Kramer's A Racist!!!

[jono11]

He didn't give a reason at all. He just talked about how innapropriate it was. And he tried to make Dave feel bad for telling jokes?

As I recall, he wasn't guilt-tripping anybody. He was acknowledging that he ****ed up pretty bad, and he's not exactly popular right now. Except with Nazi-trash. Jerry was the one telling the audience to shut up, and rightfully so.

I definitely believe that he was nursing some hate in his heart, and some Jewish people were nursing some hate as well because Mel did get death threats and all the like because of that movie.

Well, he'd kill all of us he could. Makes sense that a few of us would feel the same way about him.

yes there is....rhymes with a two wheeled vehicle.

He means Kunsprung-Cart. It's a vicious slur for Jewish people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Un-sprung_cart

ooooh, right. I'm probably the only 20 year old that still uses jewed and cheated as synonyms. I heard it on a tolerance video we watched in junior high and it stuck.

I don't even have anything to say to this. What, do you call things you don't like "gay"? Way to be twelve.

 

[jono11]

I don't know how that guy can try to convince us he's not racist. Seriously.

That's rich, coming from you.

An excerpt from the MSN article:

Anyone else find this equally stupefying?

No. We've been over this already. Same reason Jewish jokes aren't acceptable from non-Jews.

 

[Addendum]

Institutional racism (or structural racism or systemic racism) is a form of racism that occurs in institutions such as public bodies and corporations, including universities. The term was coined by black nationalist, pan-Africanist and honorary prime minister of the Black Panther Party Stokely Carmichael. In the late 1960s, he defined the term as "the collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture or ethnic origin".

Institutional racism is distinguished from the bigotry or racial bias of individuals by the existence of systematic policies and practices that have the effect of disadvantaging certain racial or ethnic groups. Race-based discrimination in housing (see restrictive covenants) and bank lending (see redlining), for example, are forms of institutional racism. Other examples include the systematic profiling of members of certain races by security and law enforcement workers, use of stereotyped caricatures of certain racial groups by institutions (like "Indian" mascots in sports), the under- and mis-representation of members of certain racial groups in the media, and barriers to employment or professional advancement based on race.

Since I've never done any of those things, I owe no one anything. I have nothing to apologize for.

Also, race means nothing to me. I had no choice about how much melanin I have in my skin. Therefore, for me it's unimportant.

 

[Spider-Bite]

That's rich, coming from you.

.

your the racist man. I said I support equal rights for both races under the law, and you said I should go to work and let blacks get the paycheck for my work.

I wont be anybody's slave, and i don't expect anybody else to be mine. I have gone through hell with my own racst family for trying to have a relationship with a black chick. Had my sister beat up for being gay. Watched racist blacks and mexicans fight each other in the street while the mexicans sicked a pitbull on a black kid and ripped his legs to shreds. Was a victim of racism myslef being the only white kid on the block when I was a kid.

And your telling me I benefit from prejudice?

That's rich, coming from you.

you can go to hell because tha'ts where racists belong.

 

[thedeadite]

i think alot of people don't seem to understand..that with many social (and political) issues such as this...they are cyclical..and the further you go to one side..the closer you get to the other.

 

[Spider-Bite]

i think alot of people don't seem to understand..that with many social (and political) issues such as this...they are cyclical..and the further you go to one side..the closer you get to the other.

that's how I feel. I'm an individual and i should be treated and judged as such. I'm not responsible for crimes committed by other white people, and neither is a black person or any person. Jonty is judging me by the actions of other white people and that is racist.

I hate racist people. It's that very mindset that will contribute to the extinction of the human race. Blaming a whole race for the actions of some.

 

[jono11]

Since I've never done any of those things, I owe no one anything. I have nothing to apologize for.

You've never been a member of society? Really? Wow. That's pretty hardcore anarchism right there. Good jaerorb.

No but seriously, institutional racism doesn't have to be about who actually commits the action. It's also about who benefits. I notice you say nothing about white privilege, which is also part of the argument.

Also, race means nothing to me. I had no choice about how much melanin I have in my skin. Therefore, for me it's unimportant.

That's very nice, and irrelevant. Race is a social construction, but most people don't believe that yet. People still see race as biological.

And also, don't go being high-and-mighty. We're all racists. It's how the mind works. It's conditioned in us. Everybody is a little bit racist--sounds like a joke, but it's true.

 

[Spade]

No. We've been over this already. Same reason Jewish jokes aren't acceptable from non-Jews.

So derrogatory statements are just dandy so long as they come from the right source? I don't see the sense in that, even if it is used in a terms of endearment. That would be if I were to call a woman the "b" phrase- even if I mean it in an endearing sense, wouldn't I be perpetuating the belief that women take enjoyment or look the other way when called that phrase? Would not the complete stamping out of the use of any term that incites such anger be an infinitely more effective method of ensuring it's non-existence?

 

[jono11]

your the racist man. I said I support equal rights for both races under the law, and you said I should go to work and let blacks get the paycheck for my work.

You keep telling yourself that. Gross oversimplification protects you from actually having to respond.

I wont be anybody's slave, and i don't expect anybody else to be mine.

Well aren't you just Mr. Progressive.

I have gone through hell with my own racst family for trying to have a relationship with a black chick.

You'll love somebody but you won't give them a decent chance at gaining racial equality? Weird way of showing affection.

Had my sister beat up for being gay.

Condolences.

Watched racist blacks and mexicans fight each other in the street while the mexicans sicked a pitbull on a black kid and ripped his legs to shreds.

That's horrible. Why does that make you oppose racial equality?

Was a victim of racism myslef being the only white kid on the block when I was a kid.

That's rough. I was the only Jewish kid in Moundridge, Kansas. Funny thing, it made me SUPPORT racial equality, instead of opposing it like you. Weird.

And your telling me I benefit from prejudice?

I'm sorry that you disagree with sociological science.

you can go to hell because tha'ts where racists belong.

Well, I don't believe in it, but if racists belong in Hell, and Hell exists, then every single person who has ever lived is going to Hell. Because everyone is racist.

And every white person in the US benefits from the legacy of slavery.

 

[Addendum]

You've never been a member of society? Really? Wow. That's pretty hardcore anarchism right there. Good jaerorb.

No but seriously, institutional racism doesn't have to be about who actually commits the action. It's also about who benefits. I notice you say nothing about white privilege, which is also part of the argument.

That's very nice, and irrelevant. Race is a social construction, but most people don't believe that yet. People still see race as biological.

And also, don't go being high-and-mighty. We're all racists. It's how the mind works. It's conditioned in us. Everybody is a little bit racist--sounds like a joke, but it's true.

I don't give a damn. I'm not racist. I'm misanthropic. I loathe everyone equally.

 

[jono11]

that's how I feel. I'm an individual and i should be treated and judged as such. I'm not responsible for crimes committed by other white people, and neither is a black person or any person. Jonty is judging me by the actions of other white people and that is racist.

I can't speak for this "Jonty" cat, but I can tell you that the only judgments I've made about you are that you are an unenlightened, self-centered, false leftist. That judgment is based solely upon your words in this thread, and the other race thread.

Reparations is not a punishment, it's not a judgment. This morning I had to pay my buddy back five dollars. He bought me a pack of cigs last night because I forgot my cash. I owed him five bucks, so I gave it to him. It wasn't a punishment. I benefited from his sacrifice.

I hate racist people.

So you hate every person who has ever existed? Ever? Yeesh. Bitter.

It's that very mindset that will contribute to the extinction of the human race. Blaming a whole race for the actions of some.

Can you actually read, or are you just guessing at what I'm saying? I'll type it out in really big letters, so pay attention.

No one blames you or any other living white person for slavery. However, you benefit from slavery's legacy. This is called white privilege, a result of institutional racism. This means you have a debt to pay.

 

[jono11]

So derrogatory statements are just dandy so long as they come from the right source?

That's not it at all. It's just that statements are only derogatory if they come from the wrong source.

That would be if I were to call a woman the "b" phrase- even if I mean it in an endearing sense, wouldn't I be perpetuating the belief that women take enjoyment or look the other way when called that phrase?

Actually, there's a strong movement among young feminists to reclaim the word beeyatch. There's even a prominent feminist pop culture magazine (or was, I've lost track of a lot of things since I started college) called Beeyatch. Well, it's actually called *****, but that's just going to show up as a bunch of asterisks.

Would not the complete stamping out of the use of any term that incites such anger be an infinitely more effective method of ensuring it's non-existence?

Such a case could be made. That's why Jews don't go around calling each other Kunsprung-carts. But it's up to the victim group to decide how to deal with such epithets.

 

[thedeadite]

i'd be truly interested in the beliefs of actual slaves on the idea of reparations. Though this would be an impossibility, and i'm not going to (and never would) speculate on it. Just would be interesting.

 

[jono11]

I don't give a damn. I'm not racist. I'm misanthropic. I loathe everyone equally.

Ladies and gentlemen, right here, step right up! Come one, come all, and see the Amazing ADDENDUM! No one else like him in the world! Only one ever! Only one for the rest of time! That's right, ladies and gentlemen, Addendum is the only non-racist in the world! You and I, being human beings with minds that are forced to stereotype because of the sheer number of humans we encounter, often resort to biases along "racial" lines, because the different "races" have been socialized into different cultures. We group people based on relative similarity, and this often means grouping them by culture, or "race." Of course, no person or group is perfect, so we often have both positive and negative views about these stereotypical groups. And it's the latter views, negative ideas about a racially defined group of people, which make up what is commonly referred to as RACISM! That, ladies and gentlemen, is why each and every one of us normal people is racist!

But not the amazing ADDENDUM! No, sir, it's a real live Nonracist! I don't know how he does it! You know, folks say he claims to have never been a member of society! I'll be that's why he doesn't have to stereotype! It all falls into place...

Now, ladies and gentlemen, step right this way for our next attraction, the Unenlightened Liberal who thinks his own hardship negates his responsibility to help those less fortunate than him! That's right, folks, it's the amazing SPIDER-BITE...

 

[Spider-Bite]

You'll love somebody but you won't give them a decent chance at gaining racial equality? Weird way of showing affection.

she had more money than I did. look man. it doesn't matter if your black or white. you apply for a job, work and get a paycheck. college? it's hard. but blacks have the same opportunities and chances i have. In fact because of affirmative action we can both go in there with the same qualifications and I could lose the job to him or her. I still support AA because in the long run it will mix up the neighborhoods and help blacks and whites get to know each other better and it will help eminate racism. I know that because of corruption of culture a black kid is more likely to not graduate and drop out of school. But it's not because of somebody denying them the chance, it's because they will choose not to. I know it's because of everything that's happened during the last few hundred years, but it doesn't change the fact it's still their choice. Growing up in the ghetto has an effect on a child. I saw it myself. I know the seperations of today are because of the seperations of the past, but they still have the same choice and opportunites i have.

you won't give them a decent chance at gaining racial equality?

I'm not stopping anybody from anything. I dont' care if your black or white, if i was helping you I'd help you the same.

That's horrible. Why does that make you oppose racial equality?

I don't oppose racial equality. I oppose taking money from one race and giving it to another. there are poor whites and poor blacks. there shouldn't be any, but I'm equally saddened by a poor black kid as a poor white kid. 99% of the money peopel have in this country they got from working for it. Most people do not inherit wealth.

That's rough. I was the only Jewish kid in Moundridge, Kansas. Funny thing, it made me SUPPORT racial equality, instead of opposing it like you. Weird.

more false accusations.

I'm sorry that you disagree with sociological science.

We don't. But I believe that different groups have been enslaving, oppressing, killing, raping, and going to war with each other since before we were even homo sapiens. White people in america did something horrible to blacks, and there is a 99% chance those blacks had ancestors who did something simmillair, because the whole human race was like that. I'm saying "we want justice for our ancestors" is not going to accomplish anything.

Well, I don't believe in it, but if racists belong in Hell, and Hell exists, then every single person who has ever lived is going to Hell. Because everyone is racist.

I don't believe in Hell either, and no not everybody is racist. I know I'm not. I have like 10 different races in me. like 80% of my friends were black in my life, my sister is mexican, and I've never met an asian I didn't like, although I haven't met that many. I still liked every single one of them.

Who exactly am I racist against?

And every white person in the US benefits from the legacy of slavery.

[/QUOTE]

that's a racist lie. my life has not been effected in even one single postive way because of it. NOt even one single way. even if I had been alive back then, I'd have been fighting in the civil war to free them. that's not a benefit, that's suffering.

 

[thedeadite]

you know man...maybe if you weren't such an ass in your posts..and didn't resort to childish outbursts (like that above) people would take you more seriously. just a thought.

ps... (that was in regards to jono's post)

 

[Spade]

This means you have a debt to pay.

I find it discerning you would make such a sordid statement of any race. So if a person has worked against racism wherever they see it their entire lives they should still be held sway by reparations simply because of pigmentation, a form of thinking you yourself swore up and down a few of your many posts ago as an 'improper way of thinking when it comes to race'?

That's almost as narrow-minded as the concept of racism in the first place.

 

[Addendum]

I group people into 2 groups- idiots and non-idiots.

Neither is based on skin color. The only qualification is when one opens their mouth and removes all doubt.

 

[The Man Of 16]

Jesus CHRIST! ALL OF YOU! SHUTUP!

Why is there this need to justify whether or not youre racist? Just dont be an ass, and no one will be the wiser. And if you dont hate anyone, you dont have to tell anyone how NOT-RACIST you are, just dont be an ass about it.

The topic is about how Michael Richards said racist comments in ANGER, when he was being HECKLED! Just because he said it doesnt make him forever a racist, in fact it doesnt make him a racist at all. He had justifiable cause to call him anything he wanted, but he chose to call him that, and if folks like YOU (as in people reading this) didnt care so much, no one would have cared. In my opinion, Michael Richards should be apologizing to the man that was heckling him, and then the heckler should apologize to the crowd.

Ive called people g ay or queer before, it doesnt mean im homophobic. Ive called people every racial slur possible, in a joking manner, and even when Ive been in a few fights with people that werent of the same ancestral background, it doesnt mean im racist. Ive also called a lot of women bad drivers, it doesnt mean im sexist either.

You people that put so much emphasis on proper language, and take everything so PERSONALLY need to grow up and stop being so emotional about things.

 

[jono11]

i'd be truly interested in the beliefs of actual slaves on the idea of reparations. Though this would be an impossibility, and i'm not going to (and never would) speculate on it. Just would be interesting.

Much of the black community, immediately after Reconstruction failed, was divided into two camps: Booker T. Washington's ideas that blacks had to be able to stand on their own two feet, and W.E.B. DuBois's assertion that if you kick a guy down, you need to help him up.

Washington was often called an accomodator and a panderer to white-power interests, trading his race's future away for personal political power, of which he had a great deal. He may have been the single most important black politician in American history, in terms of influence over policymakers, both black and white, federal and state, governmental and independent.

History has not been kind to Washington's ideas. Even as most people today scoff at reparations, historians are almost unanimous in their condemnation of Washington for doing the same thing. DuBois's plea for the white community to "help up" the black community, while hailed almost universally by historians as revolutionary, is rejected by Americans today as being reverse-racism.

Yet the concept is sound, even a few generations later. The white community kicked the black community down, and for years, climbed to great heights by using the fallen black community as a stepping-stone. Now it's past time to help the black community to its feet, and that means we won't be able to climb as high. But it's still our responsibility. We didn't make the mess, but we certainly enjoyed it.

 

[Morg]

jono11 lay off with the attacks

 

[Addendum]

boo-hoo

 

[jono11]

I don't oppose racial equality. I oppose taking money from one race and giving it to another. there are poor whites and poor blacks.

You once said you supported socialism. So you would support the EXACT SAME THING if it was done along the lines of class instead of race? Because, you know, functionally, it would just be a broader reparations.

there shouldn't be any, but I'm equally saddened by a poor black kid as a poor white kid. 99% of the money peopel have in this country they got from working for it. Most people do not inherit wealth.

But they inherit socioeconomic status, and that's what's really key here.

We don't.

When you say that white people do not benefit from the legacy of slavery...yeah, you actually do. That's pretty much the universal opinion of sociologists.

I'm saying "we want justice for our ancestors" is not going to accomplish anything.

What about "we want justice for us, right now"? Does that sound better to you? Because that's what reparations is.

I don't believe in Hell either, and no not everybody is racist. I know I'm not. I have like 10 different races in me. like 80% of my friends were black in my life, my sister is mexican, and I've never met an asian I didn't like, although I haven't met that many. I still liked every single one of them.

Who exactly am I racist against?

You and I, being human beings with minds that are forced to stereotype because of the sheer number of humans we encounter, often resort to biases along "racial" lines, because the different "races" have been socialized into different cultures. We group people based on relative similarity, and this often means grouping them by culture, or "race." Of course, no person or group is perfect, so we often have both positive and negative views about these stereotypical groups. And it's the latter views, negative ideas about a racially defined group of people, which make up what is commonly referred to as RACISM! That, ladies and gentlemen, is why each and every one of us normal people is racist!

that's a racist lie. my life has not been effected in even one single postive way because of it. NOt even one single way. even if I had been alive back then, I'd have been fighting in the civil war to free them. that's not a benefit, that's suffering.

I'm not going to reiterate my proof. It's been posted in both threads. If you can't read, you can't read.

 

[tzarinna]

I'm very offended.
Coming back stating that in the day we would be hung in a tree. WTF!
****ing low blow for a minor heckle,what an ass.

 

[chaseter]

I'm very offended.
Coming back stating that in the day we would be hung in a tree. WTF!
****ing low blow for a minor heckle,what an ass.

Yea he over reacted big time. The hecklers were wrong for what they did but the bigger person should have just let it slide. Who knows why he said it...maybe he was having a sh**ty day and that was what topped the cake. He apologized and it is over...worse things happen every day.