Love this IMBD post about the Damage/Death Toll in MOS

[Loki882]

He sort of does, but without the pseudo-socialistic politics and anti-establishment philosophy, or at least to the same degree. What I find funny is that Superman is depicted frequently as a Christ-like figure, but he was created by two Jewish guys.

 

[John Lambert]

And the kicker is that Zod probably would have lay waste to Metropolis anyway, if he was any more used to his heat vision the whole city would be in flames. Anyway, I liked that heat vision seems to take anger and focus. It's like the comics, when Supes gets heat vision, you KNOW he's angry. It seemed like he was just getting started to get used to heat vision at the end. If he had all this experience, he would have burnt down the buildings crushed those running out at warp speed. You know he would.

When Kal-el used his heat vision to cauterize Lois's wounds the second time they meet (they first meet as she is getting off the helicopter, and he is the worker taking her bags) he is not angry when using heat vision.

 

[John Lambert]

I wish Superman would have told people to run and show more concern but hey I'm not complain it just a minor thing for me.

In Smallville he warns them to run. With Metropolis he goes to where he needs to to stop the problem, which is over the southern Indian Ocean. If people have not run away from a machine literally leveling buildings, then Superman telling them he is about to fight Zod won't help. Anyway, since he was ambushed by Zod, I am not sure how he would have warned people.

 

[John Lambert]

This! If he saved the people from one building, Zod would throw cars through other buildings. I think he was a little too reckless, but he's had to hold back his entire life. Punching in moderation is something he's probably not used to. Also, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense that if he throws Zod higher in the air, the more likely he could cause devastation in other parts of the world, faster than Superman could keep track and stop him. So in order to "control the damage" he just bear him on the ground.

Well, the building they went through was entirely empty. I think the idea was meant to be all the buildings were empty. It is reasonable to assume that Perry would view DP as essential services, and so be slower to evacuate than in other buildings. So I think we are meant to assume all buildings were evacuated.

The catch is that in MOS Zod is an intensive fighter, who does not give his enemy any chance, but attacks with full force. It is very different than Superman II, although even there it makes little sense than Superman is able to prevent all deaths, especially when he causes debris to rain down on people.

 

[John Lambert]

I don't understand the complaints about the destruction & death toll in MOS. It's not like huge destruction scenes haven't happened in animated versions of Superman either (DCAU) and no one ever complains about those! Is it seriously just because MOS looks more real than a cartoon?

And it's just a movie, geez. It's not like anyone actually died. They were CGI buildings full of CGI people.

I swear some people must have the dumbest brains on the planet to be complaining about the apparent irresponsibility of Supes indirectly causing destruction when he's having to fight Zod.

Other than the first few buildings that the World Engine leveled, I think the buildings were empty.

 

[John Lambert]

Maybe I have a complete minunderstanding of the character that is Superman .....

But on the pecking order of his responsibilities I always thought it went:

1. Protecting the innocent
2. Fighting/Brawling

Was really surprised that this movie featured absolutely none of the luring away of the bad guy to keep them from harming the public. Supes took the fight to them IN public.

You misunderstand Zod's goals. Zod's goal is to kill and destroy humans. His goal is not to defeat Superman per se. So if Superman tries to "lure" Zod away, Zod will just go on a killing spree.

Plus you ignore the fact that Superman put protecting the innocent first. He went after the World Engine as fast as he could. That saved billions of lives.

 

[John Lambert]

Fair enough, ideally he should have taken the battle elsewhere, perhaps to the Arctic, but obviously then it wouldn't be as dramatic, but I get the point. I just still kind of think what if Zod doesn't follow him? Maybe first he goes after some people he believes Clark cares about?

My biggest beef though is that where is no acknowledgement to the destruction made. There definitely should have been. There needed to be a moment where we saw his sadness at what the city just went through.

If he took the battle to the arctic, this would lead to even more complaints of "this is just a repeat of Superman II".

 

[John Lambert]

I'm honestly glad they didn't focus too much on Superman saving lives. I mean, seriously, any smart person had more than enough time to evacuate. Why the hell were there people at Museums and at work when it was already announced 24 hours ago that a militant alien population was threatening the city? I think the filmmakers emphasized Superman's capacity and genuine intent to save lives enough without overdoing it.

Plus, the whole distraction of the hero saving lives while in battle has been done to death...it's a bit cliche. Towards the end, when I saw all of those people in the building where the final battle took place...all I could think is...why the hell aren't these people leaving the city? especially with kids? Obviously, these people did not value their lives. You have a whole city collapsing around you and these people seem to have no sense of urgency or survival...hell...even at the daily planet...these fools waited until the last minute to decide to evacuate. where they do that at?

If a militant alien race threatens Washington, DC today...I can guarantee you I won't be any where downtown or at work or at a museum the next day...it's just cray.

To be fair, Zod never threatened anywhere specifically. He threatened the entire earth. He does not move on Metropolis until he opens fire with the World Engine. People have no warning that Metropolis will be ground zero.

 

[John Lambert]

i understand all of the complaints to a certain degree. the one thing i wish they would have shown is supes using his freeze breath to extinguish the 7-11 fire. now, that would have killed two birds with one stone: acknowledging and addressing the damage and potential life threatening situation AND displaying another power.

sigh.

Does this Superman even have freeze breath? Did we ever see him use it at all? Maybe they decided such a power was just not realistic. We can't assume he has a power unless it is shown.

 

[John Lambert]

Yup. I'm sure that's what he planned to do.
Do you have a point?

I was responding to someone who wanted to see some concern for the people. He shows that concern with that line.
Would you rather have seen him entertain Faora with a little magic trick while people packed their belongings and left town in a safe and orderly manner?

They want him to use his super-powerful cellophane throw S to stop the bad guys.

 

[John Lambert]

What else was he intending to do to the Terra ship in the Indian Ocean then?

Well, once Superman disabled the World Engine in the Indian Ocean it ended the destruction in Metropolis as well. I got the impression that it was the world engine that was the main power behind the destruction.

Also, technically, it was anti-terraforming. Terra forming is making something like earth. This was making earth not like earth.

 

[John Lambert]

So I've always thought Metropolis was the DC equivalent of Chicago. (I know many comics depict it as east coast. And even neighbors with Gotham. But Chicago makes more sense to me. It's closer to Smallville, more central USA, heck there's even a city called Metropolis in Illinois!

Anyway. For example, Chicago has a population of 2.8 million (rounded up) and an area of 234 square miles. No time in the film do we get a survey of the damage of more than a few square miles. Factor that in with the fact that many people (with common sense during an alien invasion) were probably able to escape.

I estimate no more than a 40-50 thousand casualties. Including those in Smallville. Superman saved billions of innocent lives.

Well, I think they did the actual filming in Chicago. I know in L&C they said Metropolis had 12 million people, and clearly made it northeast/maybe even east coast, and half the time were clearly making in a NYC stand in, but on other occasions they mentioned New York. In STM they filmed Metropolis in New York, and in Superman II we see the Statue of Liberty by Metropolis, if that does not make it NYC nothing would.

However MOS draws some ideas from Smallville. So maybe they do want Metropolis to be Chicago. That would put Smallville and Metropolis in the same time zone. My biggest guess is they are undecided at this point.

 

[John Lambert]

Saving people and "fighting" are two different elements here. A man like Superman with his super speed and strength can't zip around and save someone real fast after distracting or temporarily subjogating his foe? Have you never seen a Superman film before?

One of your problems is that you are judging against other Superman films. Anyway, where would Superman ever have darted off in this film to save someone. He was dealing with equal strength enemies who believed in full court presses, not the slow, taunting, lets blow up one car at a time/don't go for the huge fuel tank enemies in Superman II.

 

[John Lambert]

How? How did he put thousand of people in danger? Oh, when he stopped the World Engine from killing all human life on Earth? Or when he fought Zod in a clearly abandoned part of the city? Or when he kept the Smallville fight in the street as much as he could? Or when he stopped Zods ship? I guess you wanted Superman to have a cloning ability so that he could be 8 places at once. I guess an actual threatening threat is too much for people to handle? "Oh wait, Zod actually is a real threat in this film? Why? I don't want REAL danger! I want happy danger!"

Superman even did strategize. He sends his ally Lois Lane with the ship to get rid of the Kryptonians while he goes to the other side of the world to fight the World Engine. True, he does not coordinate with the police in Metropolis, but really, if someone should do that it is the military. There might be lack of planning, but we can't blame it on Superman.

 

[John Lambert]

It only took Superman a couple of seconds to rebuild the chinese wall (by just looking at it) in The Quest For Peace t:

But does Clark who worked so long as a grunt worker want to put so many people out of work by rebuilding?

Two questions. A-was the Daily Planet one of the leveled buildings from the World Engine ray?

B-If it was, why are we assuming that it was rebuilt. Just because Clark can show up at a building where the Daily Planet is operating, does not mean it is the same building it was in before.

 

[John Lambert]

There's no double standard. If people prefer one over the other, how is that a double standard.

I prefer the way Donner showed Superman, even though the film is dated, and yes campy at times, I thought he captured the essence of who Superman was.

This film captures glimpses of a fully realized modern day Superman, but it's clouded with bad direction and horrible dialogue.

Sorry but David Goyer isn't in the same universe as Mario Puzo. If you don't believe me, just ask the academy of motion pictures, and go watch the Godfather and get back to me.

It has been claimed they never filmed one line from Puzo's script. They might have been better off if they had. He had a much younger Clark running by Lois on the train.

 

[John Lambert]

To be fair(cause I am), it seems people cared more about lois(and the plane) at that point in Returns than they did about Jenny, Perry and that other guy.
Not sure why though, seemed like we had about the same time to get to know each.

Personally I found more the MOS scene more dramatic in terms of stakes and even more so cause I was sure this jenny chick was going to die. Not sure how else that plane scene could have ended.

They care more about Lois, because Lois is Lois. Although, this leads me to ask, why do people say "Superman did not save anyone", when he saved Lois 3 times.

 

[John Lambert]

So they got that deus ex scene from superman 2? I didn't know that.

Who wrote superman 2?

In theory Puzo, although it had even more revisions and rewrites than STM. In STM much of the used script was done by the guy credited as a creative consultant.

Did they keep in the scene of Clark trying to convince Lois that Superman was a fraud, just wirework or trampolines, or did that stay from the script into the film?

 

[BlueLantern]

You're special.

 

[Batmannerism]

By now,

Everyone's seen the Info graphic about the destruction resulting from the
battle in Metropolis

You know

Now that is pretty staggering, but as an alternative perspective
what about THIS :

Superman fails to stop Zod and Kryptonians from terraforming Earth
(or Superman destroys world engine but fails to defeat Zod , who
then exterminates humanity)

confirmed dead : 7,000,000,000 + (entire human population, and probably
entire animal/plant population)

impact comparable to : Global Thermonuclear war

economic cost: $195 quadrillion US dollars.
( $ 195, 000,000,000,000,000, look it up on Wikipedia)

overall impact: Total destruction of absolutely everthing.

What's the point ? Lesser of two evils baby !