Is there a chance the Hommage will bite SR in the ass?

Discussion in 'Superman Returns' started by Oldguy, Nov 18, 2005.

  1. Oldguy

    Oldguy Registered

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    When I first saw the season opener of SV with the Donner FoS, I was surprised by how upset I was to see TW in Reeve's FoS. It felt sacriligeous, like they were attempting to retcon Reeve out. Brando's VO in the teaser makes me feel the same way, that's not the son he sent to Earth. I could see critics tearing SR a new one for doing this.

    Do you think there is a chance that this sense of loyalty to Reeve may work against SR's Donner Hommage?
     
  2. \S/JcDc\S/

    \S/JcDc\S/ Registered

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    Homage you mean?
     
  3. RedIsNotBlue

    RedIsNotBlue Agree to disagree

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    I think it may go a little overkill. I don't homages though.
     
  4. KalKai

    KalKai n/a

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    What does that mean? it's not Reeve's FOS, he's not among us anymore, he was the first superman but it's time to move on.
     
  5. Oldguy

    Oldguy Registered

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    Why thank you spell-check, anything else to add?
     
  6. \S/JcDc\S/

    \S/JcDc\S/ Registered

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    Sure. I think as of late though your opinions have been different, you've been much easier to converse with on the boards :up:
     
  7. Oldguy

    Oldguy Registered

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    Actually I was right, we spell it with 2 m's in Canada.

    But back to the topic at hand...
     
  8. Oldguy

    Oldguy Registered

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    Donner's movie is Reeve's continuity, its Reeve's FoS, and Reeve's dead father. Get it yet?
     
  9. \S/JcDc\S/

    \S/JcDc\S/ Registered

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  10. \S/JcDc\S/

    \S/JcDc\S/ Registered

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  11. Showtime

    Showtime Your Friend In Time

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    I am not sure that it will come back to haunt Singer. I think he is giving the audience something they are familiar with, which is also the case with Smallville. I am not sure if I would have wanted to see a high tech fortress of solidtude as I've seen in the comics. I don't think they are trying to erased the memory of Reeve but rather keep it alive by using the Donner movies as a basis for Returns.
     
  12. Showtime

    Showtime Your Friend In Time

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    Double Post...boards are updating and screwing with my mind.
     
  13. afan

    afan Registered

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    Well Reeve was playing Superman, Brando was playing Jor-el and Jor-el is Superman's father, point being I don't think there are many who would make the connection between Christopher Reeve and the FOS or the paternal connection between Reeve and Brando quite as directly as you are.
     
  14. scifiwolf

    scifiwolf Registered

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    It's Superman's FoS. I don't think of it as an attempt to replace Reeve, but continue what seems to be a very well-loved interpretation of Superman. Reeve is the face of that interpretation, but many other people contributed to it. Now Singer and friends are adding their contributions.
     
  15. bosef982

    bosef982 Registered

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    Reeve's was an actor who played Superman.

    He died.

    Move on.

    Seriously, there comes a point where you take it a tad bit too far. Reeve's does not OWN Superman and I doubt he'd agree with half the remarks made on these boards nowadays -- but I can't speak for him.

    He's an actor who played Superman. Anything else is what you inflate into that and it stands as a subjective reality that you have no right to graft onto others, other objects, or other mediums.
     
  16. Gamma Ray

    Gamma Ray Registered

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    You're a pain in the a**.
     
  17. The Game

    The Game Registered

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    Reeve IS the best actor that has ever played Superman and no matter how you spin in it, the general public will always associate him with supes, when this film comes out Blandon will be judged against Reeve and if he does not hold up, this film will get trashed
     
  18. afan

    afan Registered

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    No doubt, just as the actors that play Bond have to stand up to the Connery yardstick, but that's a whole lot different than an audience taking affront to Singer using "Reeve's" FOS.
     
  19. patrickbateman

    patrickbateman Registered

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    could someone post a pic of the FOS not inspired by Donner's vision ? like lets say the animated series
     
  20. Oldguy

    Oldguy Registered

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    Wow, reading comprehension still isn't your thing is it? I never said Reeve is the definitive Superman. Is it so difficult to respond without putting words in my mouth?

    SR is a tribute to StM. But Routh is retconning Reeve out, now Routh is the son Brando sent to Earth, Routh is the one who resides in the Donner FoS. Routh is replacing Reeve in this continuity.

    The topic at hand is do you think there is a chance this may backfire, like the animosity a young boy might have towards a stepfather.

    Contrary to what you think, Donner's vision isn't the only viable option for Superman. I think the inevitable comparison to Reeve would have been easier avoided with an original restart.
     
  21. bosef982

    bosef982 Registered

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    I love how you say I put words in your mouth, and then you say basically those words. Excuse me for summarizing.

    BRANDO didn't send REEVES to Earth. BRANDO is not sending ROUTH to Earth.

    JOR-EL is sending KAL-EL to Earth.

    Is this really so hard to understand? These actors ARE NOT THE CHARACTERS, they play a character and these characters exist both beyond and outside them, the mantles of which available for whatever new actor comes along.

    And you're misusing Retconning. Retconing is changing the past history of a character. They are not changing the past history of a character, their accentuating it. Plus, Singer has remarked this is a "vague" history, which totally bombs any idea of retconning.

    This is the equivelant of saying that Roger Moore retconned Sean Connery out of the Bond movies. Or Pierce Brosnan retconned Sean Connery and Roger Moore. It's a logical inaccuracy that arises from not using the word properly.

    They're not saying that Routh is a different Superman, Pal-El, who was instead sent to Earth instead of Kal-El. He's playing Kal-el.

    Really, you need to draw your lines between reality and cinematic fiction.
     
  22. Oldguy

    Oldguy Registered

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    Scroll down on your american dictionary page, select the option to search the web for hommage, and you will find that the french spell it with 2 m's. Canada is a bilingual country, we have a lot of alternate spellings of words like this, like armour.

    I ignored you compliment because it's inaccurate. I haven't changed my views at all. I just stopped beating the dead horse.:)
     
  23. davejames

    davejames Registered

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    I don't think there's anything "sacriligeous" about using Donner's Jor-el or Fortress, or Williams theme music. Singer is simply honoring those movies and the public's love for them. As much as I hate Smallville, when I saw the Fortress rise up in the season premiere I got goosebumps and ate up every second of it. It didn't bother me at all to see Welling walking around inside it. The same applied to Archer and crew walking around a TOS-era starship on Enterprise-- seeing all those old sets and designs in a new light was enormously fun, regardless of how much I hated that show.

    I don't know about anybody else, but when I think of the Fortress of Solitude, the first and only one that comes to mind is the one in the Donner movies. It's just an iconic image.
     
  24. AgentPat

    AgentPat Squeaky wheel

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    I think it will depend on who you ask. I just talked with my mom today. She grew up reading comic books, she loved the Reeve films, and she watches Smallville. She's been around the block quite a few times with all things Superman, so I would consider her a long time but casual fan. Anyhoo, she saw the trailer during SV last night and couldn't stop yappin' about Marlon Brando. She was surprised they used his voice, but loved it none-the-less. She likes him better than "the other guy." (Translation: Stamp's voice as Jor-El on SV.) She was only disappointed in the length of the teaser (she wanted to see more) and she didn't like "what they did to him [Superman]." (Translation: she thought Routh was Welling.)

    Now, I realize the film isn't targeting 66 yo widowed retirees, but they're fans too. And their money is as green as everybody else's. I know on one level my mom will be highly entertained by SR, but I also happen to know there have been other revelations that have disappointed her. I just tell her to fill out her application and join the club. It's a big one. ;)
     
  25. Oldguy

    Oldguy Registered

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    RM did retcon SC out of the bond films, and PB did retcon RM, SC, TD, and every other Bond before him. There were always comparisons between the Bonds, and there were always people who were happy or unhappy with the changes. There were people who were turned off, and others who were delighted.

    There were even people who didn't go see RM bond movies because SC was their man. Bond is a poor parallel to Superman. Bond is in the real world, where stylistic expression of the MI settings is less open to inturpretation. A government office is a government office. The planet Krypton is alot more open to inturpretation. Donner's way isn't the only way it could be done, or should be done. S:TAS is a prime example of that.

    I think if SR was an original vision, then there would be less comparisons to Reeve. My question was, will Routh be percieved as replacing Reeve, because now he's the Superman in the continuity established by Reeve? Will this generate animosity like a child has for a new stepdad?

    Bosef, why don't you try to respond without yelling like an infant and insulting me with your not so subtle insinuations.

    You don't think it will bite SR in the ass? Fine. See how easy that was?
     

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