Endgame Let’s talk the T word (SPOILER DISCUSSION)

[Donner]

Russos CONFIRMED Steve creates a new reality when he goes back in the past. Chinese link here.

贵圈｜《复联4》里最想知道的17个问题，我们问了导演罗素兄弟

Um, are we supposed to be able to read that?

 

[First Avenger]

Um, are we supposed to be able to read that?

Doesn't it let you translate it? Anyway here's it:

Q: Did Captain America's action at the end affect the timeline? Does that mean there was a time where two CA existed in a same universe?

A: To me, CA's action in the end wasn't the fact he wanted to change anything, it's more like me has made a choice. He chose to go back to past and lived with the one he loved for the rest of his life. The time travel in this movie created an alternate reality. He lived a completely different life in that world. We don't know how exactly his life turned out, but I'd like to believe he still helped many others when they were needed in that world. Yes, there were two CA in that reality, it's just like what Hulk said, what happened in the past has already happened. If you go back to past, you simply created a new reality. The characters in this movie created new timeline when they went back to the past, but it had no effect to the prime universe. What happened in the past 22 movies was still canon.

Q: EG's plot, is it a parallel universe or a closed time loop?

A: Nope, not a time loop. Both Ancinet One and Hulk were right. You can't change the future by simply going back to past. But it's possible to create a different alternate future. It's not butterfly effect. Every decision you made in the past could potentially create a new timeline. For example, the old Cap at the end movie, he lived his married life in a different universe from the main one. He had to make another jump back to the main universe at the end to give the shield to Sam.

 

[Darkprime]

Its better to just try not to think about it or take time travel too seriously.

 

[Kris]

Doesn't it let you translate it? Anyway here's it:

Q: Did Captain America's action at the end affect the timeline? Does that mean there was a time where two CA existed in a same universe?

A: To me, CA's action in the end wasn't the fact he wanted to change anything, it's more like me has made a choice. He chose to go back to past and lived with the one he loved for the rest of his life. The time travel in this movie created an alternate reality. He lived a completely different life in that world. We don't know how exactly his life turned out, but I'd like to believe he still helped many others when they were needed in that world. Yes, there were two CA in that reality, it's just like what Hulk said, what happened in the past has already happened. If you go back to past, you simply created a new reality. The characters in this movie created new timeline when they went back to the past, but it had no effect to the prime universe. What happened in the past 22 movies was still canon.

Q: EG's plot, is it a parallel universe or a closed time loop?

A: Nope, not a time loop. Both Ancinet One and Hulk were right. You can't change the future by simply going back to past. But it's possible to create a different alternate future. It's not butterfly effect. Every decision you made in the past could potentially create a new timeline. For example, the old Cap at the end movie, he lived his married life in a different universe from the main one. He had to make another jump back to the main universe at the end to give the shield to Sam.

I agree with most of your points, but Cap did not have to jump to get back to give Sam the shield. He was already there living alongside all of the events. In the same reality/timeline. All the events happen, he goes back, puts stones back and then lives his life from that point. The other Cap still exists gets frozen does all the same stuff, then as that cap is planning to go back in time at the end of endgame, old cap simply walks there and sits on the bench. He did not have to travel through time as an old man to get back.

 

[First Avenger]

I agree with most of your points, but Cap did not have to jump to get back to give Sam the shield. He was already there living alongside all of the events. In the same reality/timeline. All the events happen, he goes back, puts stones back and then lives his life from that point. The other Cap still exists gets frozen does all the same stuff, then as that cap is planning to go back in time at the end of endgame, old cap simply walks there and sits on the bench. He did not have to travel through time as an old man to get back.

It's not my theory, well it was, but this is straight from the Russos' words. Steve was no longer in the original timeline, he had to come back.

 

[CyclopsSummers]

A: Nope, not a time loop. Both Ancinet One and Hulk were right. You can't change the future by simply going back to past. But it's possible to create a different alternate future. It's not butterfly effect. Every decision you made in the past could potentially create a new timeline. For example, the old Cap at the end movie, he lived his married life in a different universe from the main one. He had to make another jump back to the main universe at the end to give the shield to Sam.

So, create another timeline or erase previous timeline (like wolverine and cable in fox movies)

On a related matter, what if the X-Men are from an alternate timeline where mutants exist?

And isn't the whole concept of "What If" based on alternate timelines?

no

If x-gene already exists in a timeline since millenium, it would exist in others timelines

mutants can exist in main MCU timeline, all along the movies we discovers things existing since immemorial era

 

[Kris]

It's not my theory, well it was, but this is straight from the Russos' words. Steve was no longer in the original timeline, he had to come back.

Ah really, that’s annoying because to me that really doesn’t work at all! Maybe Russos’ Got confused about their own idea.

To me there is the main timeline/reality, it plays through all the films normally, gets to end game, they go back, do there thing, cap returns stones. Then the reality plays out the same as the first time we watched the films. Loki does not get tesseract, they win New York get to Endgame again go back repeat. Cap lives alongside this first run through again. Loki does get the tesseract and creates a new reality. But Cap goes to an early point of the normal reality and lives alongside it. Makes much more sense. It leaves too much unanswered as to how cap got back etc. Cap does make a change to the reality in living a life with Peggy but it’s the same reality. My view anyway. Makes more sense I think!

 

[Kris]

Ah really, that’s annoying because to me that really doesn’t work at all! Maybe Russos’ Got confused about their own idea.

To me there is the main timeline/reality, it plays through all the films normally, gets to end game, they go back, do there thing, cap returns stones. Then the reality plays out the same as the first time we watched the films. Loki does not get tesseract, they win New York get to Endgame again go back repeat. Cap lives alongside this first run through again. Loki does get the tesseract and creates a new reality. But Cap goes to an early point of the normal reality and lives alongside it. Makes much more sense. It leaves too much unanswered as to how cap got back etc. Cap does make a change to the reality in living a life with Peggy but it’s the same reality. My view anyway. Makes more sense I think!

I may have confused it with Loki, basically it has to get to Endgame first for them to go back and mess it up for Loki to get the tesseract, so the first run through is where Loki does not get the tesseract. When cap goes back to put stones back it plays through the first run through first before Loki gets tesseract gets to end game and then during the mission Loki gets it and creating an alternate reality that we are in now way a part of.

 

[gohei_]

I'm sorry Kris but your thinking just doesn't make sense in the movie.
All The movies so far are The Prime timeline. Nothing is gonna change what happened. Nothing.

As soon as someone goes back in time, just them being there creates a new timeline/reality, different from The Prime one. They can always Come back to The Prime timeline but Nothing Will be different.

It's True though that if Steve goes back and try to change as little as possible, he Will eventually Come back to The moment where present Steve goes back in time. But it won't be The same Sam and Bucky waiting for him.

 

[Mr. Peanut]

Doesn't it let you translate it? Anyway here's it:

Q: Did Captain America's action at the end affect the timeline? Does that mean there was a time where two CA existed in a same universe?

A: To me, CA's action in the end wasn't the fact he wanted to change anything, it's more like me has made a choice. He chose to go back to past and lived with the one he loved for the rest of his life. The time travel in this movie created an alternate reality. He lived a completely different life in that world. We don't know how exactly his life turned out, but I'd like to believe he still helped many others when they were needed in that world. Yes, there were two CA in that reality, it's just like what Hulk said, what happened in the past has already happened. If you go back to past, you simply created a new reality. The characters in this movie created new timeline when they went back to the past, but it had no effect to the prime universe. What happened in the past 22 movies was still canon.

Q: EG's plot, is it a parallel universe or a closed time loop?

A: Nope, not a time loop. Both Ancinet One and Hulk were right. You can't change the future by simply going back to past. But it's possible to create a different alternate future. It's not butterfly effect. Every decision you made in the past could potentially create a new timeline. For example, the old Cap at the end movie, he lived his married life in a different universe from the main one. He had to make another jump back to the main universe at the end to give the shield to Sam.

If this is accurate, then it just takes me back to my original thought: the Russos should have done a better job conveying that old Cap had arrived from an alternate timeline.

 

[Kris]

I'm sorry Kris but your thinking just doesn't make sense in the movie.
All The movies so far are The Prime timeline. Nothing is gonna change what happened. Nothing.

As soon as someone goes back in time, just them being there creates a new timeline/reality, different from The Prime one. They can always Come back to The Prime timeline but Nothing Will be different.

It's True though that if Steve goes back and try to change as little as possible, he Will eventually Come back to The moment where present Steve goes back in time. But it won't be The same Sam and Bucky waiting for him.

Ok, makes sense, let me get my head around that for a moment and i’ll come back to you haha!

 

[Kris]

Ok, makes sense, let me get my head around that for a moment and i’ll come back to you haha!

Ok so if old Cap walked to where Bucky and Sam were he would still see them but he would be the captain from the main prime timeline/reality seeing the resolve from the new timeline/reality. So say in the new timeline (where he grew old) he walked to Sam and Bucky and sat on a bench. In our timeline Cap would never have come back. So he had to somehow get back to the main timeline. That makes sense!

Does it explain how he could come back without the machine?

Also in the does that mean I. The new reality cap goes into to live with Peggy, everything plays through normally, Loki won’t get tesseract in New York etc.?

 

[gohei_]

Bruce says that Steve missed his exit while traveling back. That could just mean that Steve actually came back a lot earlier, while The machine was unattended, or even before The big battle. Or, The Russos just simply liked it better having him just appear there, without too much thought of exactly how he came back.

Regarding Loke, he is still on the loose with The tesseract, because that is yet another different timeline. People have mentioned that maybe the Loke tv show Will be about that version of Loke.

He might not get The tesseract in Steves new timeline but that other timeline has already been created.

 

[Mike Murdock]

"Exact second" means:

1- There will be a time traveling Avenger returning the specific stone. His presence alters the past anyway.
2- It cannot be the "exact second", because there's already a time traveling Avenger stealing the stone to save the MCU timeline.

I posted this before but to me, it's less about not creating an alternate timeline so much as not dooming an alternate timeline to a world without their Infinity Stone.

 

[ZenTheAvenger]

Steve didn't need to come back via the machine, he had the GPS tech and could easily have laid in his own coordinates, just like Tony and him did when going from 2012 New York to 1970 New Jersey. They didn't use a platform for that, they just used the devices.

 

[gohei_]

I posted this before but to me, it's less about not creating an alternate timeline so much as not dooming an alternate timeline to a world without their Infinity Stone
.

Exactly. The People living in the timeline doesn't Know or care about new branches forming, but The Stones are important for their future.

Actually, I am more confused by how The Stones could even be destroyed in the first place, considering how important and powerful they are.

 

[Kris]

N

Ok so if old Cap walked to where Bucky and Sam were he would still see them but he would be the captain from the main prime timeline/reality seeing the resolve from the new timeline/reality. So say in the new timeline (where he grew old) he walked to Sam and Bucky and sat on a bench. In our timeline Cap would never have come back. So he had to somehow get back to the main timeline. That makes sense!

Does it explain how he could come back without the machine?

Also in the does that mean I. The new reality cap goes into to live with Peggy, everything plays through normally, Loki won’t get tesseract in New York etc.?

No I think i’m still right the first time. They just go to different points in time on the same reality/timeline. The only branch I can see if where

Bruce says that Steve missed his exit while traveling back. That could just mean that Steve actually came back a lot earlier, while The machine was unattended, or even before The big battle. Or, The Russos just simply liked it better having him just appear there, without too much thought of exactly how he came back.

Regarding Loke, he is still on the loose with The tesseract, because that is yet another different timeline. People have mentioned that maybe the Loke tv show Will be about that version of Loke.

He might not get The tesseract in Steves new timeline but that other timeline has already been created.

Ok cool! This now makes some sense! One more question though, this one is good! In all the possibilities Doctor Strange saw, Thanos wins, except one (main timeline). Does this mean that in every other timeline / reality created, Thanos eventually wins??? I think so!

 

[gohei_]

Regarding Dr Strange when he looked ahead in time he used his own timeline as The starting point, and not taking The other eventual timelines into account.

Besides,I think it's safe to say that whenever he time travels it uses different rules since he is using magic and not tech.

 

[Silvermoon]

N


No I think i’m still right the first time. They just go to different points in time on the same reality/timeline. The only branch I can see if where


Ok cool! This now makes some sense! One more question though, this one is good! In all the possibilities Doctor Strange saw, Thanos wins, except one (main timeline). Does this mean that in every other timeline / reality created, Thanos eventually wins??? I think so!

Not necessarily, we already know there’s at least one alternate timeline where Thanos (his army, Nebula and Gamora) cease to exist in that timeline’s year 2014. That’s because that timeline’s Thanos and crew used prime timeline’s 2023 Nebula to travel to the prime timeline where they all (save for Gamora) were killed and therefore unable to return to their own timeline. So that branch at least is safe from Thanos’ further machinations

Not to mention, as said above, he was looking at possibilities for his own timeline....not necessarily actually looking at alternate timelines

 

[B]

The 'Avengers: Endgame' Plot-Hole Is Not Really A Plot-Hole At All (Spoilers)

I like how in the article there's a point in which the writer says the time travel 'plot hole' has "a relatively simple explanation", which is preceded & followed up by walls of text trying to explain it all.

It makes a little more sense having read it, but it's still very convoluted in my opinion.

 

[Kris]

Not necessarily, we already know there’s at least one alternate timeline where Thanos (his army, Nebula and Gamora) cease to exist in that timeline’s year 2014. That’s because that timeline’s Thanos and crew used prime timeline’s 2023 Nebula to travel to the prime timeline where they all (save for Gamora) were killed and therefore unable to return to their own timeline. So that branch at least is safe from Thanos’ further machinations

But then that eliminates Doctor Strange saying that there is only one timeline/reality/possibility that The Avengers win. If a new reality was created where Thanos does not exist in 2014. Then The avengers win again....

 

[Kris]

But then that eliminates Doctor Strange saying that there is only one timeline/reality/possibility that The Avengers win. If a new reality was created where Thanos does not exist in 2014. Then The avengers win again....

Ok just looked back at this. It’s 14000605 possibilities, not realities. The possibilities likely relate to decisions made in that timeline....maybe

 

[Mutant 77]

Hey guys:

‘Avengers: Endgame’: The Screenwriters Answer Every Question You Might Have

 

[Kris]

I like how in the article there's a point in which the writer says the time travel 'plot hole' has "a relatively simple explanation", which is preceded & followed up by walls of text trying to explain it all.

It makes a little more sense having read it, but it's still very convoluted in my opinion.

Honestly I should’ve just read this, Cap uses GPS device to get back to main timeline. He took extra pym particles to execute his plan. I don’t get how cap and Tony got back to the main timeline from the past if they need the machine to go forward in time, maybe someone can explain that?

 

[Kanon]

But then that eliminates Doctor Strange saying that there is only one timeline/reality/possibility that The Avengers win. If a new reality was created where Thanos does not exist in 2014. Then The avengers win again....

In that Thanos-less branch, Strange never has to look into possible futures. The only outcomes that count are those spawning from the confrontation on Titan.