Ken Ham vs Bill Nye (Is creation a viable model of origins?)

[spideyboy_1111]

Something interesting to note...I've been studying the hebrew translation of Genesis and the more I study it the more it seems obvious to me that the book is describing a local flood, not a global disaster.

there was a good history channel story, or something, that i watched a long time ago, talked about a great flood in turkey, when a natural damn collapsed, didn't last very long, and i guess archaeologists were searching for arc remnants in that area...

like most ancient text and mythology.. there's usually some basis of fact.. be it locations (like the city of Troy actually existing), to possibly even Noah's great flood" The world was very very small place back then, people only knew what they saw.. so if there was a large flood, one could easily say "the world has flooded" But like all of these stories that get passed down.. we as the human race tend to embellish upon them. And I do believe the bible is not immune to this concept.

A little off topic too.. but There was another good special i watched once that discussed how Pompeii might of inspired the story of Atlantis, but the volcano that erupted was so powerful, that Egypt would have felt much of it... from Darkening suit covering the sky's, leaving soot in the nile turning it red, disrupting the animal life, and even causing fire-balls from the sky... apparently a volcano erupted around the same time the great plagues were supposedly taken place.. and could have very much been the cause of them.

 

[KevanG]

Easy there DS, he was just answering a question that was asked of him.

 

[BestGirl]

A little off topic too.. but There was another good special i watched once that discussed how Pompeii might of inspired the story of Atlantis, but the volcano that erupted was so powerful, that Egypt would have felt much of it... from Darkening suit covering the sky's, leaving soot in the nile turning it red, disrupting the animal life, and even causing fire-balls from the sky... apparently a volcano erupted around the same time the great plagues were supposedly taken place.. and could have very much been the cause of them.

I highly doubt that Pompeii inspired Atlantis, since Mt Vesuvius erupted in 79 CE while Plato first mentioned Atlantis in 360 BCE.

 

[roach]

I think people are too quick to jump on science or the bible/magical sides. I think the world we live in is equal parts both. Yes what we see on a regular basis is scientific but there are also things in this world that we can't explain.

 

[Hal_Jordan]

I think people are too quick to jump on science or the bible/magical sides. I think the world we live in is equal parts both. Yes what we see on a regular basis is scientific but there are also things in this world that we can't explain.

I can totally get behind that, and that is pretty much what science is. When science can't explain something they say they don't know and try to figure it out.

But when science CAN prove something, like the earth is more than 6,000 years old, we should go ahead and push that old idea aside as now debunked and invalid. Like the flat Earth and other wrong ideas.

 

[Teelie]

A little off topic too.. but There was another good special i watched once that discussed how Pompeii might of inspired the story of Atlantis, but the volcano that erupted was so powerful, that Egypt would have felt much of it... from Darkening suit covering the sky's, leaving soot in the nile turning it red, disrupting the animal life, and even causing fire-balls from the sky... apparently a volcano erupted around the same time the great plagues were supposedly taken place.. and could have very much been the cause of them.

I highly doubt that Pompeii inspired Atlantis, since Mt Vesuvius erupted in 79 CE while Plato first mentioned Atlantis in 360 BCE.

Time travel, duh.

 

[jmc]

I think people are too quick to jump on science or the bible/magical sides. I think the world we live in is equal parts both. Yes what we see on a regular basis is scientific but there are also things in this world that we can't explain.

Everything that was once unexplained was at one time considered magic. No we don't live in equal parts both. We just don't know all the answers yet.

 

[DeadPresident]

Something interesting to note...I've been studying the hebrew translation of Genesis and the more I study it the more it seems obvious to me that the book is describing a local flood, not a global disaster.

The biggest issue I have with people who start any statement with "In the Bible it says..." is that the Bible has been translated from probably 4 or more languages over more than a thousand years by most likely hundreds of people. It's a historical version of playing broken telephone, I find it odd that people would be so dogmatic about a document that has so many opportunities to have had "facts" mistranslated. I won't make a blanket statement about Christianity, but taking the Bible 100% literally seems very odd.

 

[roach]

Everything that was once unexplained was at one time considered magic. No we don't live in equal parts both. We just don't know all the answers yet.

An example of what I am talking about is ghosts. Is there a scientific explanation for ghosts. Is everyone that sees something ghostly crazy of disturbed or is there something that science can't explain. I am sure someone will say that ghost don't exist but there are too many accounts of people seeing supernatural things to just be everyone is making things up.

I just think it's human hubris to think we got everything figured out.

 

[Ant-manic]

An example of what I am talking about is ghosts. Is there a scientific explanation for ghosts. Is everyone that sees something ghostly crazy of disturbed

yes. yes they are disturbed or impressionable youngsters.

 

[The End]

Lots of accounts of big foot, too.

And,

I think the hubris comes from people like Ken Ham who say that their minds cannot be changed. People like Bill Nye are open to their minds being changed if they have the evidence.

Science is open to correction.

 

[Feenix]

An example of what I am talking about is ghosts. Is there a scientific explanation for ghosts. Is everyone that sees something ghostly crazy of disturbed or is there something that science can't explain. I am sure someone will say that ghost don't exist but there are too many accounts of people seeing supernatural things to just be everyone is making things up.

I just think it's human hubris to think we got everything figured out.

No one is saying that we have everything figured out. We're saying that there's a lot we don't know and we're trying to figure it out. That doesn't mean there's a supernatural explanation, it just means we haven't figured out the scientific explanation yet.

 

[roach]

yes. yes they are disturbed or impressionable youngsters.

so everyone that has said they have seen a ghost or had some sort of supernatural experience is a disturbed or impressionable youngster????

 

[jmc]

An example of what I am talking about is ghosts. Is there a scientific explanation for ghosts. Is everyone that sees something ghostly crazy of disturbed or is there something that science can't explain. I am sure someone will say that ghost don't exist but there are too many accounts of people seeing supernatural things to just be everyone is making things up.

I just think it's human hubris to think we got everything figured out.

I too have had what one might describe as a supernatural experience whereby someone was pulling my limbs whilst I was in bed. It was as real to me as anything I've ever experienced, it genuinely felt like someone was pulling at my body. The thing was I was a dreaming. I knew as soon as something weird was happening that I was dreaming because arms and legs don't get pulled around by invisible people, so I told myself to wake up, I did so and everything was fine and I had a good laugh about it. The thing about the human mind is it's extremely sensitive to fantasy and over exaggeration, it's worse if one is brought up believing supernatural concepts because anything the might seem out of the ordinary can be interpreted as ghosts, or demons, or some form of spirit.

 

[The End]

How do we know its real without evidence?

 

[Slushy]

The only way to know for sure what the Bible is saying is if you read it in ancient Hebrew.

I think people are too quick to jump on science or the bible/magical sides. I think the world we live in is equal parts both. Yes what we see on a regular basis is scientific but there are also things in this world that we can't explain.

I agree. Look at the human mind. We have dreams that give us joy or nightmares that scare us yet we wake up, most of us can't remember what was happening that gave us those feelings during slumber.

My favorite part is "The Third Eye". I remember my pet turtle when I was a kid. I'm seeing him right now, but in reality, I'm actual looking at my laptop screen. Sh** like that trips me out yet its so fascinating and yet scienetists we're only 3% of our brain.

 

[moviedoors]

Is there a scientific explanation for ghosts.

No, because they've never been established as existing.

I just think it's human hubris to think we got everything figured out.

Of course we don't have everything figured out. If we did, we wouldn't need science. Science is not a dogma, it's a methodology for unraveling the mysteries of the universe.

 

[KevanG]

I agree. Look at the human mind. We have dreams that give us joy or nightmares that scare us yet we wake up, most of us can't remember what was happening that gave us those feelings during slumber.

My favorite part is "The Third Eye". I remember my pet turtle when I was a kid. I'm seeing him right now, but in reality, I'm actual looking at my laptop screen. Sh** like that trips me out yet its so fascinating and yet scienetists we're only 3% of our brain.

Actually the 3% or 20% or whatever % usage of our brain message was proven wrong. We use 100% of our brain, it's just not all used at one time for one thing. It's in use in hundreds of ways all the time.

 

[roach]

No, because they've never been established as existing.



Of course we don't have everything figured out. If we did, we wouldn't need science. Science is not a dogma, it's a methodology for unraveling the mysteries of the universe.

Has the existence of ghosts been debunked?

 

[moviedoors]

yet scienetists [say] we're only [using] 3% of our brain.

That's a myth.

 

[Slushy]

Thanks.

 

[The End]

That's not how the burden of proof works, roach.

Has the existence of unicorns been debunked?

Has the existence of pixies been debunked?

Has the existence of the wizard that lives on Pluto been debunked?

You could keep going on all day, making claims that by their definition are impractical if not impossible to disprove.

Therefore, logically, and for the sake of practicality - the burden of proof must be with the person making the claim for 'x exists'. Otherwise, we'd be forced to take seriously all sorts of wild claims because we can't disprove them.

Promise me roach, that you'll watch this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KayBys8gaJY

[YT]KayBys8gaJY[/YT]

 

[moviedoors]

Has the existence of ghosts been debunked?

Plenty of individual cases have been, but it's not the responsibility of the skeptic to prove a negative. The onus for the existence of ghosts lies with the ones making the positive claim IE that they exist. We don't just assume their existence as fact. That's backwards. We start with the null hypothesis, that nothing extraordinary is happening, and then revise that when evidence tells us otherwise.

 

[moviedoors]

Thanks.

You're welcome.

 

[Teelie]

I know a few people who it'd be generous to say use 3% of their brain.

Ghosts are simple and yet complicated to explain. They aren't all from disturbed or impressionable minds. There are a multitude of ways ghosts are seen. Most of the time they manifest in the form of a hallucination. Soundwaves and vibrations can actually make you "see" or "feel" the presence of a ghost.

Then of course you have the tricks of the eye. Optical illusions where the brain translates an object or light or some combination of the two into a ghostly apparition.

Do any of these mean there is no such thing as ghosts or souls? Nope, it does mean that most sightings have a logical, scientific explanation that percludes the ethereal.

There are some things that haven't been explained or can't be explained yet. That's what faith, religion and belief are for. You can believe in something that science can't or can only partially explain.

Science is not a religion (pretty sure someone covered that). It's a way of explaining and understanding the world.

I find it is a good thing to question everything. Religious beliefs included. If you can't question something and come out the same, how can you say your faith is really unshakable? And I do mean to seriously, honestly question that belief. Not just think it over for a minute and decide you're settled on whatever it is you believe.

A lot of things I've believed over the years I've found to either be reaffirmed or had the floor taken completely out from under me. Either way, I think I'm better for it. It doesn't mean you have to abandon your beliefs or to ignore science as heresy. There is no "one or the other" although there are those who feel that way, they're wrong.

Blind faith and cold logic aren't the only two choices.