Is there something wrong with the Snyderverse?

[batman1]

I am liking all the DC movies but there does seem to be a problem with how the general audience views them. What is going on? Is the Snyderverse going down the wrong way?

 

[TeeKay]

The pretentious nature of the films.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

the fact that they let zack snyder have any say in the creative direction of the DC Cinematic Universe as a whole

 

[jokesonm3]

Best to move this into the DC Comics Films section.

the fact that they let zack snyder have any say in the creative direction of a DC Cinematic Universe

This so much.

 

[FunkMiller]

The clue is in the title.

 

[The Joker]

the fact that they let zack snyder have any say in the creative direction of the DC Cinematic Universe as a whole

I agree. He is good at visuals, but hopeless with characters and story.

 

[harlequinade]

The clue is in the title.

This. He's not the right person to do this.

 

[writer0327]

I blame poor planning as much as poor execution.

When the stories started coming out about reshooting scenes for SS to "lighten" the mood, that bothered me. You have to know what you intend to do, even if you don't know the entire project down to the final detail, you have to have an overall idea of tone. What kind of story do we want to here? What do we have to say about these characters?

It seems like WB/DC is swayed by popular opinion or what's "hot" right now more than what they believe in. To me, its one of 2 things...1. they have no game plan of what they want to do, and are just throwing things up against a wall to see what sticks, or 2. they have no confidence in their properties.

If there's one major difference between Marvel and DC's approach to a cinematic universe, it's the planning. Marvel planned it and put it out there, for better or worse. WB/DC seems to be unaware of what will work and uncertain of what they want to do.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Poor execution and executive interference. Snyder strikes me as being a bit like George Lucas. He has a ton of great ideas, but when given the freedom to do whatever he wants and have full control over a movie, it doesn't end well. The less control he has over his films the better. Because while the edits to BvS didn't help, there's still plenty of dropped balls and failed concepts that never get properly delivered on.

The second problem has been studio interference. They've butchered two films in the editing room, trying to make it align to what they think audiences most want. And that kind of thinking almost NEVER works. Unless you're Michael Bay.

 

[kguillou]

There's nothing wrong with it. The problem is the studio and the director clashed on two films and the product was an aborted child. And ultimately, its on the studio. Wb should have known the tone, and story direction they were going for at the beginning of production and these notes should have been passed on to Snyder and Terrio and Ayer. Both creative teams were under the false assumption that they could make any kind of movie they wanted with these character and they did just that. WB was scared BvS was too dark? WHY DIDNT THEY MANDATE THE TONE IN THE SCRIPT STAGE? The same with SS, they pulled the wool over the directors' eyes. Its their job as the studio to tell the directors "ok, we're going to let you make this movie, but here are our notes of mandates that have to be in the film. Now, start writing."

 

[K-Rayner05]

I think they should have just kept Green Lantern 2011 and improved from there.

 

[FunkMiller]

There's nothing wrong with it. The problem is the studio and the director clashed on two films and the product was an aborted child. And ultimately, its on the studio. Wb should have known the tone, and story direction they were going for at the beginning of production and these notes should have been passed on to Snyder and Terrio and Ayer. Both creative teams were under the false assumption that they could make any kind of movie they wanted with these character and they did just that. WB was scared BvS was too dark? WHY DIDNT THEY MANDATE THE TONE IN THE SCRIPT STAGE? The same with SS, they pulled the wool over the directors' eyes. Its their job as the studio to tell the directors "ok, we're going to let you make this movie, but here are our notes of mandates that have to be in the film. Now, start writing."

They allowed Snyder to set the tone. There's your problem.

Yes, the TC is inferior to the UC, but it's still a badly judged, poorly made movie, and a horrible foundation for a cinematic universe.

 

[Swamp Spectre]

I am liking all the DC movies but there does seem to be a problem with how the general audience views them. What is going on? Is the Snyderverse going down the wrong way?

I'm gonna go with no, because I absolutely love Man of Steel and Batman v Superman (Ultimate). On the other hand, I merely liked Suicide Squad during my first and only viewing. My problems with Squad aren't with the tone or character execution, though, but merely the editing and telling of the story. That can't really be pinned on the "Snyderverse", though, so much as it can the editors, Ayer and whoever twisted his arm into compromising his original vision. Although Ayer continues to maintain that he loves focus groups and thinks they're essential to achieving a film that pleases audiences. So who am I to call him a liar?

 

[BlZARRO]

I am liking all the DC movies but there does seem to be a problem with how the general audience views them. What is going on? Is the Snyderverse going down the wrong way?

There are flaws in the way the movies are constructed, but the universe itself is perfectly fine. It just doesn't have the mass appeal of Marvel. To be fair neither the Nolanverse did, but those movies were so freaking amazing that they were still able to break records. Still, MCU doesn't need the same level of quality to make similar money. That's mainly because the way they do things is slightly more appealing to the masses. It's a lighter, more colorful universe. More straightforward, less violent, less controversial. Perfect to please the majority.

 

[Zarex]

There are flaws in the way the movies are constructed, but the universe itself is perfectly fine. It just doesn't have the mass appeal of Marvel. To be fair neither the Nolanverse did, but those movies were so freaking amazing that they were still able to break records. Still, MCU doesn't need the same level of quality to make similar money. That's mainly because the way they do things is slightly more appealing to the masses. It's a lighter, more colorful universe. More straightforward, less violent, less controversial. Perfect to please the majority.

At the onset Feige and Favreau aimed their films at a broad audience, to be enjoyed by parents and preteens alike. The DCEU has been targeted primarily toward the 18-25 audience. Though that is a prime movie going crowd, the Snyderverse has minimal appeal to old fogies like myself.

 

[djsunyc]

At the onset Feige and Favreau aimed their films at a broad audience, to be enjoyed by parents and preteens alike. The DCEU has been targeted primarily toward the 18-25 audience. Though that is a prime movie going crowd, the Snyderverse has minimal appeal to old fogies like myself.

i would also venture to say that the 18-25 crowd is a lot more critical and nitpicky. a 45 year old taking their 10 year old kid to watch avengers would yield a much more pleasant reaction/review than a 24 year old guy who believes everything should be done his way.

 

[Coffee]

I think the issue is somewhat bigger than just Snyder.

I think it goes back to (the WB) wanting to create this universe too quickly. They seem to be in "catch up mode", & the films, from a general public standpoint, are suffering because of it.

We have 3 DCEU movies & we've already had doomsday, death of superman plot & Justice League is opening next year. Too much, too fast.....

Man of Steel (while I enjoyed it), was a bit of a misstep. I don't think it was the disaster that some claim, but I felt, as the "kickoff" film it sets the tone & didn't seem to resonate all that high with the general audience. Even the title (presumably hopping on the "dark knight" train) wasn't needed. Call it Superman: "(sub title). I just want a fun, action packed, Superman film.

It doesn't have to be gritty & grounded, it's about an alien from the fictional planet Krypton. It can be mature & fun at the same time. I've read many excellent story ideas on this site.

There didn't really need to be a unified specific tone to the DCEU. IF the films are crowd pleasing, audiences won't care.

Yes, batman is a darker character. Superman is not. The characters can co exist without comprising or changing established character traits.

All that being said, I've enjoyed all 3 dceu films & will continue to watch the rest of the series. In the back of my mind, I just wish they took their time. Forget Marvel / disney & focus on your own catalog of characters.

 

[Thundercrack85]

I am liking all the DC movies but there does seem to be a problem with how the general audience views them. What is going on? Is the Snyderverse going down the wrong way?

He gets Batman, I think. Problem is he wants everything to be Batman.

Man of Steel was so needlessly dark. I could write a book on all the things wrong with Batman vs Superman.

Not sure if I want to watch Suicide Squad.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

The problem is simple. WB never wanted to do this to begin with but felt obligated to shareholders that wanted a shared universe. Man of Steel was never intended to launch a Cinematic Universe, that much is obvious and now Snyder and Co are forced to make it up as they go along.

 

[jmc]

Weak foundations. It's as simple as that. A universe originally created to be a stand alone Superman movie was turned into something it was never originally meant to be. The DCEU is weak because it was built from the top down. There was no ground work done. I had plenty to say about Marvel's phase one films being pretty vanilla, but it got them to where they are now, there's no denying it. They started at the bottom and worked their way up.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

They got a guy who thinks Batman murdered someone in TDKR (indicating he didn't read it clearly) and someone who proudly admitted to reading comics with only sex and violence in it to head their universe.

They got a guy who thinks the only way to know that killing is wrong is to have done it yourself first. A guy who thinks it was okay for Superman to level buildings because space Nazi's in Star Wars TFA blew up some planets. A guy that thinks he grew up Superman by making him an angsty dbag.

A guy who thinks Batman blatantly murdering someone is actually manslaughter. Proving that he doesn't know basic terms and their meaning.

Need I say more?

 

[TheVileOne]

It's systemic of the success of The Avengers.

The Avengers was so successful, that many wanted to follow suit and try to do the same thing.

The saying is everyone in Hollywood loves to come in second. No one wants to take the risk to do something first. So because everyone is scrambling to try and catch up to do what Marvel built...of course it's going to be half-baked.

 

[metaphysician]

I'd put my money on a mix of "Snyder" and "playing catch-up" myself. Though the more time passes, the more I think "incompetent execs" is part of the trifecta.

 

[iham32]

So many answers, yet they are all right. That's how bad these movies/universe is.

 

[RodtheMan]

The tone they are going for isn't what bothers me. I just feel like the way they edit some of these movies really interferes with the storytelling. Watching BvS and SS, you could tell that there were some pacing and editing issues with how strung together some of the scenes were. The studio interference has to be kept to a minimum. Just let the filmmakers tell the stories they want to tell, instead of leaving us wondering what could have been. I enjoyed MoS greatly, but haven't really cared for the other DCEU movies. I still have hope they can right the ship, but they have to let these stories blossom or else they will be continually doomed to fail.