The Last Jedi Luke Skywalker's role in "The Last Jedi": Did you like it?

[Tacit Ronin]

Geez, it's like I hear the people walking out of Phantom Menace saying how great it was all over again.

The only people constantly apologizing for the prequels were the obsessed, entitled fanboy types. The critical and audience response was mixed. This time it's the exact opposite.

 

[Agent Orange]

The only people constantly apologizing for the prequels were the obsessed, entitled fanboy types. The critical and audience response was mixed. This time it's the exact opposite.

There's a George Lucas element to the proceedings too. He's gone from a pariah to "King George" again in a segment of the fanbase. "Screw Disney for disrespecting George! Prequels forever!"

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The only people constantly apologizing for the prequels were the obsessed, entitled fanboy types. The critical and audience response was mixed. This time it's the exact opposite.

Great point.

And your sig is scarily accurate and prophetic.

 

[BatLobster]

Maybe the very existence of these new movies just proves that Star Wars is actually extremely limited and they just should have left the three original movies alone?

Because I'm VERY much in that camp right now.

Eh. It's a wholesome family movie with powerful, universal themes. It brings people together.

Sure, the fanboy community is divided, but seriously when is that ever no the case? This is still the type of franchise parents love sharing with their kids, and it has that special resonance because it's literally part of that same story continuum that the parents grew up with.

I'm glad we have Star Wars in the world, especially in these dark times.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

There's a George Lucas element to the proceedings too. He's gone from a pariah to "King George" again in a segment of the fanbase. "Screw Disney for disrespecting George! Prequels forever!"

They are just anti-establishment. Then it was George, now it's the mouse. They fancy themselves the rebels.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

"Critics and box office numbers are on my side! So I win!"

"I belong to angry minority out of touch with critics, the general audience and half the fanbase. LucasFilm wasted their time with these wildly successful movies!!!"

 

[Adhesive Boy]

Your pissing contest over semantics bores me so let's stay on topic.

You claim TLJ got Luke's attributes fundamentally wrong.

But let's actually look at Luke's mindset and pathway following ROTJ.

Luke is very solemn while the ewoks are dancing. He sees the tragedy of Anakin's path and his bittersweet redemption.

Over the next decade Luke fights the remnants of the empire endlessly saving his friends and allies from peril.

Eventually Han and Luke become disenchanted with being cogs in the war machine.

Han goes back into smuggling full time.

Luke while tired of fighting hopes he can bring balance to the force and a lasting peace by restarting the jedi order with a school for young recruits.

Slowly Luke realizes his mistake when his most prized pupil and nephew starts showing signs of becoming the next sith. Luke tries his best many times to bring Ben back to the light but his visions confirm it over and over. Ben will turn evil and kill and subjugate billions across the galaxy.

Luke, in a moment of desperation, considers ending his mistake quickly by killing Ben, a future genocidal monster and dictator.

He stops himself realizing it might save billions but the act is too shameful but Ben feels threatened and follows the path of Vader.

So why wouldn't Luke exile himself at this point?

How is any of this inconsistent with a Luke who is tired of war and tired of the endless cycle of jedi turn sith betrayal?

Because Luke puts others ahead of himself. It doesn't matter if he's tired, although the films haven't given any such impression at the time anyway, the Luke we know would value his family and friends over his own feelings. It's also pretty funny how the Jedi apparently need to go away, but the dark side wielders (whether they are Sith or something else) apparently don't. I guess the Jedi not being infallible and failing to stop everything are worse than the guys that take over the galaxy and kill billions.

Hamill pointed it out well in the Youtube video that was posted. I agree fully with him, and I don't have a big company telling me to stop badmouthing their big money maker so I don't have to add any compromising referendums to my honest opinions.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Jedi don't give up, ok. Explain Yoda.

 

[Adhesive Boy]

Jedi don't give up, ok. Explain Yoda.

It's not a flawless statement but Yoda did at least go away with a plan in mind. Not to mention that he first did give it all in an attempt to save the day before having to flee.

Luke on the other hand did see a new dark lord appear, just like Yoda, and saw that dark lord seduce his Jedi apprentice to the dark side, just like Obi-Wan. They fought as hard as they could, and then had to flee the field to regroup with a new plan. Luke, who's been a more eagerly heroic person than either of the two (in part because he's less wise), just said "F this, I'm going to go cry somewhere where no one will find me and I'll let my sister suffer this instead.".

If Luke was written as even 1% of the hero he was in the OT he'd have fulfilled his death wish by facing Snoke. There he'd either get the death he thought he deserved, or he'd have a chance to make things right.

 

[markjoedelonge]

It's not a flawless statement but Yoda did at least go away with a plan in mind. Not to mention that he first did give it all in an attempt to save the day before having to flee.

Luke on the other hand did see a new dark lord appear, just like Yoda, and saw that dark lord seduce his Jedi apprentice to the dark side, just like Obi-Wan. They fought as hard as they could, and then had to flee the field to regroup with a new plan. Luke, who's been a more eagerly heroic person than either of the two (in part because he's less wise), just said "F this, I'm going to go cry somewhere where no one will find me and I'll let my sister suffer this instead.".

If Luke was written as even 1% of the hero he was in the OT he'd have fulfilled his death wish by facing Snoke. There he'd either get the death he thought he deserved, or he'd have a chance to make things right.

There was also an ongoing Jedi purge in regards to Yoda.

 

[markjoedelonge]

[YT]EIY-PsHrj9A[/YT]

"I said to Rian 'Jedi don't give up'. I mean even if he had a problem he would maybe take a year to regroup, but if he had made a mistake, he would try to right that wrong. So right there, we had a fundamental difference. But it's not my story anymore, it's someone else's story and Rian needed me to be a certain way to make the ending effective."

 

[Mjölnir]

There was also an ongoing Jedi purge in regards to Yoda.

Yes, it was very much go hide or die, and the purge must be more devastating than failing one person.

 

[titansupes]

Obi-Wan and Yoda were two of the most wanted men in the galaxy. All their brethren had been wiped out, evil was in charge of their government. They knew that Luke represented a chance for the Jedi to live again, for someone to defeat the Sith.

Obi-Wan went to Tatooine to give Luke to loving people and stayed (on a barren world he couldn't stand) to watch over and protect him for 19 years. He also used that time to commune with the Force and learn about maintaining his spirit after death.

Yoda, who took the brunt of the Jedi Order's failure on his shoulders, was reflecting on all that went wrong, trying to become more in tune with the will of Force (remember, they imply heavily that the Order had lost its way and become complacent and too attached to the whims of government). Though he had his doubts about Luke, he too was waiting for him to be ready.

Luke had a fleeting moment of weakness with Ben. One that pushed Ben off the brink and into darkness, costing him everything he'd built.
Luke blamed himself, and went sought out the long lost First Jedi Temple, so that he can... shut himself off from a galaxy falling further and further into war and despair (his naughty nephew leading the charge). He cut himself off from the Force completely, and stayed hidden so he could... eventually die.
The man who saw the tiniest glimmer of light in Darth Space-Hitler-For-Twenty-Years-And-Killed-Obi-Wan-and-Tortured-Han-And-Leia-And-Chopped-Off-Luke's-Hand Vader... immediately gave up without trying anything else, without using the knowledge in the First Temple to make himself a better Jedi and teacher, without trying to commune with the Force and learn more about the Dark Side within everybody...

I don't know, man. I'm seeing it again within the next week to see if it hits me better the second time but right now... I have a problem with that.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Obi-Wan and Yoda were two of the most wanted men in the galaxy.

They must've been flooded by groupies.

 

[titansupes]

They must've been flooded by groupies.

That little green bastard has a certain charisma, y'know...

 

[Adhesive Boy]

Obi-Wan and Yoda were two of the most wanted men in the galaxy. All their brethren had been wiped out, evil was in charge of their government. They knew that Luke represented a chance for the Jedi to live again, for someone to defeat the Sith.

Obi-Wan went to Tatooine to give Luke to loving people and stayed (on a barren world he couldn't stand) to watch over and protect him for 19 years. He also used that time to commune with the Force and learn about maintaining his spirit after death.

Yoda, who took the brunt of the Jedi Order's failure on his shoulders, was reflecting on all that went wrong, trying to become more in tune with the will of Force (remember, they imply heavily that the Order had lost its way and become complacent and too attached to the whims of government). Though he had his doubts about Luke, he too was waiting for him to be ready.

Luke had a fleeting moment of weakness with Ben. One that pushed Ben off the brink and into darkness, costing him everything he'd built.
Luke blamed himself, and went sought out the long lost First Jedi Temple, so that he can... shut himself off from a galaxy falling further and further into war and despair (his naughty nephew leading the charge). He cut himself off from the Force completely, and stayed hidden so he could... eventually die.
The man who saw the tiniest glimmer of light in Darth Space-Hitler-For-Twenty-Years-And-Killed-Obi-Wan-and-Tortured-Han-And-Leia-And-Chopped-Off-Luke's-Hand Vader... immediately gave up without trying anything else, without using the knowledge in the First Temple to make himself a better Jedi and teacher, without trying to commune with the Force and learn more about the Dark Side within everybody...

I don't know, man. I'm seeing it again within the next week to see if it hits me better the second time but right now... I have a problem with that.

Well laid out. I don't see any of my repeat viewings being able to shake that logic.

 

[BatLobster]

Well don't forget, Kylo does kill most of his students.

I can see the failure hitting Luke hard. His own personal failure with Ben, the guilt of his other students having to pay for that, and just the fact that this cycle seems to keep happening over and over.

That's one of my favorite aspects of TLJ. Luke sees failure in himself, and also in the Jedi as a whole. Luke probably sees the parallel between what happened with him and what happened with the previous Jedi Order and is thinking, "no matter how many times we try to build this, someone will turn and tear it down."

I mean, we knew he was going to be saying "It's time for the Jedi to end" since the first trailer. I thought this movie did a pretty thorough job answering why he felt that way. And I appreciated referencing the PT and the Jedi's failure there. Thought his line about how the Force doesn't belong to the Jedi and to think so is vanity was perfection.

 

[Agent Orange]

Well don't forget, Kylo does kill most of his students.

I can see the failure hitting Luke hard. His own personal failure with Ben, the guilt of his other students having to pay for that, and just the fact that this cycle seems to keep happening over and over.

That's one of my favorite aspects of TLJ. Luke sees failure in himself, and also in the Jedi as a whole. Luke probably sees the parallel between what happened with him and what happened with the previous Jedi Order and is thinking, "no matter how many times we try to build this, someone will turn and tear it down."

I mean, we knew he was going to be saying "It's time for the Jedi to end" since the first trailer. I thought this movie did a pretty thorough job answering why he felt that way. And I appreciated referencing the PT and the Jedi's failure there. Thought his line about how the Force doesn't belong to the Jedi and to think so is vanity was perfection.

The most beautiful and succinct description of the Force since Yoda's in Empire.

 

[Another_Fool]

There's a George Lucas element to the proceedings too. He's gone from a pariah to "King George" again in a segment of the fanbase. "Screw Disney for disrespecting George! Prequels forever!"

The only people constantly apologizing for the prequels were the obsessed, entitled fanboy types. The critical and audience response was mixed. This time it's the exact opposite.

I resent this generalization. I actually like the prequels, especially ROTS, and I love The Last Jedi. If you paid better attention the people getting upset about things like Luke and etc are also big Original Trilogy fans who hate the prequels.

 

[SomeOldGuy]

Thought this was an interesting take.

http://tosche-station.net/what-they-grow-beyond-luke-skywalker-the-force-and-true-mastery/

 

[C. Lee]

To me....Luke got tired of it all. It happens. It's like, his trying to live up to the galaxy's expectations of what he should do wore him down. It's like the expectations that some fans put upon him. They expect him to be perfect.....but he is human. Yes, he has some special powers that most people don't have....but those powers have their "dark" side....they constantly pull him towards evil. That must be a great burden to endure.

 

[ludovica]

To me....Luke got tired of it all. It happens. It's like, his trying to live up to the galaxy's expectations of what he should do wore him down. It's like the expectations that some fans put upon him. They expect him to be perfect.....but he is human. Yes, he has some special powers that most people don't have....but those powers have their "dark" side....they constantly pull him towards evil. That must be a great burden to endure.

I agree, it's as simple as that: he's not perfect, in-universe. I understand that it will take a bit for some fans to get comfortable with that.

 

[titansupes]

Well don't forget, Kylo does kill most of his students.

I can see the failure hitting Luke hard. His own personal failure with Ben, the guilt of his other students having to pay for that, and just the fact that this cycle seems to keep happening over and over.

That's one of my favorite aspects of TLJ. Luke sees failure in himself, and also in the Jedi as a whole. Luke probably sees the parallel between what happened with him and what happened with the previous Jedi Order and is thinking, "no matter how many times we try to build this, someone will turn and tear it down."

I mean, we knew he was going to be saying "It's time for the Jedi to end" since the first trailer. I thought this movie did a pretty thorough job answering why he felt that way. And I appreciated referencing the PT and the Jedi's failure there. Thought his line about how the Force doesn't belong to the Jedi and to think so is vanity was perfection.

I know, that's what I meant by "costing him everything he'd built." But between everything we know about him, his behaviour toward Vader and his general demeanour-- I can't fathom Luke still not trying to bring his own nephew back.

From TFA, we knew Kylo killed the other students. We knew that Luke blamed himself and walked away. But, we also knew that he went searching for the First Jedi Temple... Why? We find out in this one that he simply went there to die. Other than the fact it's secluded, why seek out that specific place?

We'd assumed that it had some special meaning-- that it was some nexus of the Force, that it held secret knowledge of the Jedi history that would fundamentally change the way Luke views the whole thing. They even teased that in the trailer! With the push-in on the bookshelf, the close-up of Luke's hand touching one... Then the big "Jedi to end" line. And then it turns out that not only was the Temple itself not particularly relevant ( Why would someone who wants nothing to do with the Jedi anymore go to their birthplace? Plenty of other secluded worlds in the galaxy)... But it also turns out that Luke didn't even read the books!

Seems like a big waste of a set-up to me.

 

[ludovica]

Because Luke puts others ahead of himself. It doesn't matter if he's tired, although the films haven't given any such impression at the time anyway, the Luke we know would value his family and friends over his own feelings. It's also pretty funny how the Jedi apparently need to go away, but the dark side wielders (whether they are Sith or something else) apparently don't. I guess the Jedi not being infallible and failing to stop everything are worse than the guys that take over the galaxy and kill billions.

Hamill pointed it out well in the Youtube video that was posted. I agree fully with him, and I don't have a big company telling me to stop badmouthing their big money maker so I don't have to add any compromising referendums to my honest opinions.

It's not a flawless statement but Yoda did at least go away with a plan in mind. Not to mention that he first did give it all in an attempt to save the day before having to flee.

Luke on the other hand did see a new dark lord appear, just like Yoda, and saw that dark lord seduce his Jedi apprentice to the dark side, just like Obi-Wan. They fought as hard as they could, and then had to flee the field to regroup with a new plan. Luke, who's been a more eagerly heroic person than either of the two (in part because he's less wise), just said "F this, I'm going to go cry somewhere where no one will find me and I'll let my sister suffer this instead.".

If Luke was written as even 1% of the hero he was in the OT he'd have fulfilled his death wish by facing Snoke. There he'd either get the death he thought he deserved, or he'd have a chance to make things right.

As I see it, when Luke removed the Light Side from the playing field, he expected in the long term the Dark Side to weaken, until the point where non Force sensitive people would be masters of their destiny and the fate of the galaxy.
Yin and Yang and stuff. The path of non resistance.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Well don't forget, Kylo does kill most of his students.

I can see the failure hitting Luke hard. His own personal failure with Ben, the guilt of his other students having to pay for that, and just the fact that this cycle seems to keep happening over and over.

That's one of my favorite aspects of TLJ. Luke sees failure in himself, and also in the Jedi as a whole. Luke probably sees the parallel between what happened with him and what happened with the previous Jedi Order and is thinking, "no matter how many times we try to build this, someone will turn and tear it down."

I mean, we knew he was going to be saying "It's time for the Jedi to end" since the first trailer. I thought this movie did a pretty thorough job answering why he felt that way. And I appreciated referencing the PT and the Jedi's failure there. Thought his line about how the Force doesn't belong to the Jedi and to think so is vanity was perfection.

Well said.

The thing that never occurred to Luke was the fact that the force would need to recalibrate once he created the jedi order.

Let's be honest. Without any speed bumps the new jedi order might've maintained peace and prosperity throughout the galaxy for centuries.

But the force requires balance, not necessarily justice, peace and family.

If that means your loved ones betray you and your holy temple is burned to the ground, your extended family of students are massacred, and your beloved star pupil/nephew entrusted to you by your closest friends and family becomes a genocidal dicator due to your negligence then so be it.

Luke would be an idiot to try and "fix" the force when clearly there was nothing he could do without being completely sabatoged again and again by an uncaring force that recalibrates in the most cold hearted ways on any given sunday.