It was all part of the plan.

[acedrake]

From the beginning of Man of Steel I always knew that there was a grand design for The DCEU. And with BvS it was cemented in my my mind that Superman was going back to be DC premier superhero. Of course there are quite a lot of people in this board and across the interwebs that have a very negative outlook for Snider's vision for Superman and the whole DCEU. One thing that I love about these heroes is that they have hard lives and they are human with problems and life does not go well for them. I am very glad DC is very different to Marvel and I hope that Whedon will not try copy The Avengers. Snider's world is very hard on our heroes and they will grow as heroes and be worthy of their moniker Superheroes. What do you think?

 

[BlueLightning]

As for the "so called plan", the facts just doesn't hold this proposition.

If you follow through the thought train, (based on interviews and reports made at the time) that forced to the world Batman v. Superman, is clear that there wasn't a plan in the first place.

 

[Mandon Knight]

Interviews recorded and statements made by the entire Production Team, across the board, said MoS was made as a Superman story first & foremost with a collection of points that could open up a wider universe should the opportunity exist to broaden something that could be held up as a pointer to a so called DCEU.

So at that point there was intent of a wider universe without there being a 'road map' as such, the 'opportunity' arose with the decision to introduce Batman and then WW in BvS which opened up the doors to all.

So a plan from the start, yes, to the wish to expand and MoS being the launching point, something Goyer & Snyder held stock in, they stressed at the time of release, a Superman story launch would have to be the nucleus of a an acorn for a wider universe but the nuts and bolts of how the universe would unfold is a later decision, IMO.

 

[gdw]

As for the "so called plan", the facts just doesn't hold this proposition.

If you follow through the thought train, (based on interviews and reports made at the time) that forced to the world Batman v. Superman, is clear that there wasn't a plan in the first place.

While there may not have been an explicit plan outlined from the start of MOS, Snyder was CLEARLY aiming somewhere.

That said, by the time things started coming together for BvS, Snyder undeniably had a plan in mind. It was even explicitly stated BEFORE the release of BvS, well BEFORE any of the negative feedback and fallout from BvS.

Chris Terrio gave the gist of it in an interview that was published about a month or two before the release of BvS. He stated that the plan was for BvS to bring the heroes to their lowest points, and for JL to be the START of the journey towards the light and hope.

The only thing that was "changed" was that they compressed some of the plans that were initially spread out over TWO JL films. Hence why JL was originally only the START of the journey.

So, the so called "course correction" was largely taking where Snyder wanted the heroes to be at the end of JL 2, and bringing them there, or closer to there, by the end of JL 1.

This ALWAYS was the plan for Snyder/direction he was aiming from the start. He was just was going to drag it out FAR more than anyone else wanted, or needed.

So, while the general trajectory is still based on Snyder's plans/intentions, I think (based on what limited info we have) that the "changes" are for the better, speeding the timeline up, and pushing a little further into the light than, I think, Snyder can even see.

 

[chintai80]

While there may not have been an explicit plan outlined from the start of MOS, Snyder was CLEARLY aiming somewhere.

That said, by the time things started coming together for BvS, Snyder undeniably had a plan in mind. It was even explicitly stated BEFORE the release of BvS, well BEFORE any of the negative feedback and fallout from BvS.

Chris Terrio gave the gist of it in an interview that was published about a month or two before the release of BvS. He stated that the plan was for BvS to bring the heroes to their lowest points, and for JL to be the START of the journey towards the light and hope.

The only thing that was "changed" was that they compressed some of the plans that were initially spread out over TWO JL films. Hence why JL was originally only the START of the journey.

So, the so called "course correction" was largely taking where Snyder wanted the heroes to be at the end of JL 2, and bringing them there, or closer to there, by the end of JL 1.

This ALWAYS was the plan for Snyder/direction he was aiming from the start. He was just was going to drag it out FAR more than anyone else wanted, or needed.

So, while the general trajectory is still based on Snyder's plans/intentions, I think (based on what limited info we have) that the "changes" are for the better, speeding the timeline up, and pushing a little further into the light than, I think, Snyder can even see.

^ pretty much this.

 

[All-Father]

As for the "so called plan", the facts just doesn't hold this proposition.

If you follow through the thought train, (based on interviews and reports made at the time) that forced to the world Batman v. Superman, is clear that there wasn't a plan in the first place.

This. WB/DC hardly had a plan. They only reacted to what the MCU was already doing.

 

[FunkMiller]

Man Of Steel 2 was never originally meant to be BvS. There may have been a plan from BvS going forward, but that got **** canned when BvS underperformed and stank up the place critically. Since then, they’ve been flailing, but are hopefully now getting on some kind of track now Justice League is done.

 

[Jumpman]

While there may not have been an explicit plan outlined from the start of MOS, Snyder was CLEARLY aiming somewhere.

That said, by the time things started coming together for BvS, Snyder undeniably had a plan in mind. It was even explicitly stated BEFORE the release of BvS, well BEFORE any of the negative feedback and fallout from BvS.

Chris Terrio gave the gist of it in an interview that was published about a month or two before the release of BvS. He stated that the plan was for BvS to bring the heroes to their lowest points, and for JL to be the START of the journey towards the light and hope.

The only thing that was "changed" was that they compressed some of the plans that were initially spread out over TWO JL films. Hence why JL was originally only the START of the journey.

So, the so called "course correction" was largely taking where Snyder wanted the heroes to be at the end of JL 2, and bringing them there, or closer to there, by the end of JL 1.

This ALWAYS was the plan for Snyder/direction he was aiming from the start. He was just was going to drag it out FAR more than anyone else wanted, or needed.

So, while the general trajectory is still based on Snyder's plans/intentions, I think (based on what limited info we have) that the "changes" are for the better, speeding the timeline up, and pushing a little further into the light than, I think, Snyder can even see.

Yeah. And while WB probably did a crap ton of hand holding on the production of JL, the basic gist of Snyder's plan was this. It wasn't a straight line, mind you, but the plan eventually got to where he was going to go in the first place.

 

[Mandon Knight]

This. WB/DC hardly had a plan. They only reacted to what the MCU was already doing.

Yes, because they've copied every step, haven't they.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Man Of Steel was never originally meant to be BvS. There may have been a plan from BvS going forward, but that got **** canned when BvS underperformed and stank up the place critically. Since then, they’ve been flailing, but are hopefully now getting on some kind of track now Justice League is done.

This is where I’m at. Though I’m no longer interested in arguing/trash talking past efforts when the future seems somewhat promising

 

[kguillou]

I think regardless of whether or not WB forced him to put Batman in the sequel, I think the general story arc of Superman is where Snyder wanted to go from the beginning. I think he always had a life/death/rebirth story in mind regardless of whether the Justice League would be involved. The general 3 act structure would've been the same.

 

[BlueLightning]

I'm talking about the time it was decided to bring Batman to the mix prior Man of Steel 2 becoming Batman v. Superman. That's the point where the idea juggling seemed to be out of control. And then the consequences are well known.

 

[OdinSon]

Man Of Steel was never originally meant to be BvS. There may have been a plan from BvS going forward, but that got **** canned when BvS underperformed and stank up the place critically. Since then, they’ve been flailing, but are hopefully now getting on some kind of track now Justice League is done.

This.

 

[BlueLightning]

I'm going to leave this right here.

 

[heatvision38]

Some of us have been saying for a while that there was an arc here: "They will race behind you, they will fall, but in time, they will join you in the sun."

-- Baptism, Death, Resurrection--

All that applies to Superman also applies to the DCEU.

There has been discussion about this for so long, with even Terrio stating this is what would happen even before BvS came out, yet people still don't believe it to be true. While I think it's possible that they lightened up JL more than they would have initially, it was still meant to be more "fun" than BvS given the dynamics between the group, the Breakfast Club aspect as someone here put it.

 

[BlueLightning]

That line of thought doesn't follow. That quote wasn't about Superman, it was about mankind. Pulling a quote from All-Star Superman didn't guarantee that the Man of Steel film (or the DCEU) would hold true to character and ideals.

 

[heatvision38]

That line of thought doesn't follow. That quote wasn't about Superman, it was about mankind. Pulling a quote from All-Star Superman didn't guarantee that the Man of Steel film (or the DCEU) would hold true to character and ideals.

The line was pointing out that there would be trials and tribulations before the world accept and embrace Superman and what he stands for.

 

[BlueLightning]

And how does that relate to:

-- Baptism, Death, Resurrection--

All that applies to Superman also applies to the DCEU.

?

 

[FunkMiller]

Some of us have been saying for a while that there was an arc here: "They will race behind you, they will fall, but in time, they will join you in the sun."

-- Baptism, Death, Resurrection--

All that applies to Superman also applies to the DCEU.

There has been discussion about this for so long, with even Terrio stating this is what would happen even before BvS came out, yet people still don't believe it to be true. While I think it's possible that they lightened up JL more than they would have initially, it was still meant to be more "fun" than BvS given the dynamics between the group, the Breakfast Club aspect as someone here put it.

This is the mother of all stretches. You’re directly quoting something that originally had nothing to do with the DCEU, to claim that a plan was always in place for it. Those lines are in that film for the same reason Batman says “the world only makes sense, when you force it to” in BvS - because they came from a celebrated comic.

 

[All-Father]

Some of us have been saying for a while that there was an arc here: "They will race behind you, they will fall, but in time, they will join you in the sun."

-- Baptism, Death, Resurrection--

All that applies to Superman also applies to the DCEU.

There has been discussion about this for so long, with even Terrio stating this is what would happen even before BvS came out, yet people still don't believe it to be true. While I think it's possible that they lightened up JL more than they would have initially, it was still meant to be more "fun" than BvS given the dynamics between the group, the Breakfast Club aspect as someone here put it.

Brilliant. Too bad it makes no sense.

 

[2kt09]

I'm going to leave this right here.

That's some stellar confirmation.

1. The first one's pretty pointless, though.
   

   “We like to take it one step at a time and not curse anything. It’s that kind of thing so we’ll see what happens.” - ZS (Oct 2012)

2. The next link, one year later, is the juicy one for sure:
   

   Spoiler

   "...Zack has said that Bruce Wayne exists in this universe. It would be a different Bruce Wayne from Chris’ [Nolan] Dark Knight trilogy, and it would be disingenuous to say that Zack and I haven’t had various conversations on set, around ‘what if’ and ‘moving forward’.
   
   That having been said, it’s all going to depend on the next few weeks. Warner Bros has hopes that there will be more Man Of Steel films, and that this will be the beginning of a shared universe. We could meet Batman, or Wonder Woman, or the Justice League in these movies. But they all hinge on box office reception.
   
   And if we can do Batman and Superman, then maybe we can move on to Wonder Woman, and The Flash, and characters like that.
   
   If Lex is going to exist in the world, we would presumably have to give him the same treatment that we gave Lois Lane in the first film, which is make him a credible character. […] He’s gotta be a man of incredible intelligence, and presumably a man of incredible wealth and incredible resources."

   -Goyer (day of MoS's release)

3. The 3rd one is essentially Cavill equates a solo = MoS sequel, to put more emphasis on the BvS and DoJ angle. (April 2015)
   
4. The 4th one shows Snyder wanted an antagonistic Bruce Wayne whilst talking with Nolan & Goyer (July 2015); refer back to Goyer's quote
   
5. Based on the first paragraph of Goyer's quote, Snyder goes on to expand that part of a "different Batman" in the 5th link. (September 2015)
   

6. “I think in a way ‘Batman v Superman’ is ‘Man of Steel 2’. ‘Justice League’ is kind of the transcendent, knights-of-the-round-table of the story. It’d be interesting to think about what a standalone Superman movie might be.” -Snyder (September 2015)

   Pretty self-explanatory on my end.

7. The outlet went on to ask Snyder about comments he made last week wherein he teased a “bigger enemy to fight” in Justice League. Snyder wouldn’t divulge which character he was referring to, be it Darkseid, Brainiac, or another, but went on to say:
   
   “Well, you have Doomsday, right? He doesn’t just crawl out of the ground. He has his own mythology, right? So that has to be explored…” (Jan 2015)

   That's where Steppenwolf's parademons come in, right?

 

[BlueLightning]

That's some stellar confirmation.

That they kinda make these films as they went to see what stuck? Sure.

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with that. If only they took it with care for the story and characters instead of cramming everything they could.

 

[heatvision38]

Brilliant. Too bad it makes no sense.

Care to explain how? I said my part. I'd like to see others do theirs.

 

[heatvision38]

And how does that relate to:


?

Snyder was going for Messianic parallels with Superman. MOS is his baptism by fire. BvS was his death. JL will be his rebirth. And with his rebirth, the DC world will be brought into a new era ("They will join you in the sun", ie, it will be brighter world).

 

[heatvision38]

That they kinda make these films as they went to see what stuck? Sure.

Honestly, there's nothing wrong with that. If only they took it with care for the story and characters instead of cramming everything they could.

I think there's two aspects to this: one is that they made MOS and had some ideas of how it could be a shared universe if it did well (they did add the Lex and Wayne Industries easter eggs), so at that point, they didn't have a definitive plan of where it would go, but the possibilities were there. As they were planning Step 2 (after MOS), that's when it seemed that they were going for a larger narrative, with Superman being its central theme (Terrio before BvS described this as a trilogy of sorts for Superman).

Snyder even tells a story that he had an idea that at the end of MOS 2 (during the initial exploration stage), left at the Wayne Manor doorstep was kryptonite: https://www.cosmicbooknews.com/content/zack-snyder-reveals-man-steel-2-ending

Point being, did they plan everything perfectly from the get-go before MOS even started? Probably not. But it does seem like as they were planning MOS 2, they evolved into BvS, and were able to take what they had with MOS and expand on its themes into BvS and then into JL and beyond. In other words, to quote JRR Tolkien, the story grew in its telling... but it became more concretized early on (post MOS).