Kofi Annan claims destuction of U.N. Outpost by Israeli airstrike to be "delibrate"

[maxwell's demon]

SumofGod: "my prediction! my prediction! woohoo I'm prescient!...now you let me tell you about the lizard people...."

 

[JLBats]

SumofGod: "my prediction! my preditcion!"

maxwell's demon: Pie is so friggin' delicious. I just want to go in the corner and have some delicious pie, right friggin' now.

 

[maxwell's demon]

its friggin good.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

SumofGod: "my prediction! my prediction! woohoo I'm prescient!...now you let me tell you about the lizard people...."

maxwell's demon: "I love Charlie Brown and I very rarely post! Woo-hoo!"

 

[jaguarr]

While I doubt that the strike on the U.N. outpost was deliberate, it does illustrate the unbridled and careless tactics the Israeli's are starting to resort to. They've aggravated things in that entire region with this latest round of bombings and attacks over these two kidnapped soldiers. Even Hezbollah is on record as saying that they never expected Israel to go this far with it, since these kinds of kidnappings and such have been going on over there for years without this much carnage (and civilian casualty). No, Hezbollah is not in the right by any means and are just as much responsible for escalating the situation, but I think Israel often gets a "free pass" to do whatever the hell they want over there from much of the rest of the world and I don't necessarily agree with that. These things need to be approached from a more unified perspective involving the free nations and with some diplomacy if it's ever going to be smoothed out so these countries will at least stop bombing the hell out of each other and killing so many civilians.

jag

 

[maxwell's demon]

maxwell's demon: "I love Charlie Brown and I very rarely post! Woo-hoo!"

why that warrants a roll-eyes smiley i'll never know.

 

[TheSumOfGod]

UK airport used to fly bombs to Israel.

 

[War Lord]

For anyone wondering where Jonty gets all of his opinions from... just check out this site.

My opinions are my own.

I just thought it was a pretty picture.

 

[War Lord]

A war between two street gangs erupt. The cops arrive and some get caught in the crossfire. I bet War Lord will say that the cops shouldn't have been there in the first place.

Cops are their to enforce the law.

Peacekeepers enforce nothing that doesn't exist in the first place.

 

[War Lord]

Didn't Israel ask them to be there?

I don't believe so.

Why would Israel request anything that would ultimately hamper its own operations?

 

[War Lord]

How long does Kofi get to be UN Chief anyway? Hasn't it been long enough already?

What is it, will no one else take the job or what?

Is he elected for a term or does he just hang around until he feels like leaving?

They don't dare let him leave, he's busy holding the closet door.

The moment Kofi is gone, all skeletons are out of the closet.

 

[War Lord]

Someone: "Israel just nuked Teheran without provocation! And they also used VX poison gas to wipe out all of the Palestinians!"

Jonty/War Lord: "Those brown people just can't stay out of trouble, can they? Oh well... "

Tehran should be concerned about its own affairs instead of using terrorist organizations to do its dirty work.

 

[maxwell's demon]

you really need to get laid

 

[logansoldcigar]

While I doubt that the strike on the U.N. outpost was deliberate, it does illustrate the unbridled and careless tactics the Israeli's are starting to resort to. They've aggravated things in that entire region with this latest round of bombings and attacks over these two kidnapped soldiers. Even Hezbollah is on record as saying that they never expected Israel to go this far with it, since these kinds of kidnappings and such have been going on over there for years without this much carnage (and civilian casualty). No, Hezbollah is not in the right by any means and are just as much responsible for escalating the situation, but I think Israel often gets a "free pass" to do whatever the hell they want over there from much of the rest of the world and I don't necessarily agree with that. These things need to be approached from a more unified perspective involving the free nations and with some diplomacy if it's ever going to be smoothed out so these countries will at least stop bombing the hell out of each other and killing so many civilians.

jag

Thins is, it happens an awful lot for it to be an accident. It may not be policy, but Ill lay good mopney after bad that its well known that soldiers will get in the poopoo for these things if someone kicks up.

 

[logansoldcigar]

They don't dare let him leave, he's busy holding the closet door.

The moment Kofi is gone, all skeletons are out of the closet.

know a lot about things being in the closet, don't ya?

 

[War Lord]

know a lot about things being in the closet, don't ya?

My life is an open book.

 

[jaguarr]

Thins is, it happens an awful lot for it to be an accident. It may not be policy, but Ill lay good mopney after bad that its well known that soldiers will get in the poopoo for these things if someone kicks up.

For me, this simply raises the competence vs. malevolent intent question. Are they TRYING to hit neutral U.N. targets or are they just idiots?

jag

 

[War Lord]

For me, this simply raises the competence vs. malevolent intent question. Are they TRYING to hit neutral U.N. targets or are they just idiots?

jag

Mistakes always happen in war.

It can't be helped.

 

[jaguarr]

Mistakes always happen in war.

It can't be helped.

So you're in the idiot camp, then.

jag

 

[logansoldcigar]

try Tom Hurndell. he was a piece activist, and wrote this in the British news paper, the Idependant (which is Independant..its not a politically partisan paper)

"April 6 2003. I have been shot at, gassed, chased by soldiers, had sound grenades thrown within metres of me, been hit by falling debris and been in the way of a 10-tonne D-9 that didn't stop. As we approached, I kept expecting a part of my body to be hit by an 'invisible' force and shot of pain. It took a huge amount of will to continue. I wondered what it would be like to be shot, and strangely I wasn't too scared. It is strange to know that each night people are shot and killed for breaking military curfew, and in the darkness on the north west side there is an Israeli settlement and a few hundred metres away with military snipers in between and any one of the four of us could be being watched through a sniper's sights at this moment. The certainty is that they are watching, and it is in the decision of any one Israeli soldier or settler that my life depends. I know that I'd probably never know what hit me, but it's part of the job to be as visible as possible."

5 days later he was shot by an Israeli soldier
(one whom was prosecuted for manslaughter, and a British coroners court came to the conclusion it was a deliberate and unlawful killing, although they stopped short of using the word "murder"

He was wearing a bright Orange hivisibility jacket, and was getting some children the Israeli army were using as target practice. you know the routine. Kids throw rocks, israeli army sends in tanks

this is the full article as appeared in the independant, although, i stress, I havent taken it from their site:

by Terri Judd

"April 6 2003. I have been shot at, gassed, chased by soldiers, had sound grenades thrown within metres of me, been hit by falling debris and been in the way of a 10-tonne D-9 that didn't stop. As we approached, I kept expecting a part of my body to be hit by an 'invisible' force and shot of pain. It took a huge amount of will to continue. I wondered what it would be like to be shot, and strangely I wasn't too scared. It is strange to know that each night people are shot and killed for breaking military curfew, and in the darkness on the north west side there is an Israeli settlement and a few hundred metres away with military snipers in between and any one of the four of us could be being watched through a sniper's sights at this moment. The certainty is that they are watching, and it is in the decision of any one Israeli soldier or settler that my life depends. I know that I'd probably never know what hit me, but it's part of the job to be as visible as possible." Five days after he wrote these words, Tom Hurndall was shot by Israeli forces and later died.

The Attorney General was called upon to consider the prosecution of five senior Israeli officers after an inquest jury found that a British student had been murdered by one of their soldiers.

In a rare move, the coroner, Andrew Reid, concluded the inquest into Tom Hurndall's death by revealing that he would write to Lord Goldsmith to explore further legal action relating to the 22-year-old's death.


British peace activist Thomas Hurndall sits on the floor of a home in Rafah, minutes before he left to participate in a protest at which he suffered a gunshot wound to the head, in Rafah, southern Gaza Strip, Friday, April 11, 2003. Hurndall, age 22, from Manchester, England, had been standing between Israeli troops and Palestinian children when Israeli soldiers opened fire, according to a fellow activist from the International Solidarity Movement who witnessed the scene. He was declared brain dead after arrival at a Gaza hospital. (AP Photo/Khalil Hamra)

Mr Hurndall * a photojournalism student who travelled to Gaza along with a group of peace activists * was trying to save children from a volley of bullets when he was hit in the head in April 2003. He never recovered consciousness and died nine months later in a hospital in London.

Three weeks after the shooting, the British cameraman James Miller, 34, was shot dead by another soldier from the same unit just a mile away.

While an Israeli soldier was eventually convicted in Israel of manslaughter in Mr Hurndall's case after a protracted fight by his family, the jury at St Pancras Coroner's Court took it a step further and decided unanimously that he had been killed unlawfully and intentionally.

Dr Reid added that he had written to Lord Goldsmith: "On the basis that, although an individual has been prosecuted, there are wider issues.'' The Government, he said, had an obligation to protect British citizens from being killed in similar circumstances.

The legal option available to Mr Hurndall's family include the Attorney General authorising an extradition request under the Geneva Convention to try the five men in a British court for alleged war crimes. He could also pursue a war crimes prosecution in the International Criminal Court.

In an eerie premonition of the fate that awaited him, Mr Hurndall wrote in his diary upon arrival in Rafah days earlier of the horror that greeted him, including the regular shootings, gassings and use of sound grenades by troops.

"The certainty is that they are watching and it is on the decision of any one Israeli soldier or settler that my life depends. I know that I'd probably never know what hit me, but it's part of the job to be as visible as possible," he wrote. His last words to a young Palestinian man were that he and his fellow activists from the International Solidarity Movement, "wanted to do something to make a difference''.

On 11 April 2003, just hours after two Palestinian teenagers were shot and killed for no apparent reason, the activists were trying to set up a tent to block the Israeli tanks when shots rang out from a watchtower.

A group of children playing nearby scattered, but three froze in fear. Mr Hurndall rescued a five-year-old boy before running back for two little girls. As he bent down to pick one up, he was hit in the head. He died days before his 21st birthday.

The inquest yesterday saw graphic footage of the young man wearing a high visibility orange top being carried away, bleeding heavily, by panicked colleagues. The jury heard that, as Mr Hurndall's family from north London dealt with constant obstruction and deception by the Israeli authorities, they were "astonished and shocked'' not to receive any high-profile support from either Tony Blair or the Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw. It fell to his father, Anthony Hurndall, to piece together the events of that day which contradicted the original assertion that the Israel Defence Force had fired at a Palestinian gunman in camouflage. At one point, in an armoured convoy with British embassy officials, the family were shot at themselves, said his mother, Jocelyn.

After several months, Sergeant Taysir Hayb conceded that he had fired at Mr Hurndall, but insisted he had aimed 10cm away. He admitted that he had only sought permission to fire after hitting Mr Hurndall and was later convicted of manslaughter and obstruction of justice and sentenced to eight years. But he told the court he was acting under orders. Mr Hurndall Snr said: " Our view is this soldier was doing no more than what was expected of him. It has become very clear to me that shooting civilians was a regular army activity in that area."

The Israeli authorities refused to co-operate with the inquest and Mr Hurndall said those higher up the command * including Generals Jiora Eiland and Doron Almog, as well as a colonel, deputy brigadier- general and captain * should be held accountable.

Michael Mansfield QC, on behalf of the family, said yesterday the British Government should pressure the Israelis to prosecute the senior officers, seek extradition or a European arrest warrant. It was only through the family's "harrowing struggle", he said, that the rare prosecution of the junior soldier had been achieved.

He continued: "It is about time a few demands were made of the Israeli government. It is time the Government complies with its own obligations and at least states to this family and the Miller family that they are considering instigating proceedings under the act [Geneva Convention] which is part of our domestic legislation. This is exactly the sort of case they should be using it for and they have done nothing about it."

Another British inquest ruled last week that cameraman James Miller, 34, had been murdered by an Israeli soldier. He was gunned down while making a documentary about the impact of the conflict on Palestinian children in the Rafah refugee camp in May 2003. Last December, an inquest found that Briton Ian Hook, who was leading a UN reconstruction programme in the Jenin refugee camp, was a victim of a "deliberate killing"in November 2002.

Tom Hurndall arrived in Rafah after hearing of the death of Rachel Corrie, an American peacekeeper. She died on 17 March 2003 from injuries caused by an Israeli army bulldozer while she was trying to stop the Rafah refugee camp being demolished. Mr Hurndall Snr: "We have achieved a great deal more than anyone expected and I don't see why we should not achieve more."

as i said earlier, whilst it may not be official policy, IMO it is deliberate, and it isnt discouraged or frowned upon. IMO, its a calculated gamble....its rare the parents and family of a western aid worker killed by the Israeli army show the kind of fortitute that Hurndells did, to push it as far as it goes.

 

[logansoldcigar]

My life is an open book.

the dummies guide to being a know nothing know it all?

 

[War Lord]

So you're in the idiot camp, then.

jag

There's never been a war where mistakes, even large ones happened.

On a scale of 1 to 10, bombing the UN outpost counts as a 1.

 

[logansoldcigar]

Not for the families of the UN observers it wasnt.

 

[War Lord]

Not for the families of the UN observers it wasnt.

No, but the observers shouldn't have been there in the first place.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

No, but the observers shouldn't have been there in the first place.

WTF? they're observers, where should they have been? Detroit?