Lionsgate and Avi Arad's Naruto

Sword Art Online has its haters, but it's also very popular. Not necessarily popular enough to become a giant movie franchise, but it's a pretty popular anime, light novel and game series. Just got a new anime movie, and a I think a third season is in the works as well.

I personally like Sword Art Online, but I understand why others do not. I mean Ready Player One basically rips off the Sword Art Online story ;)
 
Sword Art Online has its haters, but it's also very popular. Not necessarily popular enough to become a giant movie franchise, but it's a pretty popular anime, light novel and game series. Just got a new anime movie, and a I think a third season is in the works as well.

To be fair, young adult novels like the Divergent series or Maze Runner weren't much more popular than these animes, yet, they have gotten properly budgeted adaptations with varying levels of success (Divergent has only gone on hiatus because they thought there was enough demand for a two-parter finale. Had they kept to the trilogy idea, they would have successfuly adapted everything).

Franchises like One Piece, Dragon Ball, Naruto, Bleach, Fullmetal Alchemist, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Attack on Titan, etc have vastly outsold many of those book series in both sales and fandom. The first three have sales that are even comparable to big superheroes like Superman, Batman and Spider-Man (and those have been around for longer than these superhero franchises). Which is why i wonder why Hollywood keeps giving them the second-rate treatment when it comes to live-action adaptations.

While i realy dislike stuff like Fairy Tail, i would have to disagree with the "Not necessarily popular enough to become a giant movie franchise" argument. I think many of these franchises do have enough popularity to pull off successful film series. It's just that many are adapted with very limited budgets or piss of their fandoms by making nonsensical changes that take away from the original's integrity.

I personally like Sword Art Online, but I understand why others do not. I mean Ready Player One basically rips off the Sword Art Online story ;)

It's not as if that story was a completely original one to begin with. .Hack supposedly has the same plot. Even though it's anime came out a few months after the original SAO light novels, it's anime predates SAO and it's plot was probably being developed before without knowledge of SAO's existence.
 
To be fair, young adult novels like the Divergent series or Maze Runner weren't much more popular than these animes, yet, they have gotten properly budgeted adaptations with varying levels of success (Divergent has only gone on hiatus because they thought there was enough demand for a two-parter finale. Had they kept to the trilogy idea, they would have successfuly adapted everything).

Franchises like One Piece, Dragon Ball, Naruto, Bleach, Fullmetal Alchemist, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Attack on Titan, etc have vastly outsold many of those book series in both sales and fandom. The first three have sales that are even comparable to big superheroes like Superman, Batman and Spider-Man (and those have been around for longer than these superhero franchises). Which is why i wonder why Hollywood keeps giving them the second-rate treatment when it comes to live-action adaptations.

While i realy dislike stuff like Fairy Tail, i would have to disagree with the "Not necessarily popular enough to become a giant movie franchise" argument. I think many of these franchises do have enough popularity to pull off successful film series. It's just that many are adapted with very limited budgets or piss of their fandoms by making nonsensical changes that take away from the original's integrity.



It's not as if that story was a completely original one to begin with. .Hack supposedly has the same plot. Even though it's anime came out a few months after the original SAO light novels, it's anime predates SAO and it's plot was probably being developed before without knowledge of SAO's existence.
Except it's material written by Japanese authors PRIMARILY for a Japanese audience. And they all have concepts and ideas that are rather out there and do not necessarily translate well into live action.

And just for example, a lot of Shonen Jump anime tends to have really outrageous humor, which you can't really translate into live action either. Those kind of chibi-super-deformed reality defying reactions.
 
Meh they can get away with whitewashing for naruto. I mean he looks like a white boy. Sasuke can pass for Japanese .
 
If they do this. I hope they focus on the Zabuza storyline for the movie.
 
Fairy Tail's pretty bad though. Never watched Sword Art Online in full but isn't it also known for being very mediocre when it comes to plot? From what i heard, it's almost like the Twilight of shounen anime.

Keep in mind we are talking about adaptations, not beat-for-beat translations, so personal taste doesn't really matter all that much since it will be at least somewhat different. Both series are/were popular and the concepts are fine. There are still some issues that would come up (for example, a live action version of Fairy Tail would have a big problem in how to handle the character of Happy).

ironwez20 said:
Meh they can get away with whitewashing for naruto. I mean he looks like a white boy. Sasuke can pass for Japanese .

Naruto Uzumaki is pretty clearly Japanese along with all the other characters. Beyond that the whole world is set in a clearly Japanese based fantasy world. Making Naruto white would be as out of place as making Ragnar Japanese on Vikings.
 
Except it's material written by Japanese authors PRIMARILY for a Japanese audience. And they all have concepts and ideas that are rather out there and do not necessarily translate well into live action.

And just for example, a lot of Shonen Jump anime tends to have really outrageous humor, which you can't really translate into live action either. Those kind of chibi-super-deformed reality defying reactions.

Almost any anime/manga would have to be heavily adapted. It is just that some (ex. Slayers) would likely be far easier than others (ex. Dragon Ball).
 
Naruto Uzumaki is pretty clearly Japanese along with all the other characters. Beyond that the whole world is set in a clearly Japanese based fantasy world. Making Naruto white would be as out of place as making Ragnar Japanese on Vikings.
Y'know, I was gonna argue with you, and even cite the more fantastical adaptations of Norse mythology of Thor and its adaptations being multicultural, but when you mention Naruto's names, they are all VERY Japanese, and that creates a kind of dissonance, that's hard to reconcile. Of course, you could double down and simply change/remove some of the surnames, but that never seems to end well, even though it should be able to in theory.

On this popularity stuff, it's gonna be a hard sell to convince people that anime is more popular than YA, because it's not about raw viewership, it's about accessibility and cultural impact. There aren't a lot of casual anime fans nor is it easy to get into Naruto, to say nothing of Fairy Tale or My Hero Academia.

And adaptation is so much harder because of the cost of effects and the cost of Westernizing. Divergent managed a great action scene just by giving guns to two girls... but... what does the Rock Lee vs Gaara fight look like with real kids doing it? Is it like those cheesy day-in-After-Effects adaptations they do in Japan? Is it like those really weak martial arts-cgi integrations from M. Night's Last Airbender? A combination? Or do you just skip the kids stuff altogether and pretend they start their Genin training at 16-18 so you can cast adults? Adapting Shonen Jump anime is a nightmare.

But you know one movie that got the closest to adapting Shonen Jump style action (and humor come to think of it): Scott Pilgrim vs The World. And it was AWESOME and it *tanked*, because it's too 'weird' to pull in any casuals. Naruto would have the same problem.

I think the best move in adapting an anime is to basically do with Ghost in the Shell what The Matrix did. Pull it down to something recognizably Western and then wait for the end of the film to show off the anime feats.
 
DrCosmic said:
Y'know, I was gonna argue with you, and even cite the more fantastical adaptations of Norse mythology of Thor and its adaptations being multicultural, but when you mention Naruto's names, they are all VERY Japanese, and that creates a kind of dissonance, that's hard to reconcile. Of course, you could double down and simply change/remove some of the surnames, but that never seems to end well, even though it should be able to in theory.

In theory, yes. Death Note, for example. There is nothing that really says Light needs to be Japanese. The important thing is that he's a high school student.

The problem in this case is that they are all ninjas. That means Japan. The only way to really change it is to make it so they are not ninjas anymore. And by that point it is no longer Naruto.
 
In Death Note, yes there is. His name is Light Yagami. He's born and raised in Japan. His family is Japanese. The whole story is set in Japan.
 
In Death Note, yes there is. His name is Light Yagami. He's born and raised in Japan. His family is Japanese. The whole story is set in Japan.

I know it is. But there is nothing about the concept of a high school student finding a book that allows him to kill people in secret by writing their names in it that says it has to take place in Japan. It could work just as easily taking place pretty much anywhere. Death Note just happens to take place in Japan because it is a Japanese story written for a Japanese audience.

Naruto on the other hand is impossible to divorce from its Japanese influence. The basic concept of the characters going to ninja school to become full-fledged ninja mercenaries is quintessentially Japanese. Unlike Death Note you can't take that concept, put it in another setting, and have it make any sense at all.
 
I know it is. But there is nothing about the concept of a high school student finding a book that allows him to kill people in secret by writing their names in it that says it has to take place in Japan. It could work just as easily taking place pretty much anywhere. Death Note just happens to take place in Japan because it is a Japanese story written for a Japanese audience.

Naruto on the other hand is impossible to divorce from its Japanese influence. The basic concept of the characters going to ninja school to become full-fledged ninja mercenaries is quintessentially Japanese. Unlike Death Note you can't take that concept, put it in another setting, and have it make any sense at all.

He is called Kira for a reason, all over the world. Because he was Japanese. He wasnt called Kira because that's convenient.
 
He is called Kira for a reason, all over the world. Because he was Japanese. He wasnt called Kira because that's convenient.

Again. I'm just talking about the concept. Not the details of the actual story as it exists now. I'm saying you could, in theory, take that basic concept and put it in another setting with the characters names changed and it could, at least in theory, work.

Think Magnificent Seven, A Fistful of Dollars, Insomnia, The Departed, or something along those lines.
 
Again. I'm just talking about the concept. Not the details of the actual story as it exists now. I'm saying you could, in theory, take that basic concept and put it in another setting with the characters names changed and it could, at least in theory, work.

Think Magnificent Seven, A Fistful of Dollars, Insomnia, The Departed, or something along those lines.

you can take many things as concept and make something similar to what you to adapt. but if you take too many liberties you will lose what made original concept so great. and again naruto is just like dbz literally unfilmable. you would need to change so many things so it can work as a movie and at the end it wouldnt be anymore naruto. it would be just ip brand. It would end up like dragon ball evolution. Hell dragon ball evolution was more naruto wise story than anything dragon ball releated lol

if you truly want to adapt something to make it work, find properties which can be made and can work on movie screen. Rurouni Kenshin is perfect example. Hell, I prefer that movie trilogy over anime. Movie captured it better than I ever expected it. It's truly one of greatest manga/anime adaptations ever. And yes, that trilogy did make some liberties, but not character or setting wise, but story wise.

Full Metal Alchemist, Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, hell after even Bleach could work if you truly want focus on making one of Big 3.

Closest thing I saw from Naruto being adapted as movie was than fan movie Naruto Shippuden: Dreamers Fight. And it's great as fan movie. But I still dont think it's something you can put in cinema.
 
Thing is in, in Naruto, everything that happens in Naruto is part of the world building and history. It's part of the status quo. So you can't have characters doing wink and nudge jokes about how ridiculous some of the things are and sound. It's an immersive world.

You can't take the Marvel approach to Naruto. But the humor in the story usually comes from a Japanese place and Japanese culture and traditions.
 
Most of the Shippuuden era is terrible, Zabuza arc is terrible, I don't want to expect this movie to be any better.
I personally like Sword Art Online, but I understand why others do not. I mean Ready Player One basically rips off the Sword Art Online story ;)
The original Ready Player One novel was produced and published in the 80s, the movie adapting it can't be ripping something modern off.
 
Not much to see here.
Wonder if Max Landis is next or already got a turn on this merry-go-round. I'd want his input on the action, at the very least. RED guys are ok.

He is called Kira for a reason, all over the world. Because he was Japanese. He wasnt called Kira because that's convenient.

According to wikipedia, that name means different things to different countries/cultures/eras, though typical connotation denotes omnipotence. It's been a while, but iirc, he picked that name because he was aware of that much.
 
Most of the Shippuuden era is terrible, Zabuza arc is terrible, I don't want to expect this movie to be any better.
The original Ready Player One novel was produced and published in the 80s, the movie adapting it can't be ripping something modern off.

I thought it came out in 2011?
 
I could at least see a scenario, where given enough care that possibly they could make a good movie out of the Wave Country arc. But then right after that is the Chunin Exam arc and that's definitely unfilmable.
 
I thought it came out in 2011?
:huh: I looked it up and, I was wrong.
I remembered the Happy Console Gamer video talking about the trailer, the words "80s Nostalgia" were branded in my mind and I thought the books was released in that decade.
 
:huh: I looked it up and, I was wrong.
I remembered the Happy Console Gamer video talking about the trailer, the words "80s Nostalgia" were branded in my mind and I thought the books was released in that decade.
OK gotcha. And yeah, I can see how that mix-up would happen.
 
I could at least see a scenario, where given enough care that possibly they could make a good movie out of the Wave Country arc. But then right after that is the Chunin Exam arc and that's definitely unfilmable.
I feel like if you even attempted Naruto you would have to go a completely different route from the anime and manga arcs. If you wanted a movie, you'd basically have to follow the movie format. Give Naruto tough enemies he can defeat in two hours and not several hundred episodes ;)

What will Avi Arad say to the people who were so angry about Ghost in the Shell if he casts a white actor as Sasuke?
 
Avi arad? RIP

EDIT:just noticed I already said this in the first page :funny:
 
Except it's material written by Japanese authors PRIMARILY for a Japanese audience. And they all have concepts and ideas that are rather out there and do not necessarily translate well into live action.

That depends. The execution might often be out there in the cases of One Piece, where live-action loses some of it's spirit, but a lot of mangas/ animes have the exact same kind of fictional universes and concepts Hollywood is constantly looking for. If Fullmetal Alchemist or Attack on Titan had been american Young Adult novels with the exact same plot, but had only sold a fraction of what their mangas did, Hollywood would probably have still rushed to adapt them.

To me, saying these mangas have concepts and ideas that are "out there" and therefore cannot be adapted is like saying you can't adapt superhero comic books. Because yeah, some might be pretty impossible to adapt, but a lot of them actualy aren't. Fullmetal, Attack on Titan and Death Note have pretty simple but intriguing concepts. That kind of is what Hollywood has kept looking for in new movie franchises.

And just for example, a lot of Shonen Jump anime tends to have really outrageous humor, which you can't really translate into live action either. Those kind of chibi-super-deformed reality defying reactions.

Just cause you can't adapt every single aspect of a property, it doesn't mean you can't adapt the property. You just need to capture the spirit. Stuff like One Piece would be pretty close to impossible, i agree, but look at the Rurouni Kenshin films, they captured the spirit of the manga very well, even though the original story also had plenty of chibi-style reactions.

On this popularity stuff, it's gonna be a hard sell to convince people that anime is more popular than YA, because it's not about raw viewership, it's about accessibility and cultural impact.

You think Divergent is more accessible and had a bigger cultural impact than the likes of Death Note, Dragon Ball, Attack on Titan or Fullmetal Alchemist? Realy?

There aren't a lot of casual anime fans nor is it easy to get into Naruto, to say nothing of Fairy Tale or My Hero Academia.

There aren't? Cause pretty much everyone knows what Dragon Ball is, even without having to be a fan of anime. You might ask a person in his/her 20s who's not a fan of anime if he/she watched Dragon ball during their childhood, and most people are probably going to say "Yes". And why is it that an anime is always considered niche, but an american cartoon like He-Man or Transformers aren't? Because they're japanese? Because had some of these stories been done by americans, i doubt people would be here discussing how niche they were. I never see anyone in the He-Man live-action thread questioning that franchise's popularity for a live-action film, even though i doubt it's as popular worldwide as the likes of Dragon Ball or Sailor Moon. Anime/ manga might be a niche, but only in the same sense the fantasy genre and superhero comic books are niche, in that some of these stories can be major cultural phenomenons, like Lord of the Rings and Spider-Man were.

Keep in mind that i'm not saying all of these properties should be adapted, i'm just arguing for their impact and how it makes financial sense to invest in them.

And adaptation is so much harder because of the cost of effects and the cost of Westernizing. Divergent managed a great action scene just by giving guns to two girls... but... what does the Rock Lee vs Gaara fight look like with real kids doing it? Is it like those cheesy day-in-After-Effects adaptations they do in Japan? Is it like those really weak martial arts-cgi integrations from M. Night's Last Airbender? A combination? Or do you just skip the kids stuff altogether and pretend they start their Genin training at 16-18 so you can cast adults? Adapting Shonen Jump anime is a nightmare.

You answer that question right in the next paragraph...

But you know one movie that got the closest to adapting Shonen Jump style action (and humor come to think of it): Scott Pilgrim vs The World. And it was AWESOME and it *tanked*, because it's too 'weird' to pull in any casuals. Naruto would have the same problem.

But did it fail just because it was weird? It didn't have anything to do with the fact that it's didn't have any stars or brandable names in it? I mean, you actualy want to compare how many people know what Scott Pilgrim is in comparison with Naruto? Nevermind the fact that Naruto has already sold 200 million of copies worldwide (Scott Pilgrim's major accomplishment in 2010 was having 1 million copies in print) and that a large percentage of Naruto's fans don't even buy the manga volumes, just watch the anime.

A lot of these manga/ anime adaptations could lead into gigantic film franchises, they just need to be adapted by people who respect the spirit of the stories and know how to make a good movie. Just like the superhero genre was before this current string of successful adaptations, that's not happening. And just like a lot of people now think manga adaptations aren't possible and that their properties are too much of a niche, people also used to think that with superhero films.
 
You think Divergent is more accessible and had a bigger cultural impact than the likes of Death Note, Dragon Ball, Attack on Titan or Fullmetal Alchemist? Realy?

Of course not, that's why I compared anime and YA broadly. The most popular YA series: Harry Potter, Hunger Games and Twilight absolutely out impact all of those put together, even though they are some of if not THE biggest Anime franchises right now. My point is not that anime is not worth adapting, but that YA, being an all around more impactful and popular niche in the west cannot be used as a comparison or benchmark. Case in point, you can ask any person Gen X down to teens about Dragonball and there's some recognition, but you can ask anyone ALIVE about Harry Potter, and there'll be some recognition.

There aren't? Cause pretty much everyone knows what Dragon Ball is, even without having to be a fan of anime. You might ask a person in his/her 20s who's not a fan of anime if he/she watched Dragon ball during their childhood, and most people are probably going to say "Yes". And why is it that an anime is always considered niche, but an american cartoon like He-Man or Transformers aren't? Because they're japanese? Because had some of these stories been done by americans, i doubt people would be here discussing how niche they were. I never see anyone in the He-Man live-action thread questioning that franchise's popularity for a live-action film, even though i doubt it's as popular worldwide as the likes of Dragon Ball or Sailor Moon. Anime/ manga might be a niche, but only in the same sense the fantasy genre and superhero comic books are niche, in that some of these stories can be major cultural phenomenons, like Lord of the Rings and Spider-Man were.

Keep in mind that i'm not saying all of these properties should be adapted, i'm just arguing for their impact and how it makes financial sense to invest in them.
Anime is considered more niche because it is counter culture, so yes, it literally is just because it's Japanese, because access to it involves immersion in Japanese culture and language, and so yes, if they were done by Americans, not only would many of the stories be materially different, but, as you say, they would not be considered as niche.

And while it does make financial sense to invest in them to a lesser degree than YA properties, twist is that they require so much MORE financial investment than Western stuff aimed at a similar age group (which is part of YA pops up in the first place). The kind of fight scene that ends Twilight is the kind of fight scene that *starts* Naruto.

You answer that question right in the next paragraph...

But did it fail just because it was weird? It didn't have anything to do with the fact that it's didn't have any stars or brandable names in it? I mean, you actualy want to compare how many people know what Scott Pilgrim is in comparison with Naruto? Nevermind the fact that Naruto has already sold 200 million of copies worldwide (Scott Pilgrim's major accomplishment in 2010 was having 1 million copies in print) and that a large percentage of Naruto's fans don't even buy the manga volumes, just watch the anime.

A lot of these manga/ anime adaptations could lead into gigantic film franchises, they just need to be adapted by people who respect the spirit of the stories and know how to make a good movie. Just like the superhero genre was before this current string of successful adaptations, that's not happening. And just like a lot of people now think manga adaptations aren't possible and that their properties are too much of a niche, people also used to think that with superhero films.
It being 'weird' influences its ability to attract stars and brandable names, as does its focus on young people, eliminating the vast majority of potential brandable names, something that is also true of the animes it draws so much influence from.

And yes, clearly anime is successful worldwide, no one's questioning that, or that Naruto is more successful than Scott Pilgrim. The point is that anime presents difficulties in accessibility and cost that make adapting it uniquely difficult.

This is not unlike the challenges that comic book adaptations experienced 20-30 years ago, only the very biggest characters had any chance, and the ones that were done paled, deeply, in comparison to their comic book glory. Only after decades of development of a mainstream audience and increases in technology and filmmaking techniques that could accommodate comic book action did they begin to have their heydey, which we are now in the middle of.

Western adaptations of anime need a similar maturity, and no singular talent can make it happen. No singular talent will be able to, no matter how passionate and skilled, create a bankable star that can play Naruto, nor will they be able to single handedly figure out how to take all the glory of Naruto and do it on a 75M budget.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but there's just hurdles here that don't apply to YA or superhero films.

Now, all that said, this is mostly about Shonen Anime. There's absolutely nothing stopping an adaptation of Fruits Basket or even Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya from being just as awesome on the kind of budgets people are likely to recoup from anime adaptations.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"