The Amazing Spider-Man Keep the ORGANICS or WEB SHOOTERS???!!!!

[Carcharodon]

...but they DO use venom to paralyze.

 

[Alex The Great]

Yeah, then they wrap the prey up in webbing and eat later.

I think

 

[chaseter]

...but they DO use venom to paralyze.

Yes but it is a secondary function to make their consumption of prey easier. Their venom doesn't have to paralyze because the prey is still going to die and it is still going to be eaten. If you take the neurotoxin out of the venom, the spider is still going to be able to feed because the prey is still going to die. It might make it harder for the spider to find their prey item but the venom still serves the primary function.

Once again, snakes use their venom to kill but some of their venom also destroys tissue but they do not suck out the insides of their prey. It is merely a secondary function of the venom that they use. That is why snake and spider venom is so diverse. Some are hemotoxins, some are neurotoxins, etc. Their venom serves one purpose and all other effects are merely secondary to the primary function. A snake's venom that destroys tissue may make it quicker for the snake to digest once fully consumed...I don't know. But the purpose of the venom is to kill the prey so that it can be safely consumed. The faster digestion due to the destruction of tissue would be a secondary function to make consumption easier.

 

[Troy_Parker]

Why are people overthinking this sooo much? :|

He's most likely going to have Mechanicals because, for one thing... they were introduced first in the comics and ...to seperate this new franchise from Raimi's.

 

[Carcharodon]

Yes but it is a secondary function to make their consumption of prey easier. Their venom doesn't have to paralyze because the prey is still going to die and it is still going to be eaten. If you take the neurotoxin out of the venom, the spider is still going to be able to feed because the prey is still going to die. It might make it harder for the spider to find their prey item but the venom still serves the primary function.

Once again, snakes use their venom to kill but some of their venom also destroys tissue but they do not suck out the insides of their prey. It is merely a secondary function of the venom that they use. That is why snake and spider venom is so diverse. Some are hemotoxins, some are neurotoxins, etc. Their venom serves one purpose and all other effects are merely secondary to the primary function. A snake's venom that destroys tissue may make it quicker for the snake to digest once fully consumed...I don't know. But the purpose of the venom is to kill the prey so that it can be safely consumed. The faster digestion due to the destruction of tissue would be a secondary function to make consumption easier.

K, let me simplify this discussion:

Spiders don't use venom to paralyze...

We've established (and you've conceded) that they do.

So...where exactly is the point of contention again?

 

[chaseter]

If spiders only paralyzed their prey then they wouldn't be able to eat. Their venom is used to destroy tissue. Paralysis is a secondary function. That is my contention.

 

[Carcharodon]

If spiders only paralyzed their prey then they wouldn't be able to eat. Their venom is used to destroy tissue. Paralysis is a secondary function. That is my contention.

That's fine, but that wasn't what you said.

 

[chaseter]

Spiders don't use their venom to paralyze. They use it to liquify their food so that they can consume it. Venom that paralyzes does not allow a spider to eat. Venom that destroys tissue does. Therefore, spiders do not use their venom to paralyze. It is an evolved secondary function. That is what I said.

 

[Carcharodon]

Spiders don't use their venom to paralyze. They use it to liquify their food so that they can consume it. Venom that paralyzes does not allow a spider to eat. Venom that destroys tissue does. Therefore, spiders do not use their venom to paralyze. It is an evolved secondary function. That is what I said.

This is becoming a largely semantic debate at this point, but I can tell you that your reasoning is ultimately invalid, and I'm surprised you're having trouble seeing how. It's relatively straight-forward.

In this case, "primary" vs. "secondary" function is entirely irrelevant. Both are simply functions of the same substance. You could argue that the digestive component of the venom is more important to the overall process of feeding, but that's a far cry from saying what you said earlier: that spiders don't use their venom to paralyze. They clearly do, because that is a function of their venom, and a consequence of its introduction.

For your argument to hold any water, we have to assume an awareness on the spider's part of both its intention and the effects of the venom on its prey. A spider no more "uses" its venom for the express purpose of digestion than it "uses" its venom for a paralytic effect. Just because one is more useful for an overall goal (of which the spider probably has only a vague notion, if you could even call it that) doesn't mean that the other ceases to have a use in its own right. Paralysis facilitates feeding. So does digestion. Therefore, spiders do use their venom to paralyze prey. Well, not ALL of them perhaps, but many.

Of course, according to your reasoning, a spider doesn't use its venom for defense. I find that to be more than a little ridiculous given the potency of some spider venom, well in excess of what a spider could or would ever need to subdue suitable prey.

But what do I know?

 

[chaseter]

A spider would still be able to survive if the proteins that cause paralysis were removed from his venom because the digestive enzymes would still function. That is why spider venom is so diverse but if you break it down, all of their venoms have one thing in common.

You are right concerning defensive mechanisms...I hadn't thought of that. I was thinking purely along the lines of hunting and killing prey.

 

[Carcharodon]

A spider would still be able to survive if the proteins that cause paralysis were removed from his venom because the digestive enzymes would still function. That is why spider venom is so diverse but if you break it down, all of their venoms have one thing in common.

Entirely beside the point. My last post serves to address this point concerning the nature of "function" and "use."

You are right concerning defensive mechanisms...I hadn't thought of that. I was thinking purely along the lines of hunting and killing prey.

It all goes hand-in-hand with respect to the context of this discussion. But I'm kind of bored now. I didn't expect this to turn into quite such an extensive exchange.

 

[chaseter]

That means I win!

 

[bizbaz20]

I prefer natural.

The thing about Mechanical was if he can make an invention that brilliant wouldn't he known as a renowned as a successful scientist?

The mechanical seems a bit too conplex that he has to constantly re-fill the cartriges when they run out.

How does he have time to constantly make cartridges? Where does he keep them? How does he afford to make them?

It is believeable enough that someone who has the abilites of a spider can also produce webbing on their own. If we believe everything else, why not that?

I can see that having him make it makes him seem intelligent but there are still other ways of showing his intelligence.

 

[Pumpkin_Bomb]

The webshooters aren't that high-tech by fiction standards, and if they make them look hodge-podge enough, it'll be easy to believe that they were thrown together on a student's budget.

As for why making something like that doesn't make him some world-famous scientist... well, it's not exactly an invention that he can go public with, right? And besides, making them public wouldn't serve any purpose. They'd be virtually useless to someone without the rest of his powers, and if they did fall into the hands of someone capable of using them, with his luck, it'd be one of his enemies.

 

[Young Superman]

The webshooters aren't that high-tech by fiction standards, and if they make them look hodge-podge enough, it'll be easy to believe that they were thrown together on a student's budget.

As for why making something like that doesn't make him some world-famous scientist... well, it's not exactly an invention that he can go public with, right? And besides, making them public wouldn't serve any purpose. They'd be virtually useless to someone without the rest of his powers, and if they did fall into the hands of someone capable of using them, with his luck, it'd be one of his enemies.

Agreed

 

[thebatsam]

The webshooters aren't that high-tech by fiction standards, and if they make them look hodge-podge enough, it'll be easy to believe that they were thrown together on a student's budget.

As for why making something like that doesn't make him some world-famous scientist... well, it's not exactly an invention that he can go public with, right? And besides, making them public wouldn't serve any purpose. They'd be virtually useless to someone without the rest of his powers, and if they did fall into the hands of someone capable of using them, with his luck, it'd be one of his enemies.

Basically this

Would prefer mechanical web shooters all the way, adds a tactical side to battles as well i.e. has to conserve webbing or is out of cartridges etc

 

[Carcharodon]

As for why making something like that doesn't make him some world-famous scientist... well, it's not exactly an invention that he can go public with, right? And besides, making them public wouldn't serve any purpose. They'd be virtually useless to someone without the rest of his powers, and if they did fall into the hands of someone capable of using them, with his luck, it'd be one of his enemies.

I don't think anybody has argued against this, at least not that I've read.

Would prefer mechanical web shooters all the way, adds a tactical side to battles as well i.e. has to conserve webbing or is out of cartridges etc

He can't run out of the organic webbing? I mean, I know it never showed him running out of webbing (with the exception of his psychosomatic breakdown in Spider-Man 2), but the possibility was always there.

 

[thebatsam]

I don't think anybody has argued against this, at least not that I've read.

He can't run out of the organic webbing? I mean, I know it never showed him running out of webbing (with the exception of his psychosomatic breakdown in Spider-Man 2), but the possibility was always there.

The problem with that though is when he runs out of organic webbing how does he refill? does he have to eat a power bar? or have a nap? wouldn't seem right for him to have organic webbing and for it to run out at random times
whereas with mechanical shooters, he pops in a new cartridge and ben's your uncle!

 

[storyteller]

Why are people overthinking this sooo much? :|

He's most likely going to have Mechanicals because, for one thing... they were introduced first in the comics and ...to seperate this new franchise from Raimi's.

So what if they were introduced first. The general audience may now think that Spiderman has organic webshooters. They have already separated the franchises by casting new actors. Hell organics may be used simply to not have to build any mechanisms or write in out of webbing scenes.

 

[Carcharodon]

The problem with that though is when he runs out of organic webbing how does he refill? does he have to eat a power bar? or have a nap? wouldn't seem right for him to have organic webbing and for it to run out at random times
whereas with mechanical shooters, he pops in a new cartridge and ben's your uncle!

You said this:

Would prefer mechanical web shooters all the way, adds a tactical side to battles as well i.e. has to conserve webbing or is out of cartridges etc

According to what you've written above, wouldn't organics provide even MORE of a tactical aspect to battles?

 

[thebatsam]

You said this:



According to what you've written above, wouldn't organics provide even MORE of a tactical aspect to battles?

My point being, is that he can refill mid-battle......can he do that with organics? probably not.

 

[Carcharodon]

No, he can't, which means that organics provide a GREATER tactical aspect to his battles than would mechanical web-shooters and web formula.

....which was the initial reason you said you prefer mechs in the first place. I'm confused by the apparent contradiction, that's all.

 

[thebatsam]

No, he can't, which means that organics provide a GREATER tactical aspect to his battles than would mechanical web-shooters and web formula.

....which was the initial reason you said you prefer mechs in the first place. I'm confused by the apparent contradiction, that's all.

yeah prefer mechs because when he runs out he has to use his fists etc until he refills.....When he runs out of organic, that's it he's done. You make a good point, it would make the fight even more tactical, but maybe a bit too tactical in my opinion.

 

[Carcharodon]

yeah prefer mechs because when he runs out he has to use his fists etc until he refills.....When he runs out of organic, that's it he's done. You make a good point, it would make the fight even more tactical, but maybe a bit too tactical in my opinion.

That makes sense. I would also like to see that situation play out. I was a big defender of the choice to go with organics for the Raimi films, but I'm really eager to see what can potentially be done with the web-shooters.

 

[bunk]

I prefer he build them. In Raimi's movies, Peter is very smart; I want to see Peter be a full on genius/inventor.