logans lustful advances

[DarknessOfDeath]

.... ditto

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Yeah Jackman kept sayin that in the interview on the hype a few weeks ago,meaning he just going after something he can't...Jean only loves Cyke..Its seems thats it not jean that in love with two men...its the other way around they are in love with her and she chooses one of them...

oh yeah. that makes sense... talk about conflicts... and im referring to the scene between him and Storm... "Because you love her..." but he doesn't say anything back to her... after she leaves the room, we see him shut his eyes in deep thought... conflicted... and i've been there. so I can relate.

 

[undomiel]

And I must disagree. Firstly, there has been ZERO indication that Jean loves Logan - in fact, Zak Penn has stated publically that the script was written specifically in a way that Jean showed ZERO love (the romantic kind) for Logan. Do a search and you should be able to find the interview somewhere.

Secondly, Jean never made any passes on Logan except after her Phoenix persona manifested. And I know you may not agree with the following argument, but there is strong, irrefutable evidence that suggests Jean was not sane and that the Phoenix in no way, shape or form represented Jean's deepest desires/loves.

Oh, really? Then I guess it was just Jean's insanity talking when she gets upset about what happened to Scott. C'mon -- she was still herself when she started making love to Logan. The only difference up to that moment was that Xavier's mental barriers were gone, so she was not perhaps as inhibited about her feelings as she has been in the past.

And "zero" love for Logan is ridiculous. I do not believe her feelings for Logan were at the same level as his for her, but if the writers are in fact trying to claim she had "zero" love for him, they're shooting themselves in the foot. The story works because Jean and Logan have a bond. To say she cares absolutely nothing for him is to stand in denial of almost every single scene the two of them have had together in the last three films. And decent women like Jean Grey are not out for a one-night stand with any guy they think is attractive -- that's a total violation of her character. If she wants to sleep with Logan, she must have some feelings of love for him.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

So who has chocolate lustful advances?

 

[D-scythe]

And "zero" love for Logan is ridiculous. I do not believe her feelings for Logan were at the same level as his for her, but if the writers are in fact trying to claim she had "zero" love for him, they're shooting themselves in the foot. The story works because Jean and Logan have a bond. To say she cares absolutely nothing for him is to stand in denial of almost every single scene the two of them have had together in the last three films. And decent women like Jean Grey are not out for a one-night stand with any guy they think is attractive -- that's a total violation of her character. If she wants to sleep with Logan, she must have some feelings of love for him.

Firstly, I never said Logan and Jean had ZERO love. If you read my post correctly, I said that there was ZERO indication that Jean loved Logan, which does not mean she felt nothing. Secondly, Jean and Logan don't have a bond. Thirdly, again, I never said she didn't care for Logan, just that she didn't have any romantic love for him and no repressed desire stuff as well.

And fourthly, you were joking when you typed this right? "And decent women like Jean Grey are not out for a one-night stand with any guy they think is attractive -- that's a total violation of her character. If she wants to sleep with Logan, she must have some feelings of love for him."

That's utter ridiculousness. You just confused lust with love.

 

[undomiel]

Firstly, I never said Logan and Jean had ZERO love. If you read my post correctly, I said that there was ZERO indication that Jean loved Logan, which does not mean she felt nothing. Secondly, Jean and Logan don't have a bond. Thirdly, again, I never said she didn't care for Logan, just that she didn't have any romantic love for him and no repressed desire stuff as well.

The point of Jean supposedly having "zero" love for Logan is the point I was addressing. So let me get this straight -- you're now saying that Jean and Logan do have love for each other, and that it's not just one-sided on Logan's part? Because if you are saying that, then I agree with you. But if she cares for Logan, that is a bond -- that's what I mean by it.

And fourthly, you were joking when you typed this right? "And decent women like Jean Grey are not out for a one-night stand with any guy they think is attractive -- that's a total violation of her character. If she wants to sleep with Logan, she must have some feelings of love for him."

That's utter ridiculousness. You just confused lust with love.

Please refrain from accusing me of something I didn't do. I would like for you to explain to me how that my statement is a confusion between lust and love. Women do not tend to want to sleep with men to whom they are not emotionally attached ("in love with"). There is a type of woman who is like that, but Jean Grey is not that type at all. Women are not like men -- they do not tend to separate love and sexual feelings. For most women, the two things go hand-in-hand, therefore it is reasonable to assume that if Jean had sexual desire for Logan (which all of you are claiming she did), she was also falling in love with him. As far as I am concerned, it is a degradation of Jean's character to say that she would want to sleep with someone for whom she had no feelings of love.

 

[Baredevil]

Hmm...I may be jumping in, but the "Jean" that Logan was canoodling with on the examining table wasn't exactly the Jean Grey we knew from X:1 and X:2. Even Xavier himself stated that.

Her seemingly overwhelming desire to get it on with Logan right there and then, to me, was meant to demonstrate the Phoenix' - not Jean's - raging appetites and desires. The Professor himself stated that the Phoenix part of Jean was "purely an instinctual creature---full of joy, full of desire...and full of rage."

As for Jean's flirting with Logan in the previous two movies, well...to me that doesn't brand her as a woman of loose moral fiber, nor does it in any way detract from her genuine love for Scott. Flirting, ironically, made this particular mutant more human, to my mind. I don't see anything wrong with a little flirting, but even if some of us do take affront at it, the flirting - aside from providing a little cinematic tension between the three characters of Jean, Scott, and Logan - simply made Jean just like the rest of us. Imperfect, warts and all.

 

[D-scythe]

The point of Jean supposedly having "zero" love for Logan is the point I was addressing. So let me get this straight -- you're now saying that Jean and Logan do have love for each other, and that it's not just one-sided on Logan's part? Because if you are saying that, then I agree with you. But if she cares for Logan, that is a bond -- that's what I mean by it.

Of course that's not what I'm saying. There is NO love. There are feelings between them (sexual tension, lust, attraction, chemistry) that MAY develop into love in the future if the circumstances are right. As of now, they have nothing even comparable to love.

Please refrain from accusing me of something I didn't do. I would like for you to explain to me how that my statement is a confusion between lust and love. Women do not tend to want to sleep with men to whom they are not emotionally attached ("in love with"). There is a type of woman who is like that, but Jean Grey is not that type at all. Women are not like men -- they do not tend to separate love and sexual feelings. For most women, the two things go hand-in-hand, therefore it is reasonable to assume that if Jean had sexual desire for Logan (which all of you are claiming she did), she was also falling in love with him. As far as I am concerned, it is a degradation of Jean's character to say that she would want to sleep with someone for whom she had no feelings of love.

I did not accuse you of anything. Let me remind you that YOU said just because a woman wants to sleep with a man means that there is some love/deeper feelings between them. That's LUST, not love. Lots of people want to sleep with lots of other people, it's HUMAN nature. Love goes BEYOND sleeping with someone.

And yes, women ARE like men. Sex and love do not ALWAYS go hand-in-hand. Sure, these two factors ideally should be paired together, but in practice, it's usually NOT. This is a fact, and I don't know why you're disputing facts now to prove your point.

And a lot of men also think that sex and love should come hand-in-hand. I don't know why you're making broad generalizations/stereotypes such as "women are not like men, etc."

 

[undomiel]

Hmm...I may be jumping in, but the "Jean" that Logan was canoodling with on the examining table wasn't exactly the Jean Grey we knew from X:1 and X:2. Even Xavier himself stated that.

Her seemingly overwhelming desire to get it on with Logan right there and then, to me, was meant to demonstrate the Phoenix' - not Jean's - raging appetites and desires. The Professor himself stated that the Phoenix part of Jean was "purely an instinctual creature---full of joy, full of desire...and full of rage."

That's okay, feel free to jump in. I disagree with the notion that Jean was Dark Phoenix from the moment she woke up. That personality didn't manifest itself until after Jean remembered what happened to Scott and then begged Logan to kill her.

And most of the people on this board keep saying "Jean lusted after Logan", so the lab scene fits with what they are already claiming --that she already wanted to sleep with him, Phoenix or not.

As for Jean's flirting with Logan in the previous two movies, well...to me that doesn't brand her as a woman of loose moral fiber, nor does it in any way detract from her genuine love for Scott. Flirting, ironically, made this particular mutant more human, to my mind. I don't see anything wrong with a little flirting, but even if some of us do take affront at it, the flirting - aside from providing a little cinematic tension between the three characters of Jean, Scott, and Logan - simply made Jean just like the rest of us. Imperfect, warts and all.

I did not say that "flirting" indicated she was a woman of loose moral fiber. I said that when people say (and apparently even the writers and Famke have said this) that Jean just wants to sleep with Logan, that does indicate loose moral fiber, especially in light of the claims about her supposed devotion to Scott. Do you see the problem I have? People are trying to idealize her relationship with Scott, but are at the same time claiming she lusts after Logan! And I'm saying you can't have it both ways. If she's truly perfectly devoted to Scott, she wouldn't be interested in Logan, and especially not lusting after him. Many of you seem naive about the damage that would do to a relationship. Somehow I can't picture Scott being okay with this!

 

[D-scythe]

I did not say that "flirting" indicated she was a woman of loose moral fiber. I said that when people say (and apparently even the writers and Famke have said this) that Jean just wants to sleep with Logan, that does indicate loose moral fiber, especially in light of the claims about her supposed devotion to Scott. Do you see the problem I have? People are trying to idealize her relationship with Scott, but are at the same time claiming she lusts after Logan! And I'm saying you can't have it both ways. If she's truly perfectly devoted to Scott, she wouldn't be interested in Logan, and especially not lusting after him. Many of you seem naive about the damage that would do to a relationship. Somehow I can't picture Scott being okay with this!

What? I don't mean to jump in, but how does Jean wanting to sleep with Logan indicate loose moral fibre? It's human nature to feel desire/attraction/lust. It's whether we act on these emotions that make a person who she/he is.

It's perfectly normal to love someone but at the same time think, "Hey, he's (this other guy) pretty hot. He might even be good in bed. Oh, he's flirting with me? That's flattering. But I'm in love with someone else." How is that wrong?

And you seem to be a bit niave about relationships yourself. Your views are very idealistic, IMO.

 

[undomiel]

Of course that's not what I'm saying. There is NO love. There are feelings between them (sexual tension, lust, attraction, chemistry) that MAY develop into love in the future if the circumstances are right. As of now, they have nothing even comparable to love.

You keep contradicting yourself -- you should really go back and read your previous posts. How exactly are you defining "love" anyway?

I did not accuse you of anything. Let me remind you that YOU said just because a woman wants to sleep with a man means that there is some love/deeper feelings between them. That's LUST, not love. Lots of people want to sleep with lots of other people, it's HUMAN nature. Love goes BEYOND sleeping with someone.

You accused me of confusing lust with love, just because I said it's unlikely for Jean (or most women) to feel sexual desire with no emotional attachment, which I believe is truly the case. I think that's a good thing. And just because something is "human nature" doesn't make it good or right. When you say that love goes beyond sleeping with someone, believe me, you don't have to convince me -- that's what I've been trying to say! But it also works the other way around for some people -- they don't desire to sleep with someone unless they love that person -- and that's a good thing! It's not good or noble to say, "oh I just want to sleep with that person, though I care absolutely nothing about them", which, in my understanding, is what you're saying about Jean's feelings toward Logan.

And yes, women ARE like men. Sex and love do not ALWAYS go hand-in-hand. Sure, these two factors ideally should be paired together, but in practice, it's usually NOT. This is a fact, and I don't know why you're disputing facts now to prove your point.

Sad, though, isn't it? And I do agree with you -- some women are like that, but not Jean Grey. Where did I dispute any fact? I never said women didn't separate love from sex, I just said it wasn't a good thing and that I don't believe it fits with the protrait that some of you are trying to paint of Jean.

And a lot of men also think that sex and love should come hand-in-hand. I don't know why you're making broad generalizations/stereotypes such as "women are not like men, etc."

I agree with you. Thankfully, there are men who think that sex and love should go hand-in-hand. And call it a stereotype if you will, but conventional wisdom is on my side. It's been well-acknowledged for ages past that men (sadly) can tend to separate love from sex much more than women.

 

[D-scythe]

You keep contradicting yourself -- you should really go back and read your previous posts. How exactly are you defining "love" anyway?

I'm not contradicting myself. All I see between Jean and Logan is chemistry and attraction and lust. That's not love. Love MAY include feelings of attraction, lust and good chemistry, but love is not JUST attraction, lust and good chemistry. It's incredibly more complex than that.

You accused me of confusing lust with love, just because I said it's unlikely for Jean (or most women) to feel sexual desire with no emotional attachment, which I believe is truly the case. I think that's a good thing. And just because something is "human nature" doesn't make it good or right. When you say that love goes beyond sleeping with someone, believe me, you don't have to convince me -- that's what I've been trying to say! But it also works the other way around for some people -- they don't desire to sleep with someone unless they love that person -- and that's a good thing! It's not good or noble to say, "oh I just want to sleep with that person, though I care absolutely nothing about them", which, in my understanding, is what you're saying about Jean's feelings toward Logan.

I never said Jean wanted to sleep with someone, just that she lusted for Logan. I may have used "wanting to sleep with someone" as the ultimate example of "lust", but lust can also mean a physical attraction, which is exactly what Jean has for Logan. She displayed nothing loving to him.

Sad, though, isn't it? And I do agree with you -- some women are like that, but not Jean Grey. Where did I dispute any fact? I never said women didn't separate love from sex, I just said it wasn't a good thing and that I don't believe it fits with the protrait that some of you are trying to paint of Jean.

I agree with you. Thankfully, there are men who think that sex and love should go hand-in-hand. And call it a stereotype if you will, but conventional wisdom is on my side. It's been well-acknowledged for ages past that men (sadly) can tend to separate love from sex much more than women.

At least we agree on something And as I said before, maybe Jean didn't want to sleep with Logan, but she certainly was attracted to him, and that can be considered lust, so ergo Jean lusted for Logan.

I still don't see where Jean showed any love for Logan. The physical, sexual basis for love is present between them, but all the things about love that goes beyond the sexual is not. So how can it be love?