The Last Jedi Luke Skywalker's role in "The Last Jedi": Did you like it?

[Verick808]

I'm not going to say I'm done with Star Wars, because I'm definitely not, but I can say I'm not really looking forward IX. Despite the flaws in TFA it left me with a feeling of anticipation for the next film.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You managed to get that TLJ fans are the worst kind of fans from my post? That kind of dramatic interpretation disqualifies you from all complaints about being condescending. Pot meet kettle indeed.

Which poster have i gotten personal about?

You also seem to be talking about people with zero relevance to this forum while I'm talking about the people here that tried to explain away and diminish negative opinions. You're free to show me which people that post alt-right posts etc, ut if you can't your ramblings are as relevant and productive as looking at what movies criminals like and try to make a point about it. I'm not interested in such nonsense so take that to someone else.

You're free to think what you want but I think breaking fundamental attributes of a character just so you can get the story where you want it is incredibly lazy.

I don't want force gods either, I'm fine with the OT level of Jedi.

Your pissing contest over semantics bores me so let's stay on topic.

You claim TLJ got Luke's attributes fundamentally wrong.

But let's actually look at Luke's mindset and pathway following ROTJ.

Luke is very solemn while the ewoks are dancing. He sees the tragedy of Anakin's path and his bittersweet redemption.

Over the next decade Luke fights the remnants of the empire endlessly saving his friends and allies from peril.

Eventually Han and Luke become disenchanted with being cogs in the war machine.

Han goes back into smuggling full time.

Luke while tired of fighting hopes he can bring balance to the force and a lasting peace by restarting the jedi order with a school for young recruits.

Slowly Luke realizes his mistake when his most prized pupil and nephew starts showing signs of becoming the next sith. Luke tries his best many times to bring Ben back to the light but his visions confirm it over and over. Ben will turn evil and kill and subjugate billions across the galaxy.

Luke, in a moment of desperation, considers ending his mistake quickly by killing Ben, a future genocidal monster and dictator.

He stops himself realizing it might save billions but the act is too shameful but Ben feels threatened and follows the path of Vader.

So why wouldn't Luke exile himself at this point?

How is any of this inconsistent with a Luke who is tired of war and tired of the endless cycle of jedi turn sith betrayal?

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I still don't think the narrative is sitting all that well with Hamill. They should have taken his criticisms on board... He makes it clear he's not the lead, so its not like he was simply pushing for more screentime. This says it all - ''Jake Skywalker'':

[YT]EIY-PsHrj9A[/YT]

The funny thing is the only difference between Hamill and LucasFilm's approach is the amount of time it takes for Luke to redeem himself.

Hamill's Luke needs a year break.

LucasFilm's Luke needs over a decade.

Both are fair takes on the character but I happen to agree with LucasFilm that over a decade break makes more sense considering Luke has dealing with these war and jedi tragedies most of his adult life.

Of course he 's not just going to brush off losing his jedi school and family and dooming the galaxy. How many times do you need to see history repeat itself in such a personally tragic way before you need to distance yourself?

 

[random_havoc]

Your pissing contest over semantics bores me so let's stay on topic.

You claim TLJ got Luke's attributes fundamentally wrong.

But let's actually look at Luke's mindset and pathway following ROTJ.

Luke is very solemn while the ewoks are dancing. He sees the tragedy of Anakin's path and his bittersweet redemption.

Over the next decade Luke fights the remnants of the empire endlessly saving his friends and allies from peril.

Eventually Han and Luke become disenchanted with being cogs in the war machine.

Han goes back into smuggling full time.

Luke while tired of fighting hopes he can bring balance to the force and a lasting peace by restarting the jedi order with a school for young recruits.

Slowly Luke realizes his mistake when his most prized pupil and nephew starts showing signs of becoming the next sith. Luke tries his best many times to bring Ben back to the light but his visions confirm it over and over. Ben will turn evil and kill and subjugate billions across the galaxy.

Luke, in a moment of desperation, considers ending his mistake quickly by killing Ben, a future genocidal monster and dictator.

He stops himself realizing it might save billions but the act is too shameful but Ben feels threatened and follows the path of Vader.

So why wouldn't Luke exile himself at this point?

How is any of this inconsistent with a Luke who is tired of war and tired of the endless cycle of jedi turn sith betrayal?

Yeah, it's a flawless corner to write Luke into to make him a loser who doesn't leave the island for the entire new trilogy! It's as great a corner to write him into as when Snyder made Superman a sullen dark character who snapped a guys neck, and that was a resounding success that was beloved by audiences!

Sorry, don't mean to be a jerk to you here, but writing a beloved heroic character into being a loser sucks. Whether you can justify making him into a loser or not, it still sucks. And btw, the fact that you have to make up half of that justification yourself because it's not actually explained in the films is also a contributing factor to why people don't like the film.
Btw, Hamill hated the writing for Luke to btw, he said it interviews you can look up on Youtube. I agree with Hamill, even at a low point, Luke is the kind of guy to not give up hope, let alone one who will go sit on an island and let all of his friends get slaughtered

 

[FunkMiller]

Luke is the kind of guy to not give up hope, let alone one who will go sit on an island and let all of his friends get slaughtered

That’s exactly what his two mentors did though. They both ran and hid when they’d failed to stop the empire. Their failures condemned them. Why is it so odd that Luke decides to become a recluse in the same way? Ever think that exactly why TFA and TLJ depict him that way? Because he’s only following what Ben and Yoda did?

 

[BatLobster]

At some point we're going to have to accept that based on the terms this trilogy set up, our old heroes failed.

Peace did not last.

Han and Leia failed as parents.

Luke failed as a Jedi teacher. All these things were right there from the beginning in TFA.

These are extremely tough pills to swallow, I understand, but it kind of has to go there if you're really making this the generational saga it's meant to be with each generation trying to right the wrongs of the last. It gives the saga more weight.

And hey, just like there are people who ignored the prequels and refused to consider it canon, anyone who is offended by this direction can always stick with 1-6 or 4-6 as their head canon and just take the rest with a grain of salt.

 

[Spider-Fan]

At some point we're going to have to accept that based on the terms this trilogy set up, our old heroes failed.

Peace did not last.

Han and Leia failed as parents.

Luke failed as a Jedi teacher. All things were right there from the beginning in TFA.

These are extremely tough pills to swallow, I understand, but it kind of has to go there if you're really making this the generational saga it's meant to be and carry the weight that comes with that.

They didn't outright fail. They defeated the Empire. Peace didn't last forever, but that still is not failure. As for where their future's went, let's say Harry Potter quit being a wizard and got addicted to crack. Did he not still defeat Voldemort? Other dark wizards will come, and Mr. Potter won't always be the guy fighting them. Particularly if he is on crack like in my scenario. But nothing can take away from his earlier achievement. Same here. They're flawed characters, failed in certain regards sure, but still are heroes and stopped the Empire.

 

[FunkMiller]

At some point we're going to have to accept that based on the terms this trilogy set up, our old heroes failed.

Peace did not last.

Han and Leia failed as parents.

Luke failed as a Jedi teacher. All things were right there from the beginning in TFA.

These are extremely tough pills to swallow, I understand, but it kind of has to go there if you're really making this the generational saga it's meant to be and carry the weight that comes with that.

That’s right. By definition, if we are to have more Star Wars movies, it means that the heroes of the old trilogy must ultimately fail. That everything they did must eventually come to naught, otherwise there would be peace in the galaxy, and no story for a third trilogy. They brought peace for a while, but peace never lasts.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Yeah, it's a flawless corner to write Luke into to make him a loser who doesn't leave the island for the entire new trilogy! It's as great a corner to write him into as when Snyder made Superman a sullen dark character who snapped a guys neck, and that was a resounding success that was beloved by audiences!

Sorry, don't mean to be a jerk to you here, but writing a beloved heroic character into being a loser sucks. Whether you can justify making him into a loser or not, it still sucks. And btw, the fact that you have to make up half of that justification yourself because it's not actually explained in the films is also a contributing factor to why people don't like the film.
Btw, Hamill hated the writing for Luke to btw, he said it interviews you can look up on Youtube. I agree with Hamill, even at a low point, Luke is the kind of guy to not give up hope, let alone one who will go sit on an island and let all of his friends get slaughtered

It's not a corner.

It's the traditional path of elderly jedi and launches a character arch that ends with redemption, like his father before him.

It's kinda perfect the more I think about it.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

At some point we're going to have to accept that based on the terms this trilogy set up, our old heroes failed.

Peace did not last.

Han and Leia failed as parents.

Luke failed as a Jedi teacher. All these things were right there from the beginning in TFA.

These are extremely tough pills to swallow, I understand, but it kind of has to go there if you're really making this the generational saga it's meant to be with each generation trying to right the wrongs of the last. It gives the saga more weight.

And hey, just like there are people who ignored the prequels and refused to consider it canon, anyone who is offended by this direction can always stick with 1-6 or 4-6 as their head canon and just take the rest with a grain of salt.

Cyclical war not only make better fiction and movie trilogies it's also usually a grim reality.

Also you nailed it. Failure and redemption (I might add) give the sequel trilogy much more weight.

What do we gain from carbon copies of our heroes fighting the same enemies but with higher power levels?

 

[BatLobster]

They didn't outright fail. They defeated the Empire. Peace didn't last forever, but that still is not failure. As for where their future's went, let's say Harry Potter quit being a wizard and got addicted to crack. Did he not still defeat Voldemort? Other dark wizards will come, and Mr. Potter won't always be the guy fighting them. Particularly if he is on crack like in my scenario. But nothing can take away from his earlier achievement. Same here. They're flawed characters, failed in certain regards sure, but still are heroes and stopped the Empire.

Well of course. I didn't mean to imply that they were failures outright. The events of the OT still matter, and as far as the resistance/rebellion goes Han and Leia will always be heroes/legends and Luke has mythic god-like status, especially after TLJ. Rey's awe and wonder when hearing about Luke or first interacting with Han says it all.

Their failures are more personal, with regards to Ben.

 

[random_havoc]

Geez, it's like I hear the people walking out of Phantom Menace saying how great it was all over again.

 

[Brian Braddock]

The Phantom Menace and The Last Jedi are about as alike as chalk and cheese though.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

The Phantom Menace and The Last Jedi are about as alike as chalk and cheese though.

Lmao.

I probably read his post several times trying to figure out the comparison.

 

[random_havoc]

The Phantom Menace and The Last Jedi are about as alike as chalk and cheese though.

You go ahead and tell yourself that while a ton of people hate it and like Phantom Menace TLJ has a bunch of flaws that a bunch of fans don't want to see/admit because "but it Star Wars!"

 

[Brian Braddock]

Ha, sure sure. Whatever.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

My favorite part of The Last Jedi is when Jar Jar farts during Luke's standoff in front of obvious green screen.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Comparing TLJ to TPM is outlandish hyperbole. The comparison is foolish and has no basis. Sorry, just wrong

 

[BatLobster]

You go ahead and tell yourself that while a ton of people hate it and like Phantom Menace TLJ has a bunch of flaws that a bunch of fans don't want to see/admit because "but it Star Wars!"

Haha, I'm something of a prequel defender. They aren't good films, and they definitely made some serious missteps, but I appreciate what George was trying to do with them and how they deepened the mythos. I always give points for ambition (which TLJ happens to have a ton of itself).

Anyways, I like TLJ, but hey, after all these years it'd be funny for something else to become the new whipping boy of the franchise and the prequels don't have to take all the heat all the time.

I'm being honest when I say I think TLJ is good, maybe even great movie. I know the difference between when I'm just giving something a pass because it's Star Wars, or when something feels really earned and pulls me in on its own merits. TLJ did the latter for me. The Star Wars fan in me was feeling downright abused by a lot of it, but by the end when I realized the story it was telling it was a "hurts so good" kinda thing.

 

[Brian Braddock]

My favorite part of The Last Jedi is when Jar Jar farts during Luke's standoff in front of obvious green screen.

Nah, surely has to be Boss Nass doing that stupid, slobbering mouth wobble thing to Snoke. Good times.

 

[Leenie]

At some point we're going to have to accept that based on the terms this trilogy set up, our old heroes failed.

Peace did not last.

Han and Leia failed as parents.

Luke failed as a Jedi teacher. All these things were right there from the beginning in TFA.

These are extremely tough pills to swallow, I understand, but it kind of has to go there if you're really making this the generational saga it's meant to be with each generation trying to right the wrongs of the last. It gives the saga more weight.

And hey, just like there are people who ignored the prequels and refused to consider it canon, anyone who is offended by this direction can always stick with 1-6 or 4-6 as their head canon and just take the rest with a grain of salt.

Maybe the very existence of these new movies just proves that Star Wars is actually extremely limited and they just should have left the three original movies alone?

Because I'm VERY much in that camp right now.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

They didn't outright fail. They defeated the Empire. Peace didn't last forever, but that still is not failure. As for where their future's went, let's say Harry Potter quit being a wizard and got addicted to crack. Did he not still defeat Voldemort? Other dark wizards will come, and Mr. Potter won't always be the guy fighting them. Particularly if he is on crack like in my scenario. But nothing can take away from his earlier achievement. Same here. They're flawed characters, failed in certain regards sure, but still are heroes and stopped the Empire.

(lmao, sorry but the set up was too good.)

 

[Limonade]

Maybe the very existence of these new movies just proves that Star Wars is actually extremely limited and they just should have left the three original movies alone?

Because I'm VERY much in that camp right now.

Same.

Especially if one trilogy strives to follow the hero's journey and the next trilogy makes his hero's journey inconsequential as he became the very thing he journeyed away from... mediocrity.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Maybe the very existence of these new movies just proves that Star Wars is actually extremely limited and they just should have left the three original movies alone?

Because I'm VERY much in that camp right now.

You know if they never made any more Skywalker sage films the fans would riot.

LucasFilm can't win...









....outside of having tremendous critical and box office success.

 

[Leenie]

You know if they never made any more Skywalker sage films the fans would riot.

LucasFilm can't win...









....outside of having tremendous critical and box office success.

"Critics and box office numbers are on my side! So I win!"