely. Yes, a lot of kids enjoy the programming they put out today, and so part of the goal or media entertainment, y'know, to entertain, is accomplished. And heck, I can think of quite a few shows that weren't actually very good *COUGH*powerrangers*COUGH* that I was really into as a small child.

But the thing is, I think people in the field of children's entertainment have a certain responsibility to children, and that is to not pander to them. To not churn out stuff that little effort was put into, or is all around just stupid. Yes, a lot of kids will get sucked into anything with pretty lights or people talking funny, but they'll also respond quite well to television of a higher quality, and they'll ultimately be better off for it and enjoy it more. I'm just generally of the Edward R. Murrow school of thought when it comes to television, and that especially applies to children's television.

As for what I consider to be decent programming or, to put it simply, "good," well, goodness in terns of quality of entertainment is a pretty elusive thing to me. There are a lot of things that I consider to be good that I don't particularly enjoy, and there are a lot of things I enjoy that I recognize are not in any way good.

I guess my definition of what makes good TV is:

1: Something that serious effort has been put into, that the creators took seriously even if it's something silly and they still had fun on set. Not phoned in, basically, but done with genuine effort and artistry. Not relying on stock jokes and characters so they don't actually have to try, not lazily recycling the same plots we've seen hundreds of times.

2: Something that is creative. An extension of point one, but this is very important. The creators actually tries to create something, instead of taking stock character A and formula plot B and putting them together to make something that would make a lot of money.

3: Something that this to convey some truth or truths about life. Something with a theme/themes or message/messages of some kind. And I'm very broad about what that means. It could be general Edutainment, like in Sesame Street, or something as simple as "friendship and teamwork are awesome," like in Wonderpets, or something complex and layered, like the coming of age war epic that is Avatar: The Last Airbender. Even something as simple as "life is pretty good, enjoy yourself" works. As long as there is some higher goal than making money.

Those are pretty much my three criteria for what makes something good.

 

[Hellion]

I don't like all of their shows, but I like some. I don't deny they don't put effort into their work. What do you consider "decent programming." Fact is, if the work is enjoyed by the main target audience then they have accomplished their goal.

Dan Schneider in the 90s created Kenan and Kel, All That, Good Burger, and The Amanda Show... Now in the 2000s he has created Drake and Josh, Zoey 101, iCarly, and Victorious. Schneider's writing has not drastically changed, only the people have. I think D&J and iCarly are just as good if not better than anything he created in the 90s. Same is true of Disney, Rich Correll is the head creative guy of Disney channel. He's been writing the Disney shows for about a decade now, granted some people have always had issues with him making things "goofy" like in That's So Raven. I remember when Lizzie Maguire was around, it was my cousins favorite show. We were both little kids then but when it got cancelled and That's So Raven took over I remember her saying that Raven was a much crazier and goofy show...but we still loved it. And now people say the same of Hannah Montana.

The only real issue I have with kids tv these days is that so much of it focuses on famous kids, we need more shows about every day kids. But as I said before, when kids start complaining that they don't enjoy the shows on Nick then that is the only time a real problem arises.

That's my major issue with shows these days...both channels feature shows about famous or almost famous or trying to become famous kids...lets look real quick:

Disney Has Hannah Montana, Jonas/Jonas LA, Sonny With A Chance, on XD they have the show I'm In The Band, The Camp Rock Films, Startstruck (another DCOM)...and more probably...

Nick has iCarly, Victorious, True Jackson (to a degree), Big Time Rush (again musics terrible, but I think the shows ok), Spectacular! (tv film from a year or two ago), Naked Brothers Band...and more probably...

...sign of the times I guess...

 

[ChaoticPsylocke]

yeah, thats one of the most frustrating things about their programming.

 

[GL1]

When you're older you are not the target audience. If you enjoy some of the shows then that is a plus, otherwise you have no right to complain about childrens shows being too childish.

My complaint is that a fundamental part of my society (Disney and Nick) is damaging the future of my society (umteen million children) at which point, I have plenty right to complain. The issue is not that the shows are childish, the issue is that the shows have an abusive pattern in their production.

And even if it was just that they are too childish, if I can complain about my little brother getting more cake than me, or about my neighbor getting shot, where I am also not the 'target audience,' then I can complain about children's shows being to childish

 

[ALP]

The thing is Question...I agree with your list...but I simply don't have much of a retort simply because...I feel many Nick and Disney shows fit that criteria.

Hannah Montana I definitely grant uses unoriginal plots but the show still has laughs here and there are there is almost always a message in that show. She has dealt with serious issues as moving away, her inability to not go to school b/c she has to perform, the death of her mother, her friend having diabetes, backstabbing boyfriends, etc. Many episodes of that show has a message, about the family and friends she still has who love her. Outside of her being famous, I think its a show that any little girl would love and can relate to. Same is true of iCarly. I'm not trying to pretend the shows are amazing, no, but they are quite passable and some excel.

But I think the best way of me to gauge what you are saying is for you to give me some examples of kids shows of the past you like. Truth is, things like Kenan and Kel was just as silly as anything on right now. Which of the shows on Nick and Disney do you watch? Do you feel all of them are bad? That will help me more.

I feel season 2 of Suite Life on Deck was bad, they relied too much on gimmick plots but now season 3 has been terrific thus far. There are some really stupid parts like how mental London has become but overall the writing is solid, the jokes are funny, and the kids are finally acting far more like kids(dont know what they were doing last season lol). Their original run of Zack and Cody is probably my favorite Disney channel show ever- loved Maguire too. My biggest disappointment on Disney channel is their lack of cartoons. There is only one animated show on the normal Disney but thankfully Cartoon Network fills that void. I know this thread is about nick and Disney but what do you guys think about CN? I love their cartoons right now. Anyone angry about the lack of animation on Nick and Disney should definitely tune into cartoon network.

 

[ALP]

My complaint is that a fundamental part of my society (Disney and Nick) is damaging the future of my society (umteen million children) at which point, I have plenty right to complain. The issue is not that the shows are childish, the issue is that the shows have an abusive pattern in their production.

And even if it was just that they are too childish, if I can complain about my little brother getting more cake than me, or about my neighbor getting shot, where I am also not the 'target audience,' then I can complain about children's shows being to childish

You are definitely overreacting. It is not "damaging" kids. Comparing it to a neighbor getting shot is just dumb.

You're acting like Disney and Nick are like BET at 12AM or like the sex shows on HBO. You've got to realize that most kids stop watching these shows around mid teen years...they move on and never look back.

Only way I could agree with you is if you show me a clear example of Disney Channel and Nick making damage to a child. If it makes a child kill or steal or makes someone mentally slow...

Also got to realize that kids watch these shows as a past time. They have 8 hours a day of school time to learn and be educated. If they sat in front of the box watching these shows instead of going to school you would have another good point but that is not the case.

Show me one factual reason why Hannah Montana is damaging my 6 yo niece or why Phineas and Ferb is damaging my little brother and I will agree with you. hey, might be damaging me too.

 

[The Question]

The thing is Question...I agree with your list...but I simply don't have much of a retort simply because...I feel many Nick and Disney shows fit that criteria.

Hannah Montana I definitely grant uses unoriginal plots but the show still has laughs here and there are there is almost always a message in that show. She has dealt with serious issues as moving away, her inability to not go to school b/c she has to perform, the death of her mother, her friend having diabetes, backstabbing boyfriends, etc. Many episodes of that show has a message, about the family and friends she still has who love her. Outside of her being famous, I think its a show that any little girl would love and can relate to. Same is true of iCarly. I'm not trying to pretend the shows are amazing, no, but they are quite passable and some excel.

But I think the best way of me to gauge what you are saying is for you to give me some examples of kids shows of the past you like. Truth is, things like Kenan and Kel was just as silly as anything on right now. Which of the shows on Nick and Disney do you watch? Do you feel all of them are bad? That will help me more.

I feel season 2 of Suite Life on Deck was bad, they relied too much on gimmick plots but now season 3 has been terrific thus far. There are some really stupid parts like how mental London has become but overall the writing is solid, the jokes are funny, and the kids are finally acting far more like kids(dont know what they were doing last season lol). Their original run of Zack and Cody is probably my favorite Disney channel show ever- loved Maguire too. My biggest disappointment on Disney channel is their lack of cartoons. There is only one animated show on the normal Disney but thankfully Cartoon Network fills that void. I know this thread is about nick and Disney but what do you guys think about CN? I love their cartoons right now. Anyone angry about the lack of animation on Nick and Disney should definitely tune into cartoon network.

The thing is, for me to consider something to be good, it has to fit all three criteria, not just one. Hannah Montana may have messages, but it's also pretty unoriginal and the writing staff doesn't put much effort into it and don't seem to have all that much artistic skill from a purely technical standpoint. Thus, as I measure it, Hannah Montanna is not a good show.

As for shows from the past and present:

You brought up Kenan and Kel, which yes, was a very silly show, but silliness was never one of my complaints. Silly things can be awesome, and a lot of shows and movies that fit my criteria are very, very silly. I like Kenan and Kel better than a lot of shows on today. It wasn't a great show, but it was alright. One thing it really had going for it is a cast that for the most part had serious comedic acting talent.

Other Nick shows from the past that I think were good: The Adventures of Pete & Pete, Rocko's Modern Life, Ren & Stimpy, Rugrats, Invader Zim, Avatar: The Last Airbender, Clarissa Explains it All, Hey Arnold, and at this point my memory of TV history is starting to fail be so I'll get back to you on a longer list later. Other shows that were okay but had flaws were Are You Afraid of the Dark (well written but often had child-actors-of-the-week who left much to be desired), All-That (funny a fair amount of the time, but some of the sketches fell pretty flat), Hey Dude (the characters were alright but it was obvious they were working on a shoe string budget and some of the plots were kind of weak), Salute Your Shorts (same thing, but it was better), and again I'm having a hard time remembering other Nickelodeon shows, or at least remembering them well enough to make judgements on their quality.

As for Disney, I was honestly never much of a fan of Disney's original programming, but I was a pretty big fan of So Weird and still am to this day.

As for stuff that's on now: I really can't stand any of Disney's sitcoms, but Phineas and Ferb is really good. I've seen iCarly every now and then and it's pretty much so okay it's average. I find the way they depict Carly's living situation and relationships kind of interesting, mostly because it feels a little bit more realistic to me. Some of the jokes are funny, some of them aren't, Spencer's pretty cool, and the acting over all can ben hit or miss but for the most part is passable. I think the show would be better if the show-within-a-show iCarly was better, because from what we see it doesn't look very entertaining, and doesn't seem to work how webshows work in real life. I can't think of a single internet comedian who do their shows live except for special occasions, and live internet shows are much more prone to crashing and glitching, and generally have worse video and sound quality, than canned ones. Other than iCarly, Spongebob is alright, but also hit or miss in the laughs department, some episodes are funny and some art (although the movie was all around awesome), and I find most of Nick's current programming besides that to be annoying and pointless.

As for CN, I pretty much just watch Adventure Time, which is the coolest kid's cartoon to come along in a while. Besides that I occasionally watch Flapjack and Ben 10 (although not so much the first season of Ben 10, just the stuff after Dwaine McDuffie became a writer for it).

 

[The Question]

You are definitely overreacting. It is not "damaging" kids. Comparing it to a neighbor getting shot is just dumb.

You're acting like Disney and Nick are like BET at 12AM or like the sex shows on HBO. You've got to realize that most kids stop watching these shows around mid teen years...they move on and never look back.

Only way I could agree with you is if you show me a clear example of Disney Channel and Nick making damage to a child. If it makes a child kill or steal or makes someone mentally slow...

Also got to realize that kids watch these shows as a past time. They have 8 hours a day of school time to learn and be educated. If they sat in front of the box watching these shows instead of going to school you would have another good point but that is not the case.

Show me one factual reason why Hannah Montana is damaging my 6 yo niece or why Phineas and Ferb is damaging my little brother and I will agree with you. hey, might be damaging me too.

Well, I can make an argument why going to school is damaging to kids, but that's another matter entirely.

While he is speaking very hyperbolically, I do agree with GL1 to an extent. Media and entertainment have a huge impact on children. Children tend to learn best through play and having fun better than anything else. So the people who make said media and entertainment have a responsibility to produce something that will help steer children in a more positive direction and not just teach them to turn off their brains and laugh and people talking funny. I mean, there's nothing wrong with laughing at people talking funny, and as long as the people talking funny are doing it specifically so you'll laugh, I encourage it, it's just the turning off their brains part I'd like to see less of.


Also, speaking of internet comedians and Nickelodeon, isn't it weird that Lisa Foiles from All That works for Channel Awesome on The Angry Joe Show now?

 

[ALP]

Thank you very much for your response Question!

Your list has just brought back a flash of nostalgia! I remember most of them but not all, never heard of Adventures of Pete & Pete or Salute Your Shorts. Haha, I bet my older brother is probably familar with those though, I'll have to ask him. I also use to love Are You Afraid of the Dark(the alternative to Goosebumps!) and don't forget all of the shows on Nick GAS like Double Dare, Guts, Legends of the hidden Temple! They only have one sort of gameshow on now. Feels like they did more back then lol

I watched just about all of the cartoons you mentioned. Rocko was probably my favorite show of the 90s, also loved Arnold and Rugrats! And as I said, that is really what Nick is missing these days! They have very few animated programming. Spongebob and Fairly Oddparents are still very popular but that is it. For a while I was just watching Disney Channel because I left Nick after Drake and Josh. I consider it the real last show of my 'childhood' as a kid and was so bummed when it was cut off. But then I saw iCarly and was hooked again. I recently started watching Victorious, it is hit and miss. Some of the episodes I like but there are a ton of weird characters. Like i said, lack of normal everyday kids who I think can be just as interesting.

And I agree about Adventure Time. Coolest animated show in a long time! Chowder is another good one. I was a bit iffy at first on some of these cartoons because I thought they didn't look interesting but then I reluctantly watched and liked 'em! But like I said, appreciate the reply

 

[The Question]

Thank you very much for your response Question!

Your list has just brought back a flash of nostalgia! I remember most of them but not all, never heard of Adventures of Pete & Pete or Salute Your Shorts. Haha, I bet my older brother is probably familar with those though, I'll have to ask him. I also use to love Are You Afraid of the Dark(the alternative to Goosebumps!) and don't forget all of the shows on Nick GAS like Double Dare, Guts, Legends of the hidden Temple! They only have one sort of gameshow on now. Feels like they did more back then lol

I watched just about all of the cartoons you mentioned. Rocko was probably my favorite show of the 90s, also loved Arnold and Rugrats! And as I said, that is really what Nick is missing these days! They have very few animated programming. Spongebob and Fairly Oddparents are still very popular but that is it. For a while I was just watching Disney Channel because I left Nick after Drake and Josh. I consider it the real last show of my 'childhood' as a kid and was so bummed when it was cut off. But then I saw iCarly and was hooked again. I recently started watching Victorious, it is hit and miss. Some of the episodes I like but there are a ton of weird characters. Like i said, lack of normal everyday kids who I think can be just as interesting.

And I agree about Adventure Time. Coolest animated show in a long time! Chowder is another good one. I was a bit iffy at first on some of these cartoons because I thought they didn't look interesting but then I reluctantly watched and liked 'em! But like I said, appreciate the reply

I highly recommend The Adventurs of Pete & Pete. One of the best things Nickelodeon ever did. It's a surrealist dramedy about suburban life told through the lens of early 90s indy subculture. Lots of flannel shirts and sarcasm.

Here's an episode:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYehQtdRMWM

Also, I'm not to huge on Chowder. It has a lot of potential, and the world it's set in is really cool, but it's hindered by an underwhelming main character. I'm sorry, but fat jokes just aren't that funny, and that's pretty much all the character of Cowder is about.

 

[The Question]

Also, Pete & Pete is notable for having such guest stars as Steve Buscemi, Michael Stipe of R.E.M., and Kate Pierson of the B-52s.

 

[Wheels]

Dude, who cares? you were born in 1982, you should have stopped watching BOTH channels like 20 years ago....

We all should've stopped reading comics, watching superhero cartoons, and buying toys & video games but most here still do.