The Last Jedi Luke Skywalker's role in "The Last Jedi": Did you like it?

[Brian Braddock]

After that I could see Luke dying around the corner but how did you guys not get emotional during the binary sunset with William's score and Luke in deep reflection???

My thoughts exactly. I thought it.was beautifully done and had massive resonance with me. So much so that I did choke up a bit.

 

[Leenie]

That's because they faked his death with the hologram crap, and then they really killed him. Even if you were invested with this version of Luke, it's a really stupid decision. Why pretend to kill him only to really kill him? Ugh.

Boom.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

People actually thought Luke was going to die with the torpedoes?

Really?

That would've been the weirdest way to end the movie.

 

[Brian Braddock]

I resent this generalization. I actually like the prequels, especially ROTS, and I love The Last Jedi. If you paid better attention the people getting upset about things like Luke and etc are also big Original Trilogy fans who hate the prequels.

I guess I'm the exception then? I'm a big Original Trilogy fan who hates the prequels that loved TLJ.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I guess the mental projection and binary sunset death was overkill for some people.

I loved all of it.

One of the best jedi standoffs and eventual deaths in the series by far.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I guess I'm the exception then? I'm a big Original Trilogy fan who hates the prequels that loved TLJ.

I'm another exception, lol.

 

[Sithborg]

That's because they faked his death with the hologram crap, and then they really killed him. Even if you were invested with this version of Luke, it's a really stupid decision. Why pretend to kill him only to really kill him? Ugh.

EDIT: I see titansupes beat me to it haha.

In the version where Luke is actually there, it is Kylo killing him. And being victorious.

In the version we got in the film, it was Luke knowingly sacrificing himself (see Kylo's comment at the first Force Skype). And even more importantly, it denies Kylo the victory he craves. Just another thing to make him even more unstable. Which I hope really happens in IX, where Kylo is miserable and lashing out at everything.

 

[writer0327]

The fake-outs and the way it was visualised just didn't let it land for me. I like the projection scene and LOVE the death scene, but they didn't belong back-to-back.

If not back-to-back, how? I can't imagine after all of that, he goes into his hut, lays down and dies? I see what you mean, you want his victory to linger a bit, but it seems like there's no better way to have those two scenes without something in between, like a final good bye to Leia, which he gave before.

 

[writer0327]

I guess I'm the exception then? I'm a big Original Trilogy fan who hates the prequels that loved TLJ.

Count me in that category as well!

 

[Leenie]

People actually thought Luke was going to die with the torpedoes?

Really?

That would've been the weirdest way to end the movie.

I thought the entire thing was one bad decision after another.

Luke survives the torpedoes (when everyone else thinks he's dead), which is a badass moment that immediately gets undercut with a "lightsaber fight" which reveals that Luke isn't really there.

Then Luke still dies anyway, despite not actually being there. Leia, without any sort of force training that we know of, can freaking survive floating in space ... But Luke does a projection of himself and THAT kills him? The movie can't even keep up with its own logic on what the Force is capable of doing.

I think it's incredibly lame. Even the nice moment with Luke looking at the suns with the iconic music ... That immediately gets cheapened when they re-do/pay homage to the scene AGAIN with broom kid.

I mean, more power to ya if you loved it; don't let anyone stop you from doing so either. This is just my perspective.

 

[ludovica]

The thing that never occurred to Luke was the fact that the force would need to recalibrate once he created the jedi order.

Let's be honest. Without any speed bumps the new jedi order might've maintained peace and prosperity throughout the galaxy for centuries.

But the force requires balance, not necessarily justice, peace and family.

If that means your loved ones betray you and your holy temple is burned to the ground, your extended family of students are massacred, and your beloved star pupil/nephew entrusted to you by your closest friends and family becomes a genocidal dicator due to your negligence then so be it.

Luke would be an idiot to try and "fix" the force when clearly there was nothing he could do without being completely sabatoged again and again by an uncaring force that recalibrates in the most cold hearted ways on any given sunday.

This. People may not like it, that's fair, but now this are more or less the rules in-universe.
Surely they make for better drama than an all powerful Luke.

 

[titansupes]

If not back-to-back, how? I can't imagine after all of that, he goes into his hut, lays down and dies? I see what you mean, you want his victory to linger a bit, but it seems like there's no better way to have those two scenes without something in between, like a final good bye to Leia, which he gave before.

It's not so much the victory lingering, it's the fact that we're not in the emotional state to invest in Luke Skywalker's death scene, because it begins immediately after a fake death scene that screams "He's going to live, you guys!" Such a bizarre choice.

I don't know what could've gone between. Something needed to be different, though.

About that Luke and Leia reunion scene, though-- Man, I dig that. Would've been better if I knew what the hell those dice were (I do now), but that's such a good scene, along with the wink to Threepio and the cowering Resistance soldiers watching him stride out to face the First Order. Now THAT was a good emotional build-up.

 

[Agent Orange]

People actually thought Luke was going to die with the torpedoes?

Really?

That would've been the weirdest way to end the movie.

I've had tussles with fans who argue that

Spoiler

Leia should have died in space. Really? You would have been fine with Carrie going out like that? That would have really pissed me off.

Leia tapping into the Force to save her life (feat of strength in a moment of crisis) is one of the stranger moments in the movie (and I'll bet that Carrie had input on it) but I'm glad that she didn't die there. That might have ruined the movie for me.

Leia's weakened state following her experience there is just another example of the old cast passing the torch. "What are you looking at me for? Follow him!"

 

[Leenie]

In the version where Luke is actually there, it is Kylo killing him. And being victorious.

In the version we got in the film, it was Luke knowingly sacrificing himself (see Kylo's comment at the first Force Skype). And even more importantly, it denies Kylo the victory he craves. Just another thing to make him even more unstable. Which I hope really happens in IX, where Kylo is miserable and lashing out at everything.

As someone who hates the movie, this is hands down the best point I've heard in favor of how things played out at the end.

I still think that Luke's characterization was mishandled tremendously, and I would not have minded if Kylo had struck him down (because that would mean Luke was "owning up" to his mistakes), but I understand why one wouldn't want Kylo to have that "victory."

 

[ludovica]

I guess I'm the exception then? I'm a big Original Trilogy fan who hates the prequels that loved TLJ.

We are more numerous than it seems.

Then Luke still dies anyway, despite not actually being there. Leia, without any sort of force training that we know of, can freaking survive floating in space ... But Luke does a projection of himself and THAT kills him? The movie can't even keep up with its own logic on what the Force is capable of doing.

The two things are not really related: how do we measure the Force "cost"?
It's what the writer chooses, no real use debating it.
Besides, Luke fades into the Force because his role in the galaxy has been fullfilled, exhaustion is not really the reason IMO.

He finally brought balance to the Force.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

What Leia did and what Luke did are of such different magnitudes that I don't think there is even a comparison. One was simply the Force protecting a person and applying a power we know the Jedi have in a unique but in my mind understandable way. The other given the distance and what was accomplished is on another level.

 

[Leenie]

The two things are not really related: how do we measure the Force "cost"?
It's what the writer chooses, no real use debating it.
Besides, Luke fades into the Force because his role in the galaxy has been fullfilled, exhaustion is not really the reason IMO.

He finally brought balance to the Force.

If the way things played out was Luke fulfilling his purpose and bringing balance ... Then consider me underwhelmed and unimpressed.

I don't mind the concept of an old and jaded Luke Skywalker; I just don't think the movie played it out properly at all. He was a jerk literally up until he showed up at the end (with a poor explanation as to why, in my opinion), and even then, he wasn't really there at the end. I saw it as him phoning it in; doing the bare minimum.

The film had even set up Luke's redemption story with his X-Wing in the water. Oh. But wait. The X-Wing was there ONLY as fanservice, right? I don't care about references or fanservice in a movie if nothing cool is done with them. Ah well. Can't fix or change it now. It is what it is.

 

[titansupes]

We are more numerous than it seems.



The two things are not really related: how do we measure the Force "cost"?
It's what the writer chooses, no real use debating it.
Besides, Luke fades into the Force because his role in the galaxy has been fullfilled, exhaustion is not really the reason IMO.

He finally brought balance to the Force.

They set-up that sustained Force Projection can kill someone during Rey and Kylo's first talk.

Luke didn't bring balance to the Force. He allowed the Rebels (ugh) to fight another day and the story of how he did it gave hope to people around the galaxy.

 

[Leenie]

What Leia did and what Luke did are of such different magnitudes that I don't think there is even a comparison. One was simply the Force protecting a person and applying a power we know the Jedi have in a unique but in my mind understandable way. The other given the distance and what was accomplished is on another level.

Surviving in the vacuum of space seems like a pretty darn huge deal to me. Especially to someone who has no training (that we know of)?

No Jedi should die in space from this point forward, I guess ...

 

[pkwy22]

Obi-Wan and Yoda were two of the most wanted men in the galaxy. All their brethren had been wiped out, evil was in charge of their government. They knew that Luke represented a chance for the Jedi to live again, for someone to defeat the Sith.

Obi-Wan went to Tatooine to give Luke to loving people and stayed (on a barren world he couldn't stand) to watch over and protect him for 19 years. He also used that time to commune with the Force and learn about maintaining his spirit after death.

Yoda, who took the brunt of the Jedi Order's failure on his shoulders, was reflecting on all that went wrong, trying to become more in tune with the will of Force (remember, they imply heavily that the Order had lost its way and become complacent and too attached to the whims of government). Though he had his doubts about Luke, he too was waiting for him to be ready.

Luke had a fleeting moment of weakness with Ben. One that pushed Ben off the brink and into darkness, costing him everything he'd built.
Luke blamed himself, and went sought out the long lost First Jedi Temple, so that he can... shut himself off from a galaxy falling further and further into war and despair (his naughty nephew leading the charge). He cut himself off from the Force completely, and stayed hidden so he could... eventually die.
The man who saw the tiniest glimmer of light in Darth Space-Hitler-For-Twenty-Years-And-Killed-Obi-Wan-and-Tortured-Han-And-Leia-And-Chopped-Off-Luke's-Hand Vader... immediately gave up without trying anything else, without using the knowledge in the First Temple to make himself a better Jedi and teacher, without trying to commune with the Force and learn more about the Dark Side within everybody...

I don't know, man. I'm seeing it again within the next week to see if it hits me better the second time but right now... I have a problem with that.

Well said, couldn't agree more. Seeing it again this weekend to see "how it hits me" the second time.

Also, the episodic saga (Episodes I-IX) is the Skywalker saga, like it or not. So now, you either end the Skywalker saga (legacy and bloodline) with the death of Kylo Ren as a villian in IX, or he turns back to the light rehashing the redemption theme (for the 3rd time now).
I guess they could pull off a satisfying finale to all 3 trilogies after what transpired in VIII, but it's not likely. At least not to this life-long fan.

 

[Sithborg]

As someone who hates the movie, this is hands down the best point I've heard in favor of how things played out at the end.

I still think that Luke's characterization was mishandled tremendously, and I would not have minded if Kylo had struck him down (because that would mean Luke was "owning up" to his mistakes), but I understand why one wouldn't want Kylo to have that "victory."

Thanks.

All of the stuff with Luke was why I was emotionally unbalanced by the film, even though I loved it with my first watch. I completely understand those that don't like it. But the more I think about it, the more I love it.

It also kind of is a support for Rose's view. Save what you love (Leia, the Rebels), not fight what you hate (Kylo Ren). Which is something I really want to be incorporated more into Star Wars.

 

[ludovica]

If the way things played out was Luke fulfilling his purpose and bringing balance ... Then consider me underwhelmed and unimpressed.

I don't mind the concept of an old and jaded Luke Skywalker; I just don't think the movie played it out properly at all. He was a jerk literally up until he showed up at the end (with a poor explanation as to why, in my opinion), and even then, he wasn't really there at the end. I saw it as him phoning it in; doing the bare minimum.

The film had even set up Luke's redemption story with his X-Wing in the water. Oh. But wait. The X-Wing was there ONLY as fanservice, right? I don't care about references or fanservice in a movie if nothing cool is done with them. Ah well. Can't fix or change it now. It is what it is.

As I said, it's fine not liking it, sorry for you though.
But there are also no right or wrong directions where to take the franchise and Luke or the Force.
That's where the powers that be were confident to take it, to me is on par with "I'm your father", not everyone was enthused back in the day but in time people came around.
Or just made their peace with it.
Here's hoping Episode IX somehow gives a satisfying resolution to both sets of fans.

I wouldn't call the X-Wing fanservice, more one misdirection of many, the movie is full of them.

They set-up that sustained Force Projection can kill someone during Rey and Kylo's first talk.

Luke didn't bring balance to the Force. He allowed the Rebels (ugh) to fight another day and the story of how he did it gave hope to people around the galaxy.

IMO it is voluntarily open to interpretation why Luke fades out. You are assuming the most obvious explanation to be the only one.

Likewise with the balance of the Force. He effectively killed the old ways of the Jedi.
Rey may become a Jedi in name but she will have to make up her own rules.
Kylo also is not really a Sith.
The old religion is dead. The Force is not.
Time to move past the manichean dichotomy or even the Grey Jedi concept.

At least until Abrams doesn't undo everything.
I hope not though.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Surviving in the vacuum of space seems like a pretty darn huge deal to me. Especially to someone who has no training (that we know of)?

No Jedi should die in space from this point forward, I guess ...

Theologically speaking, you could argue The Force, the fundamental and underlying power of the universe wasn't done with Leia yet.

 

[ludovica]

It also kind of is a support for Rose's view. Save what you love (Leia, the Rebels), not fight what you hate (Kylo Ren). Which is something I really want to be incorporated more into Star Wars.

Very well put.
A more "feminine" point of view should always have been at the core of the Jedi outlook.

 

[titansupes]

IMO it is voluntarily open to interpretation why Luke fades out. You are assuming the most obvious explanation to be the only one.

It's the set-up the movie tells us. "Are you doing this? No, no. The strain would kill you". I don't see how much interpretation you can do with that.

Likewise with the balance of the Force. He effectively killed the old ways of the Jedi.
Rey may become a Jedi in name but she will have to make up her own rules.
Kylo also is not really a Sith.
The old religion is dead. The Force is not.
Time to move past the manichean dichotomy or even the Grey Jedi concept.

Eh, I don't know. Rey has the Jedi Texts hidden on the Falcon, so she'll get a lot from them (If she can be bothered to, y'know, read them). That means she already has more to go on than Luke did at the end of RotJ, and his Order seems to have ended up pretty similar to a small scale version of the previous one, minus the government relationship.

If Rey starts a new Order, I hope it's completely different. As Luke's should have been. If we wanted to get really crazy, I even have an idea for a new name to replace Jedi...

Very well put.
A more "feminine" point of view should always have been at the core of the Jedi outlook.

"Don't destroy what you hate, save what you love". That's Luke's whole thing in RotJ. Which is a big reason we assumed he wouldn't fall into the same traps as the old Order did.