Comics Marc Guggenheim's latest explanation for why some folks hate Brand New Day

[kguillou]

Oh boy, Dan Slott if your reading this, now would be a really really good time to post something lol.

 

[Blader5489]

Oh boy, Dan Slott if your reading this, now would be a really really good time to post something lol.

Why? Slott shouldn't be held accountable for something Guggenheim says.

 

[carnageehw]

Why? Slott shouldn't be held accountable for something Guggenheim says.

But as someone who sits on the same side (re: BND is good) it would be interesting to hear his thoughts.

Imagine if you will, TmoB coming into a thread after you've posted

 

[Doc Destruction]

Meh... Guggenheim's a bit of an oddball anyway, so oddball statements are par for the course.

But he is right when he states that people who think the last 20 years didn't happen are wrong...

That doesn't make it any less stupid.

 

[Venom 1988]

Christ, while I agree with what he says about some naysayers who might have the info mixed up about what is or isn't canon, that last statement definitly did not help his case

 

[MaskedManJRK]

Ah, nothing like the awkward and spiteful odor of homophobia to REALLY make me completely annoyed about this whole situation with the character.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Oh boy, Dan Slott if your reading this, now would be a really really good time to post something lol.

Huh? For what?

 

[kguillou]

It would just be nice to hear his input on this situation since he and Guggenheim are on the same side, that's all.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

Huh? For what?

They probably want him to just step in and say something like, "...Yeah, that was a stupid thing he said. That's on him, not me," and jump back out again.

 

[Galactus]

The undoing of the marriage is not what upset me. What upset me is how Marvel keeps doing things in an unnecessarily complicated way in the name of trying to shock and surprise the readers. To begin with, they should never had let Spidey let his identity be officially known in Civil War; that way they could have skipped the entire, and IMO completely meaningless, plotline of Back in Black and OMD and they would have Spidey as he is now; an unregistrated hero with his secret identity still intact. As for the marriage... I wouldn't have had any problems with Peter and M.J. simply divorce if it is so damn important to have Peter single. Instead they had to complicate things with this OMD-crap, so now you have a situation with a lot of new questions: Why didn't they get married? How come that Harry Osborn is alive? And I have a feeling that when they start answering these questions all you get is more boring plots, more "shocks" and "surprises".

 

[shinlyle]

The undoing of the marriage is not what upset me. What upset me is how Marvel keeps doing things in an unnecessarily complicated way in the name of trying to shock and surprise the readers. To begin with, they should never had let Spidey let his identity be officially known in Civil War; that way they could have skipped the entire, and IMO completely meaningless, plotline of Back in Black and OMD and they would have Spidey as he is now; an unregistrated hero with his secret identity still intact. As for the marriage... I wouldn't have had any problems with Peter and M.J. simply divorce if it is so damn important to have Peter single. Instead they had to complicate things with this OMD-crap, so now you have a situation with a lot of new questions: Why didn't they get married? How come that Harry Osborn is alive? And I have a feeling that when they start answering these questions all you get is more boring plots, more "shocks" and "surprises".

Preach on.

The dissolution of the marriage would be a bitter pill to swallow, regardless, but it would have went down a little more easily if they hadn't said, "Here's the new world! We changed everything, but nothing you've read over the past few years has changed, even though we just told you that it did! Wait...no we didn't! Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!!"

They could have simply had MJ die/Peter and MJ divorce, and, while I would have hated it, I wouldn't have left as quickly as I did, either. The way they did this, I can't take them seriously. Who's to say they won't simply change things back in a year or so, say it was lal part of their plan, and divide the fanbase even further?

 

[carnageehw]

Why didn't they get married? How come that Harry Osborn is alive? And I have a feeling that when they start answering these questions all you get is more boring plots, more "shocks" and "surprises".

The main reason I think people hate/don't want to read BND is exactlly this.

You actually DO have a ton of things changed in history (if they didn't, they wouldn't keep telling us to wait for answers, right?) and not only that, they skipped a head in story telling. Instead of introducing new characters naturally, they pop Harry back in, pop a roomate in quickly, aunt may is in her old house....

It literally feels like you started watching a complicated TV show halfway through a season. This is bad leadership, because Spidey is a comic where many, if not all fans know of Spider-man's history, and the character is that much more enjoyable because of it. Now, it's spider-man in name only, because all the characters in the book, don't have the backstory, or have unanswered questions which makes the key thing about Spider-man, being identifyable....impossible.

 

[stillanerd]

So, with MArvel's logic now...

If you LIKE the reboot you ARE AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE.

Iff you don't like the reboot you are FOR GAY MARRAIGE.

Just peachy.

STILLNERD, I hope you posted this on some of the other forums too, so fans can know what and how marvel is twisting this, getting hate mail about it (Their reboot), and what they are saying to justify it and twist it.

Oh, I have, although others have posted Guggenheim's comments before I did. So it is making the rounds.

And let's say that Guggenheim was attempting to make a reverse of his argument, that if you like the reboot then you're for gay marriage and if you don't like the reboot then you're against gay marriage. It doesn't make his argument any less fallacious or make him sound any less of an ass.

 

[moraldeficiency]

So does this make me pro-gay rights, pro-equal rights or pro freedom? I'm just curious.

 

[kguillou]

So THAT's why they ressurected Harry, him and peter are become lovers now. It all makes sense, Brand New Gay indeed. Whatever, as long as we get to see MJ and felicia hook up, thats fine by me. lol t:

 

[stillanerd]

An exchange between Marc Guggenheim clarifying things to a blogger and the blogger's response:

Jeez, how long did it take you to come up with a way to turn my pro-gay marriage comment into an example of homophobia. Wow. Cynical much? Angry much?

Best,
Marc Guggenheim

Sorry, you misspoke. You said "how long did it take [me] to come up with a way to turn [your] pro-gay marriage comment into an example of homophobia", when you clearly meant to say "how long did it take everyone to come up with a way to turn [your] pro-gay marriage comment into an example of homophobia."

As for cynical and angry... yes. But then, I would say the one-two punch of OMD and BND have given me ample reason to be both. After all, you are stating by the act of marketing these comics to me (a young comic reader in my early twenties) that I would enjoy them and relate to the character of Spider-Man. A character who you have turned into a schmuck, someone who fears commitment, abhors responsibility, still lives with his mother at the ripe old age of 28, and is of course willing to deal with the Devil. Moreover, now you imply that your target audience also must be against gay marriage. Hmm... who is it that tries to hang onto their youth at all costs, fears meaningful relationships with women, but at the same time unconvincingly berates homosexuality? Congratulations, you've turned Spider-Man, the original comic book audience identification figure, into a frat boy. And here I was remembering the days when Flash Thompson was Spidey's nemesis, not his target audience.

And as for you... well, how silly of me to expect a professional writer, someone paid to convey ideas with an eloquence above that of the common man, to be able to express himself with the directness that God gives the common hungering animal. I probably should've used my psychic powers to divine your gay-friendly intent, rather than taken you at your extremely homophobic word. Or perhaps your subtext was "don't buy what I write," in which case message received, loud and clear.

http://seriousfic.livejournal.com/12...694725#t694725

 

[moraldeficiency]

So if Gugg is pro-gay marriage and ASM boycotters are pro-gay marriage, then is gugg anti-BND?

 

[farmernudie]

WOw....just wow.

I can't wait to go to my LCBS and see how many others either like or dislike gay marriages based on their spider-man comic buying tendencies.

Way to promote the Spidey Reboot...!! This is going to help sales!!!!

Since I am not buying it, at least I am for gay marriage, unlike all those bad people buying it who oppose it. Good Grief.

To read spidey comics is tough now...you have to pretend a lot of things, and ignore lots of things, AND take into account that statement you are making socially by not buying it. Sheesh.

Too bad DC didn't think of insulting their fans and labeling THEIR customers gay marriage haters/lovers...terrorists, kitten killers for picking up or not picking up every Crisis or reboot they do.

Where is Joe or anyone CONDEMNING such stupidity.

Once this is all said and done, when someone writes looking back at this reboot period, (that won't last), just like they've looked back at time periods during clone saga....some one can write about the SPIDER-MAN GAY MARRIAGE TIME PERIOD WHEN FANS WHERE CONNECTED TO SENSATIVE SOCIAL ISSUES BY MARVEL BASED ON IF THEY SUPPORTED THEIR REBOOT OR NOT.

So, I wonder what this makes people who SELL Spider-man comics???

Thanks MArvel for tying Spidey to the devil and also tying us customers S(stupidly) into controversial social issues. you are making this reboot into a laughing stock.

 

[Venom 1988]

So if Gugg is pro-gay marriage and ASM boycotters are pro-gay marriage, then is gugg anti-BND?

 

[stillanerd]

So if Gugg is pro-gay marriage and ASM boycotters are pro-gay marriage, then is gugg anti-BND?

Hence the problem with using an argument that states "If A, then B; if not A, then not B."

 

[farmernudie]

And as for you... well, how silly of me to expect a professional writer, someone paid to convey ideas with an eloquence above that of the common man, to be able to express himself with the directness that God gives the common hungering animal. I probably should've used my psychic powers to divine your gay-friendly intent, rather than taken you at your extremely homophobic word. Or perhaps your subtext was "don't buy what I write," in which case message received, loud and clear.

Very well put.

I feel much better now, than ever, that I am not buying this.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Hence the problem with using an argument that states "If A, then B; if not A, then not B."

Ah a logic puzzle, and you're right it isn't the best way to go. Extrapolating further on that would conclude that anti OMD boycotters believe in equal rights, freedom, naked women and casual fridays while current ASM buyers are racist homophobe facists with tiny sexual organs. And that can't be true in every case, right?

 

[Themanofbat]

I like how this thread's title "Marc Guggenheim's latest explanation for why some folks hate Brand New Day..." is not really Marc Guggenheim's explanation for why some folks hate Brand New Day.

It's merely an attitude that he has about the people that don't like it... not an explanation.

Hey stillanerd, for someone who is quick to judge somebody for what they have said/written, you should be extra careful on how you present something yourself... otherwise, you might find yourself in the same boat.

 

[Themanofbat]

That doesn't make it any less stupid.

Hey Doc, if you think it's stupid, then don't read it.

Once you've stopped reading it, do everybody a favour and stop criticizing what you don't read. It'll make the SHH message boards a nicer place to visit.

Cheers...

 

[moraldeficiency]

I like how this thread's title "Marc Guggenheim's latest explanation for why some folks hate Brand New Day..." is not really Marc Guggenheim's explanation for why some folks hate Brand New Day.

It's merely an attitude that he has about the people that don't like it... not an explanation.

Hey stillanerd, for someone who is quick to judge somebody for what they have said/written, you should be extra careful on how you present something yourself... otherwise, you might find yourself in the same boat.

Shouldn't you be out burning a cross to get rid of some interracial gay couple somewhere?