Judge Orders Bakery to Serve Gay Couple

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

In July 2012, a Colorado baker turned away a cake order after he found out that the cake was for a same-sex marriage. On Friday, a judge found that the baker must serve the gay couple or face fines.

Judge Robert N. Spencer found that Masterpiece Cakeshop, which is located just outside of Denver, discriminated against Charlie Craig and David Mullins "because of their sexual orientation by refusing to sell them a wedding cake for their same-sex marriage."

The cease and desist came after the American Civil Liberties Union filed a complaint against the bakery's owner, Jack Phillips. The couple had been married in Massachusetts, but were celebrating in Colorado.

The lawyer for the cake shop tried to paint the owner in a positive light. "He can't violate his conscience in order to collect a paycheck," the lawyer, Nicolle Martin, said. "If Jack can't make wedding cakes, he can't continue to support his family. And in order to make wedding cakes, Jack must violate his belief system. That is a reprehensible choice. It is antithetical to everything America stands for."

The judge addressed a store owner's right to refuse service:

"At first blush, it may seem reasonable that a private business should be able to refuse service to anyone it chooses. This view, however, fails to take into account the cost to society and the hurt caused to persons who are denied service simply because of who they are."
David Mullins, who was refused service, hoped that the "decision will help ensure that no one else will experience this kind of discrimination again in Colorado."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...ders-colorado-baker-to-serve-gay-couples?lite

Not sure how I feel about this, on the one hand I think the LGBT community should be treated as equals and with respect but on the other hand if some judge tells me I have to DJ a party I don't want to or pay fines that goes against everything America stands for

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I wouldn't even want a cake after they refused to serve me. And if ordered to do it, that makes it even worse. They could spit in the cake or other nasty s**t.

 

[The Question]

Not sure how I feel about this, on the one hand I think the LGBT community should be treated as equals and with respect but on the other hand if some judge tells me I have to DJ a party I don't want to or pay fines that goes against everything America stands for

One of the things America (is supposed to) stand for is people not being treated like crap for ******** reasons. I am 100% okay with this. I don't see what the problem is in limiting someone's freedom to be a bigoted *****ebag.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

Not sure how I feel about this, on the one hand I think the LGBT community should be treated as equals and with respect but on the other hand if some judge tells me I have to DJ a party I don't want to or pay fines that goes against everything America stands for

It depends on the reason you would refuse to DJ the party I guess. If your reason comes from discriminatory believes it is also against everything America stands for, I think.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

I wouldn't even want a cake after they refused to serve me. And if ordered to do it, that makes it even worse. They could spit in the cake or other nasty s**t.

Idem but I would order the cake and find a reason to refuse the command and not pay.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Well I'm totally open minded and hardly ever refuse to do a party but it still seems kind of wrong to MAKE him do it. The guy is a complete *****ewad and a close minded jackass but it's still his right to feel and believe in whatever he wants

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

He still has the right to feel and believe in whatever he wants but he can't refuse to serve clients because of them.

 

[Tanin]

He still has the right to feel and believe in whatever he wants but he can't refuse to serve clients because of them.

It depends on the state actually. Each state has it's own laws regarding the right to refuse service.

 

[The Question]

He has the right to be an idiot and a terrible person, but he doesn't have the right to act on his stupidity and lack of basic human decency, and I really feel that it's the government's duty to both restrict his ability to act on his terribleness and make a very clear and loud public statement that this is not a matter of opinion and that he is objectively wrong and an awful person.

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

It depends on the state actually. Each state has it's own laws regarding the right to refuse service.

Thanks for the info.

 

[jonathancrane]

Why would they want a cake from him after all of that? Seriously, is he one of those award-winning bakers or the only one in the state?

 

[The Question]

Why would they want a cake from him after all of that?

Gloating, probably.

 

[Tanin]

Why would they want a cake from him after all of that?

So they can humiliate the company for as long as possible.



Oh and fighting for their rights some too maybe....depending on the person of course.

 

[SentinelMind]

He has the right to be an idiot and a terrible person, but he doesn't have the right to act on his stupidity and lack of basic human decency, and I really feel that it's the government's duty to both restrict his ability to act on his terribleness and make a very clear and loud public statement that this is not a matter of opinion and that he is objectively wrong and an awful person.

This is probably the most judgmental post of a stranger I've read in a long while. A business owner can't determine what type of services he wants to provide? Is gay marriage even mandated in his state? What's with these activist judges?

 

[The Question]

This is probably the most judgmental post of a stranger I've read in a long while.

Okay. So? I have zero respect for people who think that there's something wrong with homosexuals or gay marriage. It's a terrible opinion to have, and it is itself infinitely more judgmental and in a much worse way.

Really, calling me judgmental for looking down on someone who doesn't like homosexuals is hypocritical.

A business owner can't determine what type of services he wants to provide?

Not if he denies service on the grounds that "gay people are icky," no.

Is gay marriage even mandated in his state?

I would assume so, if people are getting married there.

What's with these activist judges?

They're trying to make life better for people who've been shat on by society for nonsense reasons. Basically, they're being good people.

 

[SentinelMind]

It says they were married in Massachussetts but celebrating in Colorado.

Refusing to provide a service to someone doesn't necessarily mean you think you're better than that person, but you feel the activity is inappropriate or violates your values. Writing a post that they're a 'terrible' human being is pretty overtly critical. You're saying it because of the guys value system pertaining to lifestyle. It's one thing to disagree, but when you calm down and reread your posts...I hope you'd see it was pretty hyperbolic.

 

[SentinelMind]

It is objectively wrong to not treat homosexuality and heterosexuality the same? But I quote the Bible, you'll respond, "that's just your opinion..." ...the hypocrisy is outstanding.

 

[The Question]

It says they were married in Massachussetts but celebrating in Colorado.

Okay.

Refusing to provide a service to someone doesn't necessarily mean you think you're better than that person, but you feel the activity is inappropriate or violates your values.

Which is discrimination. Which is a bunch of ********.

Writing a post that they're a 'terrible' human being is pretty overtly critical.

But saying that two men who love each other getting married is inappropriate and violates your values isn't overtly critical?

You're saying it because of the guys value system pertaining to lifestyle.

And it's a ****** and morally reprehensible value system.

It's one thing to disagree, but when you calm down and reread your posts...I hope you'd see it was pretty hyperbolic.

1: I am perfectly calm.

2: It's not hyperbolic. If someone's value system says that a homosexual relationship is inherently wrong, that value system and that person have terrible bigoted morals. Being a bigot makes someone a terrible person.

This is not and will never be an "agree to disagree" situation. Civil rights are an all or nothing deal.

It is objectively wrong to not treat homosexuality and heterosexuality the same? But I quote the Bible, you'll respond, "that's just your opinion..." ...the hypocrisy is outstanding.

That's not hypocrisy. Some things are objectively right and wrong. Other things are matters of opinion.

 

[Dr.]

In most jurisdictions (in western democracies) the right-to-refuse-service does not/cannot countermand extant civil rights protections. A place of “public accommodation” (like a bakery) is not allowed to discriminate.

 

[SentinelMind]

Which is discrimination. Which is a bunch of ********.

It's posts like this that questions your claim that your calm. What's with the profanity? Yes, it is discrimination. Discrimination in of itself is not always bad or hatred of a person.
Military, senior ticket discounts are form of discrimination. Age requirements for driving and cigarettes are discrimination. Women only gyms and women only insurance companies are forms of discrimination. Age/body-type discrimination for applying for a job at Santa Clause at the mall, a job at Hooters, or lead role in a movie involves some form of ....DISCRIMINATION. It's not always whatever profane word you were typing.

But saying that two men who love each other getting married is inappropriate and violates your values isn't overtly critical?

Forcing business owner to partake in your activity is pretty hypocritical and inconsistent with declaration of freedom that this country is supposedly founded on. Mandating dogmatic approval of your lifestyle that businesses must change their services to celebrate is nearly fascistic.

And it's a ****** and morally reprehensible value system.



1: I am perfectly calm.

2: It's not hyperbolic. If someone's value system says that a homosexual relationship is inherently wrong, that value system and that person have terrible bigoted morals. Being a bigot makes someone a terrible person.

This is not and will never be an "agree to disagree" situation. Civil rights are an all or nothing deal.

Define civil rights. Be very careful here.

That's not hypocrisy. Some things are objectively right and wrong. Other things are matters of opinion.

I agree...your post is an opinion supported by profane, attack-the-messenger statements masquerading an objective, universal statement. But at the end of day it is an opinion,...nobody is required to look at homosexual activity and heterosexual activity and conclude they are the same.

 

[Snow Queen]

Forcing business owner to partake in your activity is pretty hypocritical and inconsistent with declaration of freedom that this country is supposedly founded on. Mandating dogmatic approval of your lifestyle that businesses must change their services to celebrate is nearly fascistic.

They are not being forced to go and have them married. They are not being forced to change their services. They are being forced to not discriminate. I wonder if you'd be singing the same tune if they discriminated against a black couple or interracial couple or a couple because they're Christian.

Would you be okay if you were refused service for, let's say, being Christian?

 

[The Question]

They are not being forced to go and have them married. They are not being forced to change their services. They are being forced to not discriminate. I wonder if you'd be singing the same tune if they discriminated against a black couple or interracial couple or a couple because they're Christian.

Would you be okay if you were refused service for, let's say, being Christian?

That's not going to work, because he honestly (and wrongly) believes that there is something wrong with being a homosexual, while being a Christian or in an interracial relationship is completely innocuous.

 

[SentinelMind]

They are not being forced to go and have them married. They are not being forced to change their services. They are being forced to not discriminate. I wonder if you'd be singing the same tune if they discriminated against a black couple or interracial couple or a couple because they're Christian.

Would you be okay if you were refused service for, let's say, being Christian?

The business owner doesn't want to be associated with providing cake and luxuries to a gay wedding. He would be in part participating in their wedding celebration.

If a store didn't want to provide services that partake in Christian celebrations, I'd respect decision and never walk in that person's store again. I'm not going to mandate a Islamic store to sell cross necklace.

If a store didn't want to sell to Christians simply because they were Christians, I'd be disturbed but I'd walk out and that be that.

 

[Piper Maru]

I'm in the mood for a Boston cream doughnut.

 

[SentinelMind]

That's not going to work, because he honestly (and wrongly) believes that there is something wrong with being a homosexual, while being a Christian or in an interracial relationship is completely innocuous.

It's weird you dismiss Christian morality, have a slogan saying "Objectivism doesn't work" but make absolutist statements which are merely slogans embedded into your head by leftwing think tanks and public education. Your position demanding everyone to equate two different things as the same has no foundation and is an emotional response.