Arrow Is this show gradually sliding into the ugly "Smallville" effect?

[Mutant 77]

Smallville effect:

Everyone starts to discover the identity of the lead character, or certain situations happening on screen makes almost impossible not to think all characters are on the verge to discover/suspect the lead character's secret identity.
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Too many "super" characters crowding the show and making it more and more hard to consider "plausible".

Just saying, I love ARROW and loved the "Nolanesque" little touch he had. Hopefully quality will not drop in Season 3.

 

[JC00]

Not sure where you got this theory from.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Is that the Smallville effect? The consistent criticism I heard about Smallville was the dragging their feet to not make him Superman before the end of the show. It was more about stalling rather than character progression. Am I wrong?

 

[Dr. Remy Lebeau]

I think Arrow is volumes better than Smallville. The problem with that show was that it started out as a Buffy rip-off then attempted to become something completely different. What it was trying to become was cool (a superhero team show), but because of where it started it never quite managed to make the transition (getting rid of Chloe and Lana early would have been great). Also the slow burn of Clark turning into Superman was way too slow and a little too burny.
Arrow has been consistent from the beginning. The tone is darker and more consistent than Smallville, and there are very few annoying characters.

Although my response is not exactly directly addressing Supperhero's concerns, I have to say I doubt the quality of the show will drop. I think it will continue to get better.

 

[Sawyer]

I'm not even entirely sure what point you're trying to make here, but no. It's not.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Not sure I'd say that what you described was what was wrong with Smallville.

 

[Sawyer]

Yeah, I mean, overall I think I hated just as much about Smallville as I loved, but too many characters knowing about the hero was not a problem for the show at all. If anything, Clark took too goddamn long to spit it out to some of the characters. Not telling Lana who he was caused more drama than it was worth and I thank God that Laurel knows about Ollie now, because that would've caused unnecessary drama for ****ing YEARS to come.

 

[p4poetic]

If Arrow was Smallville it would have taken about entire three seasons to get where Oliver has progressed to now.

 

[Sawyer]

If Arrow was Smallville it would have taken about entire three seasons to get where Oliver has progressed to now.

So..... an extra season?

 

[Richard Grayson]

If Arrow was Smallville it would have taken about entire three seasons to get where Oliver has progressed to now.

more like four or five seasons lol

 

[vantheman77]

Is that the Smallville effect? The consistent criticism I heard about Smallville was the dragging their feet to not make him Superman before the end of the show. It was more about stalling rather than character progression. Am I wrong?

Not you're not as Smallville in a way was one big stall when it came to Clark not flying and wearing the suit until the finale.

In seasons 5-7, he was stationary and only cared about his relationship with Lana while everyone else around him moved forward.

In seasons 8-10, Clark finally moved forward where he was working at the Daily Planet, developed a secret identity, wore a prototype suit, worked with other super-heroes, moved on from Lana Lang to Lois Lane, and trained in the Fortress.

 

[Rocketman]

The only thing I'm worried about is how villains are morphing into protagonists and vice versa. Sort of like pro-wrestling where wrestlers turn "heel" and turn "babyface." If I'm going to hate or love someone, I want to ACTUALLY love of hate them and stick to it. Otherwise I don't know what to feel.

Deadshot - seemed to turn into an anti-hero / ally in later episodes. Um, hello? He killed Digg's brother, and now the two are joining forces AGAIN? Why do we LIKE Deadshot all of a sudden? Why is the Suicide Squad COOL?

Roy Harper - went "heel" with the Mirakuru, then changed back.

Deathstroke - went from ally, to villain, and now he might switch back to anti-hero in Season 3.

Merlyn - full-blown heel, and then you almost sort of liked that he returned to save Thea at the end of Season 2. (It doesn't help that John Barrowman is so awesome, lol.)

Huntress - went from killer, to anti-hero, to hero, back to full-blown psychopath/villain.

Sebastian Blood - Sort of "redeemed" himself at the end of Season 2 - suddenly an ally.

And there are more minor examples, with Thea, Moira, Laurel, Quentin, the entire League of Assassins (including Nyssa Al Ghul), Isabel Rochev, etc.

Look, I get that having characters stay in the "grey area" makes for good drama and keeps things interesting... but for some of the characters above, having such a jarring tonal shift is kind of noticeable. I REALLY hope they don't pull a huge 180 with Deathstroke in Season 3, because I think that's the one line they can't cross without pissing some people off. We spent half a season hating the guy because he was tearing Oliver's city into shambles, and now we're ROOTING for him? It's not going to fly.

An argument could be made that as long as the trinity of Oliver/Felicity/Diggle stays unchanged without a hero/villain shift, that's the glue that will continue holding the whole show together, and I think that's what it does. Keep them the same - let everything around them change as much as you want.

 

[JC00]

Deadshot - seemed to turn into an anti-hero / ally in later episodes. Um, hello? He killed Digg's brother, and now the two are joining forces AGAIN? Why do we LIKE Deadshot all of a sudden? Why is the Suicide Squad COOL?

Deadshot is not that different from the comics. He's been an anti-hero as much as he has been a villain. It fact there was a point in the comics where he waged war on the street gangs in Star City because his daughter lives there.

Roy Harper - went "heel" with the Mirakuru, then changed back.

He went heel in the comics for a time.

Deathstroke - went from ally, to villain, and now he might switch back to anti-hero in Season 3.

Nothing really different from the comics. He worked for the military, gained enhanced powers, and then went bad.

There is also nothing that indicated he would be switching to an anti-hero.

Merlyn - full-blown heel, and then you almost sort of liked that he returned to save Thea at the end of Season 2.

He's still a villain. People that liked it, liked it because of what it setup in terms of direction of a storyline. People aren't saying "Merlyn returned for Thea so I don't think him of him as a villain anymore". I think it cemented him even more as a villain as really the only reason he returned was there was an opening where he knew Oliver was distracted and he could get to Thea and try to convince her to come with him. While his initial plea didn't work in the end Thea still went with him and now the "Hero's" only remaining living relative (that he knows about) is with one of his arch-enemies.

Huntress - went from killer, to anti-hero, to hero, back to full-blown psychopath/villain.

and what looks to be on the road back to a hero.

But ya can't deny this one. They royally screwed up on Huntress. They should have stuck closer to her comic book origins and not had her trying to commit patricide at any cost.

Sebastian Blood - Sort of "redeemed" himself at the end of Season 2 - suddenly an ally.

And yet Blood still got what was coming to him. Death. I don't think very many were upset about that. Which tells me he wasn't redeemed of everything he did.

 

[Loki882]

Plus, Merlyn having ONE person that he actually truly cares about doesn't make him any less evil or psychotic. He's still a psychopathic mass murderer who happens to care/give a damn about his own daughter, nothing more. As others have said, Deadshot and Deathstroke have both fluctuated between being straight-up villains and being anti-heroes in the comics as well. They've also been the in-between option of "villains who have a certain warped code of ethics." And Roy has also done the whole "broody and violent" thing in the comics to.

 

[Mike Murdock]

And yet Blood still got what was coming to him. Death. I don't think very many were upset about that. Which tells me he wasn't redeemed of everything he did.

Nor was he even repentant. He just didn't like the cost of his plan. He made it clear he would keep on as mayor even though he only gained the job through the murder of Oliver's mother. In fact, I'm surprised he didn't survive so he could continue being a minor villain in the future.

 

[Ryder]

Smallville was the mother (or father) of DC superhero shows.

Any superhero show would be lucky to be smallville and emulate it sucess.

 

[smallville fan]

Not sure I'd say that what you described was what was wrong with Smallville.

Ditto. Not that there was anything even remotely ugly about the show even in the first place. In fact I say:

Smallville was the mother (or father) of DC superhero shows.

Any superhero show would be lucky to be smallville and emulate it sucess.

 

[TheHighlander]

Smallville was great.... to a degree.. what is wrong with having and focusing on a relationship? Why not? It does bother me the "not wearing tights" not even on the finale from Tom Welling.... But what I wanted to see more than Clark's progression towards Superman(and we got) was the development of Lex Luthor. Lex has never been this developed before and Michael Rossenbaum made the best Lex Luthor Ever.

 

[AspieXLDS]

To the OP: I think you've got a few misconceptions. The problem with "Smallville" was not that too many knew Clark's secret. In fact, the primary reason for stagnation was that often, only one or two of the series regulars at a time knew Clark's secret and so there was a lot more teen angsty drama than Smallville. My biggest bone to pick was that Seasons 8 and 9 were focused less on Clark's journey and more on Chloe and Oliver. This is, of course, other than the points about 'no tights, no flights' and the other weird little rules they held themselves to.

In regards to the points Arrow delves into 'Smallville-esque' moments: it's been talked about both on this board and others across the Internet that the main characters we've seen doing that this season has been Laurel and Thea. Thea was cleared, in a way, because she actually is a 'teenager' in the show. Laurel, from what she reveals in the latter part of the season, put her own development 'on hold' and went through her plans (other than marrying Oliver, etc.) on automatic because she had to keep it together for her Dad, and that mounted the stress that eventually broke with Tommy's death. I don't think that equates a decent 'island moment' for Laurel, but they did do a good job explaining the reasons she acted that way. In truth, that is very real way people deal with grief: in that they sometimes swallow it and bury it until the next death of one close to them pushes them over the edge. I know this personally.

Now, surprisingly, the issue that's not an issue for me at all is Oliver's enemies learning who he is, even if its only near the end (as is the case for both Blood and Merlyn), since that adds dimensions to their conflicts and they have all their cards on the table. Season 3 promises to be interesting, since I suspect the Dark Archer will be a reluctant ally but still plotting against Oliver. Since he'll be a series regular, I doubt we'll be seeing him and Oliver not meeting up. Only reason I don't think they'll have Merlyn be Oliver's main enemy for next season is because they tend to reveal the adversary in Episode 9. In Season 1, it was the Dark Archer. In Season 2, it was Slade. In Season 3, I suspect Ra's Al'Ghul (because I can't think of anyone whom Merlyn and Oliver would join forces to fight against).

 

[Human Torch]

Look, I get that having characters stay in the "grey area" makes for good drama and keeps things interesting... but for some of the characters above, having such a jarring tonal shift is kind of noticeable. I REALLY hope they don't pull a huge 180 with Deathstroke in Season 3, because I think that's the one line they can't cross without pissing some people off. We spent half a season hating the guy because he was tearing Oliver's city into shambles, and now we're ROOTING for him? It's not going to fly.

Yeah,I really don't want to be cheering Malcolm.I think he should remain the complete heel.Deathstroke......I could buy a begrudging alliance at some point under duress,but the dude killed his mother,it's a tough sell for him to make a 180 (Mirikuru influence notwithstanding)

 

[Guts]

Deathstroke - went from ally, to villain, and now he might switch back to anti-hero in Season 3.

One of the last things that slade said to oliver in the finale was "You think I won't get out of here? You think I won't kill those you care for?"

I think that means that he is still a villain.

 

[Grommers]

One of the last things that slade said to oliver in the finale was "You think I won't get out of here? You think I won't kill those you care for?"

I think that means that he is still a villain.

I dunno, those are very loving and caring words.

And we all know..

Slade cares.

 

[Broseph44]

I'm not even entirely sure what point you're trying to make here, but no. It's not.

 

[DrCosmic]

Agreed. Smallville's problem was stagnation, driven by Welling's refusal to play Superman and CW's refusal to end the show at a reasonable time. So everything was draaaaged out.

Arrow is actually *too* anti-smallville and has actually made short almost anti-climactic work of some of Arrow's most prolific villains such as Constantine Drakon and Count Vertigo. Those guys should have been dragged out, imho.

I think the only problem Arrow will have from Smallville is that it's full of archers, as though that's like a default setting for costumed guys. Arrow, Roy, Merlyn, Nyssa, and maybe even Speedy all bow slinging because... guns are for losers? That's a little ridiculous. But a bunch of ex-military ex-assassin type trained fighters congregating, that's not actually stretching credibility, that's normal, and makes sense to me.

The over-drama of the CW is actually good for Arrow, and I generally enjoy it. They do better than Smallville's loopy love storylines which at some point resembled a harem anime, if I recall correctly. Of course, if Laurel marries Merlyn, I will retract that statement immediately.

 

[Lencho01]

Smallville was never meant to be about Superman. Just Clark Kent. But, once they really had no other stories to tell and started adding so many Superman elements to keep things relatively interesting before he was even so, it lead to issues.