Ken Ham vs Bill Nye (Is creation a viable model of origins?)

[Marvolo]

I'm taking it personally Marv.

Well tough titty.

 

[Breogan]

That the translators were guided by the hand of god.

As I'm sure Ham believes his interpretation is guided by god too.

 

[Marvolo]

As I'm sure Ham believes his interpretation is guided by god.

I dont doubt that that is in his mind. Ive been in many a services were a pastor said someting like "God laid this message heavy on my heart so that I would bring this sermon to you." Some believe it and some just say it as a part of their method. I think some know the absurdity of what they say, but its their faith and its all theyve ever known. It brings them peace, and thats fine. I only really have an issue when lies and misinformation is spread from behind a pulpit in the name of god. If I'm visiting a church, extremely rare these days, and a pastor starts spouting off any misinformation specifically about evolution I never return to the church. I dont mind if you dont believe in it, as long as you know the facts of it and dont purposefully spread misinformation and things that no scientist has ever said. Imo, in the grand scheme of things how things began and what you believe about it doesnt effect the concept of salvation and Jesus's love for you so no christian pastor has any reason to mention the creation story except to teach a lesson or use it as a metaphor or something of that nature. When a pastor teaches it literally or tries to get others to believe it through misinformation my respect for them goes out the window. I dont be a dick to them about it. I thank them for the sermon. And I leave. Ive considered mailing some pastors books on some subjects that they didnt know much about, but never have.

 

[Thundercrack85]

You know, I've never actually read the entire King James Bible.

I did read the Book of Mormon though.

 

[Marvolo]

You know, I've never actually read the entire King James Bible.

I did read the Book of Mormon though.

Ive never read the book of mormon. Not sure why. Ive read just about every other holy text I know of and can get my hands on. I need to find it online.

Id like to see the broadway musical as well.

 

[jmc]

For those who are genuinely looking for the 'true' interpretation of the bible, I suggest you learn the ancient languages in which the original texts were written in and study the original documents. From there you might find the truth, but it may not be the truth you want to hear.

 

[CGHulk]

edit.

 

[spideyboy_1111]

In some ways they are, and in some ways they aren't.. Creationism (though not necessarily young Earth) was the norm, until evolution came around. And even then, most schools... taught a mixture of creationism, evolution, or nothing. But in the early 20th century, there was a big row among the super religious, and the teaching of evolution in public schools was banned in several states. Evolution was still taught, in states without bans, but it varied from state to city, to county, to school.

So it remained an odd local issue until the 1960's, when finally, the federal government started taking action. The supreme court case Epperson v. Arkansas (1968) found the laws banning the teaching of evolution unconstitutional.

However, this only legalized the teaching of evolution. It didn't say the schools couldn't teach creationism. So, they continued to teach creationism, until 1987, with Edwards v. Aguillard, which effectively outlawed teaching creationism.

This is where intelligent design comes in. Since they knew creationism wasn't going to fly, the creationists redressed young Earth creationism as a "scientific theory", called intelligent design.

Kitzmiller v. Dover (a federal case) found teaching intelligent design to be no different than creationism in 2005.

So, that's where we are now.

Well Im aware if that. Evolution vs creationism has always been a hot topic. But Im specifically talking about the young earth aspect

 

[Dr.]

As for the size of the ark, perhaps God placed a spell on it so that its bigger on the inside than the outside demensions of the boat. It worked in harry potter. They had all kinds of little cars and tents that could hold a ton of stuff.

That’s the curious bit. Types like Ham pay a great deal of attention to practical details - for example, that x number of animals could indeed fit within the prescribed cubits of the Ark, etc. IOW, it’s important for him to establish that “scientific creationism” is scientific. Except... What about the geographic redistribution of fauna (polar bears to the Arctic, penguins to the Antarctic, kangaroos to Australia) after the Flood? What about genetic “bottlenecking” (how could a single pair of giraffes repopulate the species without deleterious inbreeding issues)? Or, by what means did predator animals (lions, T. Rexes) peacefully board the Ark with prey animals (antelopes, rabbits)? Well, it turns out that this stuff isn’t really a problem; god’s magic powers answer any leftover conundrums. But if creationists can play the “magic card” at any time, one wonders why they bother with the “science” of cubits, biological “kinds” or building replica Arks.

This Tweet puts it nicely:

 

[Dr.]

Oh right, they actually think this....

This is called the “Omphalos hypothesis.” (Omphalos means bellybutton - as in, did Adam have one?) It’s the notion that the Universe might have been created with the appearance of great age (rock strata, fossils, tree rings or even light from distant stars already in transit). Thing is, the “Omphalos hypotheis” suggests a deceitful god - and is rejected by most creationists for that reason. So dude in the photo is using an argument that Ham’s own Answers in Genesis disavows.

 

[Destructus86]

You know, I've never actually read the entire King James Bible.

I did read the Book of Mormon though.

I can't do the king james bible...it gives me a headache. All the "Thou's" and "thee's" ugh... I prefer the New International version and then compare it to the original hebrew and greek translation when I study. There's a significant difference in a lot of major christian hot topics between the greek and english. A lot of people don't look at the original translations though...and that's how things like zionism get made up.

 

[moviedoors]

I'm wrong and you're right. Happy now?

No, not really. The debate isn't "why do you have faith," it's "what reason do you have to reject the mountains of evidence for evolution that span literally every scientific discipline?"

 

[Hyde]

Is there anywhere that I can watch the debate?

 

[Hobgoblin]

Is there anywhere that I can watch the debate?

 

[NickNitro]

There is a funny thing someone made but I cant seem to find a youtube link for it (saw it on facebook)

They had Bill Nye's name over the man and Ken Ham's over the donkey

[YT]dcHWeAzoXd4[/YT]

 

[Hyde]

****... That's a looongg debate

 

[Breogan]

It's also on Bill Nye's site - http://www.billnye.com/
Just sayin

 

[Hobgoblin]

I dont think it matters if you just watch the video. The uploader only gets credit if you like the video or subscribe.


I dunno, whatever.

 

[Breogan]

I dont think it matters if you just watch the video. The uploader only gets credit if you like the video or subscribe.


I dunno, whatever.

You're right, and they link to the same video.

 

[Destructus86]

Ken Ham had ZERO scientific evidence to prove any of his points....how is he even considered a scientist?

 

[Feenix]

Ken Ham had ZERO scientific evidence to prove any of his points....how is he even considered a scientist?

He's not. He just calls himself one.

 

[DarkSovereignty]

Just couple a of verses containing the Gospel of Jesus-Christ

Roman 3:23-25
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


John 3:16-18
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Act 4:12
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

I hope that this was helpful to you.

Great, sentinelmind's crazy preacher uncle has joined the fray.

 

[Destructus86]

Something interesting to note...I've been studying the hebrew translation of Genesis and the more I study it the more it seems obvious to me that the book is describing a local flood, not a global disaster.

 

[NickNitro]

There was a pond....it became a bigger pond....and a homeless man saved a rabbit from drowning. 3k years later he is Noah

 

[Breogan]

There was a pond....it became a bigger pond....and a homeless man saved a rabbit from drowning. 3k years later he is Noah

And kids that's where rainbows and morals come from .....Science!