The Last Jedi Luke Skywalker's role in "The Last Jedi": Did you like it?

[MessiahDecoy123]

Exactly. This Luke is a human Luke. One prone to failings of character - even if they are just fleeting. That’s like all the rest of us. This felt way more interesting to me than if we had just got ‘Obi Wan Lukobi’ in this film. I like your use of the word shame here to describe Luke’s feelings. That’s an uncomfortable emotion to feel, and to see your heroes feel, which may account for some of the distaste around how they handled Luke’s character.

TBF, Luke uses the term "shame" during his flashback.

He describes only being left with shame and something else after considering killing Ben.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Really? Luke nearly succumbs to the dark side in ROTJ. Only Vader stops him killing The Emperor with his light sabre. He fears Ben will become like Palpatine. Luke isn’t beyond striking down an unarmed person if they’re a threat.

Why have folks decide Luke is whiter than white, and always in control, when he never was?

Is there no difference between a young man (and Luke's nephew, by the way), who hasn't committed any evil deeds, even if fascinated by dark side, and the freaking Emperor, who's responsible for endless suffering and death? Not to mention, it's Luke, who already converted Darth freaking Vader.

 

[FunkMiller]

Is there no difference between a young man (and Luke's nephew, by the way), who hasn't committed any evil deeds, even if fascinated by dark side, and the freaking Emperor, who's responsible for endless suffering and death? Not to mention, it's Luke, who already converted Darth freaking Vader.

Nah. Both a**holes. t:

Seriously though... my point was more that Luke has been seen to be prone to unwise or inadvisable knee-jerk actions as a character throughout the movies. He’s a human being with emotions, and the inevitable flaws and weaknesses that come with them. And he saw the same evil rising in Ben that he saw in Palpatine. I’m more than prepared to accept that he could have had this moment of supreme human weakness, before stepping back from the brink. After all, The Emperor saw the darkness in him... and that darkness has never really gone away.

I guess I just don’t see Luke’s very momentary desire to kill Ben in a pre-emptive strike as something so completely out of character for him.

It’s not like he planned to murder Ben over an extended period of time, just because he was frightened of his potential power. That would be completely out of character for a beloved fictional hero, now wouldn’t it?

 

[The Riddler]

you guys are all missing the point. luke can be flawed. but there is a difference between being flawed, and being an apathetic coward. the fleeting thought of killing kylo is LESS the problem than the aftermath: that luke abandons his nephew, his sister, his pal han, and the ENTIRE universe. he lets his nephew get corrupted by a mysterious and dangerous power in snoke, and sits idly by as the first order gains prominence.

a momentary lapse in judgment can be explained away -- but luke being a coward and giving up on everyone and everything is a betrayal of the character. johnson clearly wanted to gloss this over as much as possible because it would take a lot of brain power to answer the question: if luke wasn't a coward and isn't dead, how could snoke, kylo, and the first order come to power? a proper answer would have taken writers that cared a lot more about the fidelity of the original characters than apparently johnson and co.

 

[Mjölnir]

Once again, we're getting caught up in words vs action. Kylo says he struggles with light, but his actual actions show a greater tendency towards evil than light. Don't make me quote BB again!!!

Of course his tendency is more towards evil as he is currently a dark side user.

The question was whether Kylo is the most light filled dark sider we've had. Unless you can point to anyone that shows more tendencies to be drawn to the light I'm correct.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Of course his tendency is more towards evil as he is currently a dark side user.

The question was whether Kylo is the most light filled dark sider we've had. Unless you can point to anyone that shows more tendencies to be drawn to the light I'm correct.

To this point, check mark to Anakin. He was an actual war hero who killed the Emperor to save his son. Kylo has done nothing of that scale yet.

 

[OutOfBoose]

you guys are all missing the point. luke can be flawed. but there is a difference between being flawed, and being an apathetic coward. the fleeting thought of killing kylo is LESS the problem than the aftermath: that luke abandons his nephew, his sister, his pal han, and the ENTIRE universe. he lets his nephew get corrupted by a mysterious and dangerous power in snoke, and sits idly by as the first order gains prominence.

a momentary lapse in judgment can be explained away -- but luke being a coward and giving up on everyone and everything is a betrayal of the character. johnson clearly wanted to gloss this over as much as possible because it would take a lot of brain power to answer the question: if luke wasn't a coward and isn't dead, how could snoke, kylo, and the first order come to power? a proper answer would have taken writers that cared a lot more about the fidelity of the original characters than apparently johnson and co.

This is an even bigger issue with Luke's treatment for me.

 

[Enriquespy]

It's a story about growth trough failure, all his actions where on line with what he had gone trough, and who he is.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Nah. Both a**holes. t:

Seriously though... my point was more that Luke has been seen to be prone to unwise or inadvisable knee-jerk actions as a character throughout the movies. He’s a human being with emotions, and the inevitable flaws and weaknesses that come with them. And he saw the same evil rising in Ben that he saw in Palpatine. I’m more than prepared to accept that he could have had this moment of supreme human weakness, before stepping back from the brink. After all, The Emperor saw the darkness in him... and that darkness has never really gone away.

I guess I just don’t see Luke’s very momentary desire to kill Ben in a pre-emptive strike as something so completely out of character for him.

It’s not like he planned to murder Ben over an extended period of time, just because he was frightened of his potential power. That would be completely out of character for a beloved fictional hero, now wouldn’t it?

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy that scene of Luke standing over a sleeping kid with an ignited light saber. It just looked absurd and comparisons with Darth Vader or Palpatine don't make it any less absurd. I don't know what they needed to do to make it work for me. Maybe there was a way. But like stated above, there's even MUCH bigger issue with Luke in TFA and TLJ.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Luke isn't a coward.

As far as he's concerned, after Ben turns evil, the jedi order is just an overglorified Sith training camp.

And if you think about Vader, it's kinda true.

 

[Mjölnir]

To this point, check mark to Anakin. He was an actual war hero who killed the Emperor to save his son. Kylo has done nothing of that scale yet.

That was the point of redemption, that was not hinted at anywhere before. We've seen inside Vader's head in canon books, he has none of the attraction to the light that Kylo has.

Vader needed to see his son dying to get in touch with his light, Kylo feels it even when sitting alone in a room. That of course doesn't mean that Kylo will turn to the light, that's all up to the whims of the writer rather than a purely logical move.

 

[writer0327]

you guys are all missing the point. luke can be flawed. but there is a difference between being flawed, and being an apathetic coward. the fleeting thought of killing kylo is LESS the problem than the aftermath: that luke abandons his nephew, his sister, his pal han, and the ENTIRE universe. he lets his nephew get corrupted by a mysterious and dangerous power in snoke, and sits idly by as the first order gains prominence.

a momentary lapse in judgment can be explained away -- but luke being a coward and giving up on everyone and everything is a betrayal of the character. johnson clearly wanted to gloss this over as much as possible because it would take a lot of brain power to answer the question: if luke wasn't a coward and isn't dead, how could snoke, kylo, and the first order come to power? a proper answer would have taken writers that cared a lot more about the fidelity of the original characters than apparently johnson and co.

Luke saw Jedi involvement as a negative on the entire process. He was taught the Jedi way, and wasn't willing to let go of the teachings. He had no other solution but to put distance between the Jedi and this whole mess , to essentially run away from his problem.

 

[writer0327]

You know how they say some people can't see the forest for the trees? They can't see the big picture because they're focused on the little details. It seems that Luke has the opposite problem. Luke was so focused on the big picture, the grander scope and scheme, that he was missing the small important details that would ultimately shape the larger, greater picture. That's what Yoda was trying to get Luke to understand. He was always with his mind on the horizon, on the future. Never on where he was and what he was doing.

Luke was so focused on preventing another rise of darkness, stopping the greater grand plan of Snoke, that he missed out on dealing with young Ben Solo, and preventing him from falling to the dark side.

 

[Enriquespy]

Luke isn't a coward.

As far as he's concerned, after Ben turns evil, the jedi order is just an overglorified Sith training camp.

And if you think about Vader, it's kinda true.

This.

There have been awesome Jedi, but the Jedi Order in itself has always been a bit of a mess.

Luke was thinking on more things that just hiding and letting the first order be because he had a bad disciple. He was ensuring the end of a self grandiosed system that created Siths trough ages.

 

[FunkMiller]

you guys are all missing the point. luke can be flawed. but there is a difference between being flawed, and being an apathetic coward. the fleeting thought of killing kylo is LESS the problem than the aftermath: that luke abandons his nephew, his sister, his pal han, and the ENTIRE universe. he lets his nephew get corrupted by a mysterious and dangerous power in snoke, and sits idly by as the first order gains prominence.

a momentary lapse in judgment can be explained away -- but luke being a coward and giving up on everyone and everything is a betrayal of the character. johnson clearly wanted to gloss this over as much as possible because it would take a lot of brain power to answer the question: if luke wasn't a coward and isn't dead, how could snoke, kylo, and the first order come to power? a proper answer would have taken writers that cared a lot more about the fidelity of the original characters than apparently johnson and co.

Still sits fine with me, to be honest. Fleeing is the act of a man ashamed of his failure. Luke - in his hubris - believed he could kickstart a new Jedi order, only for it to crumble thanks to his own weaknesses. The issue is whether you’re ready to accept this flawed and rather pathetic Luke Skywalker or not. I was, because it pays off so beautifully at the end.

 

[danoyse]

Still sits fine with me, to be honest. Fleeing is the act of a man ashamed of his failure. Luke - in his hubris - believed he could kickstart a new Jedi order, only for it to crumble thanks to his own weaknesses. The issue is whether you’re ready to accept this flawed and rather pathetic Luke Skywalker or not. I was, because it pays off so beautifully at the end.

A flawed Luke Skywalker is far more fascinating than some super-powered Jedi version who would show up with all of the answers. Who learns anything from that?

It was a little like Han in TFA. He still had a bit of his swagger, but you could see how broken-hearted he was over losing Ben.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

A flawed Luke Skywalker is far more fascinating than some super-powered Jedi version who would show up with all of the answers. Who learns anything from that?

It was a little like Han in TFA. He still had a bit of his swagger, but you could see how broken-hearted he was over losing Ben.

"God will not look you over for medals degrees or diplomas, but for scars." - Elbert Hubbard

 

[Venomfan]

All I wanted from these movies was a scene of Luke absolutely wrecking some fools with a light saber and force powers. I kept waiting for him to show up and save the day in the last movie and made my peace with knowing we'd get it in the next movie [BLACKOUT]when he walks out alone I was like o snap here it is. Then when I saw it was going to be a 1v1 I was like crap, with Snoke dead Luke will probably lose this. Then the reveal, awesome but now I have to wait again to see him wreck. Then dead. Luke dying ruins the movie for me. His final scene would have been an epic closing scene for episode 9[/BLACKOUT]

 

[BatLobster]

You know how they say some people can't see the forest for the trees? They can't see the big picture because they're focused on the little details. It seems that Luke has the opposite problem. Luke was so focused on the big picture, the grander scope and scheme, that he was missing the small important details that would ultimately shape the larger, greater picture. That's what Yoda was trying to get Luke to understand. He was always with his mind on the horizon, on the future. Never on where he was and what he was doing.

Luke was so focused on preventing another rise of darkness, stopping the greater grand plan of Snoke, that he missed out on dealing with young Ben Solo, and preventing him from falling to the dark side.

That's a GREAT take. I hadn't even thought of it that way, but I think that's a pretty spot-on and valid lens to view Luke's failure through.


That's the thing with Luke in this film. He was completely different, but he was still Luke. I never once felt like they turned him into a different character. A changed man, as time does, but it still just felt believable to me that this is where we were 30 years later. I think it also probably has something to do with the fact that Hamill just IS Luke, and I think he knocked his performance out of the park.

 

[Enriquespy]

His performance was great indeed.

 

[moviedoors]

Of course his tendency is more towards evil as he is currently a dark side user.

The question was whether Kylo is the most light filled dark sider we've had. Unless you can point to anyone that shows more tendencies to be drawn to the light I'm correct.

I love the way you're exploring this light-side/dark-side ratio as though it were actually quantifiable.

 

[Limonade]

That's a GREAT take. I hadn't even thought of it that way, but I think that's a pretty spot-on and valid lens to view Luke's failure through.


That's the thing with Luke in this film. He was completely different, but he was still Luke. I never once felt like they turned him into a different character. A changed man, as time does, but it still just felt believable to me that this is where we were 30 years later. I think it also probably has something to do with the fact that Hamill just IS Luke, and I think he knocked his performance out of the park.

That's where I disagree. Should it have taken 20-30 years to resolve this Ben Solo dilemma? I mean all that time. Never once using the Force, but spent reading books of old scriptures. Had it not dawn on him in his time of solitude?

It felt all contrived for me.

Also, following the events of what happened to Ben Solo and Luke's Temple... Luke decided not to call upon Yoda or Obi Wan for some advice or demand answers?

Like I thought there was stages to grief here...

 

[BatLobster]

That's where I disagree. Should it have taken 20-30 years to resolve this Ben Solo dilemma? I mean all that time. Never once using the Force, but spent reading books of old scriptures. Had it not dawn on him in his time of solitude?

It felt all contrived for me.

Might wanna check your math there. Ben didn't turn 30 years ago haha. According to canon it was more like 6 years prior to TFA.

This is definitely "Bruce Wayne would never retire for 8 years!" all over again.

Luckily for me, that trope doesn't bother me much as long as the film sells me on it.

 

[Limonade]

Might wanna check your math there. Ben didn't turn 30 years ago haha. According to canon it was more like 6 years prior to TFA.

This is definitely "Bruce Wayne would never retire for 8 years!" all over again.

Luckily for me, that trope doesn't bother me much as long as the film sells me on it.

Ah. Didn't know that. I figured Kylo Ren and Rey was in their mid 20. And even then, I'm over shooting it by 10 years just in case. I don't know what's canon and what's not in this universe anymore.

 

[FeedOnATreeFrog]

This is definitely "Bruce Wayne would never retire for 8 years!" all over again.

Or Xavier in DOFP (though I don't remember seeing anyone complain about that).